Introduction

[hoolamonster]

Hello all,

Wow lots of info on here, great knowledge base. This is my second post, my 1st was in the wanted section. I know greedy, but I can't help it ; )

I'm a newb to Hi-Fi. I learn somewhat quick and I do deal with ohms and circuits but more in test equipment and verification end of things. Anyhow, there's some deeper understanding of the physics.

I've been through some of the early stages looking for what I want, listening really. I do not possess any equipment worth mention but hopefully that all changes soon.

Being more budgeted yet wanting something nice I had a few instore demo's locally. I had my eyes on a pair of Linn Majik 140s. TBO I was going to budget on the amp and go emotiva. However, all of this is changing.

I was in a demo of the 140s for the second time and ask the salesperson to throw on some Floyd (after the usual demo songs he probably plays for everyone). I was shocked, in a few ways. One, I never head the recording played so well, then I'm saying to myself "something is very off putting". Long story short after going aktiv on a 6100 the issue went away. The 90w DSM couldn't keep up. It was basically like listen to someone play the drums and totally fall off beat, just makes your head snap. So in this pause I've started to rethink the compromise in amp purchase.

I didn't realize Linn amps had a decent second hand market for people like me.

So that's where I am now, looking for a 4200. I'm still thinking about the 140s but also really itching to demo SF Venere S. I think I can justify the jump on the looks alone.

Anyhow, Happy New Year to everyone! Looking forward to learning more.

[ChrBea]

Welcome hoolamonster,
Linn amps are fine with the 140, I used them myself, but if you really want to enjoy those speakers, I highly recommend the Lejonklou Tundra (Stereo or 2x Mono depending on your budget).

For the M140, I had the following upgrade route:
1) MDSM -- M140 [ok to start with, but not really engaging]
2) 4200 -- M140 (single-amped) [at the time I thought that was nearly perfect]
3) 4200 -- M140 (bi-amped) [more powerful, but musically not so engaging]
4) 4200 -- M140 (single-amped again)
5) Tundra Stereo -- M140 [wow, big upgrade from the 4200]
6) Tundra Monos -- M140 [now the 140s can show their full musical potential]

Don't forget to order the aluminium stands for the M140. They are a big upgrade.

[Charlie1]

Like ChrBea, I also prefer my old 4200/140s single-amped (and single-wired too). So unless you plan to take 140s aktiv via a second 4200 then I personally can't see the benefit of those extra two channels.

I too found the steel bases well worthwhile, despite their cost.

The new Lejonklou integrated amp plus a separate Linn streamer is worth considering as well. Don't be put off by the power output figures.

Generally best to invest most in your source, then next the amp, and finally speakers.

Maybe don't rule out your dealer entirely. They get traded in items and can sell on their dem kit after a specific time period (1 year for Linn I think).

It's hard to help much more with only a vague idea of your budget.

[u252agz]

Generally best to invest most in your source, then next the amp, and finally speakers.

.

The above is the best advice I got when new to the forum. Preamp before Power Amp.

The second best was to optimize the installation - speaker positioning, interconnects , speaker cables etc etc

I agree with Charlie I that the Boazu integrated Lejonklou amp is worth thinking about - but if you have the funds after the source is optimized, than either stereo or mono Sagatun and Tundra preamp/amps.

Good luck and enjoy the journey to Nirvana.

[tokenbrit]

Welcome.
I used to use a 4200/D, both single & bi-wired, and bi-amped. I sold it once I heard a Tundra Stereo, which has since been improved to 2.0 with further improvement to Tarandus available soon, if not already. I haven't heard a Boazu myself, but I have heard the undeniable musical benefit of Lejonklou pre-amps, and would strongly suggest that you listen to Renew DS with Boazu vs DSM & 4200. Speakers follow source & amps - the Majiks will thank you for feeding them the best signal you can afford, and putting your budget to source & (Lejonklou) amp(s) ahead of speakers will reward you musically over time.

[hoolamonster]

I'm the last person who needs more options. I'll read, research, test endlessly!

Going with a Lejonklou would require me to buy before I try. The limited information on them is highly positive from what I've read. The PCB also looks very well built/assembled. I can tell you right now, no SMT machine is rejecting resistors that might be the difference of a few ohms.

I do stream a lot, and also listen to records. However, the KDS is certainly out off my price range. I was thinking more along the lines of a sneaky or majik. Are any of you using your equipment with TVs and such? That would require a DSM or some other source run through a DAC?

The reason I was thinking of purchasing the 4200 was to bi-amp if I went with the Sonus Faber. My understanding is the bi-amp does help these speakers. I'm waiting for them to come back in the shop here locally to put them against the M140s.

Where would you say the tundra 2 is A/B vs Linn 140s aktiv?

[Charlie1]

I do stream a lot, and also listen to records. However, the KDS is certainly out off my price range. I was thinking more along the lines of a sneaky or majik. Are any of you using your equipment with TVs and such? That would require a DSM or some other source run through a DAC?

I presume you're not referring to the cheaper Sneaky DS because it doesn't include any inputs so you couldn't connect your turntable or AV.

Many folks use the MDSM with their AV but just be aware that the early models (initially called MDS-i) didn't have HDMI connectivity. All Majik variants were factory fitted with Dynamik PSU that came out several years ago and is very worthwhile.

Linn improved the MDSM clocking architecture about 18 months ago which is said to be a good step forward (http://news.linn.co.uk/news/2015/03/eve ... r-home.php). I'm not sure if this improvement made it into the SDSM, or not. The Majik includes more inputs as well though.

Linn also added Exakt outputs but opinion is divided on Exakt, especially analogue users. Best listen yourself if Exakt is something you're interested in.

The reason I was thinking of purchasing the 4200 was to bi-amp if I went with the Sonus Faber. My understanding is the bi-amp does help these speakers. I'm waiting for them to come back in the shop here locally to put them against the M140s.

It might make them sound more powerful and improve some elements of their presentation (such as quieter background, tighter bass), but does it make the music more enjoyable? Perhaps check this out yourself because the folks making this recommendation might not have picked up on this, if it's the same with SF speakers as 140s.

Where would you say the tundra 2 is A/B vs Linn 140s aktiv?

Generally, most folks prefer passive with a better amp to aktiv with a lesser amp so I'd expect Tundra/140s to outperform 4200/140s but not compared myself.

Going with a Lejonklou would require me to buy before I try.

If you don't have an in-country or nearby dealer then pretty sure you can return the item like any online purchase. At least you can do a home dem then. Of course, I presume you'd have to pay shipping if you wanted to return the item.

[u252agz]

However, the KDS is certainly out off my price range. I was thinking more along the lines of a sneaky or majik.

If your thinking of a sneaky / majik source - a Majik DSM is supposed to be an excellent all in one solution and one of Linns best products.

If you are aiming higher - Tokenbrit's suggestion of KRDS( v 1 or v2) and the Lejonklou Integrated amp would be going from the majik level DSM ( good as it is ) to klimax level, for the same sort of budget as a sneaky/ 4200.

Enjoy the music whichever path you take.

[Charlie1]

Tokenbrit's suggestion of KRDS( v 1 or v2) and the Lejonklou Integrated amp would be going from the majik level DSM ( good as it is ) to klimax level, for the same sort of budget as a sneaky/ 4200.

I'm showing my lack of knowledge in all matters AV now, but would there be any particular advantage to using HDMI or Toslink/SPIDIF instead of RCAs, other than simplified cabling?

Reason I ask is that I presume the Boazu and Sagatun only include RCA connectivity and hoolamonster wants to connect his 'TV and such'.

[u252agz]

Not sure - I am using the bedroom TVs Output into Boazu, set on 80 volume and it is pretty good using TV volume control.

If one needs HDMI, KRDSM/1 has a good Digital Volume Control ( I think same as my KDS/2, but not in the same league as Sagatun monos and I presume Boazu) and could be paired up with a Tundra stereo 2.

So many options - must be quite exciting trying out and choosing.

[Music Lover]

If one needs HDMI, KRDSM/1 has a good Digital Volume Control ( I think same as my KDS/2, but not in the same league as Sagatun monos and I presume Boazu) and could be paired up with a Tundra stereo 2.

The Digital Volume Control is a lot worse imho.
But a KRDSM/1 or any other Renew model, can be used as interim.
It's good to start somewhere and then build from that.

And Welcome hoolamonster!

[hoolamonster]

You know, I don't run 5.1+ big fronts are fine for me. I can always run my AVR analog if need be. The AVR has some sort of circuit bypass, shut everything off, shorten the signal path mode. It has a ESS Saber DAC, Not the best but not the worst for an AVR.

I could always use the the audio out into preamp, its just not super efficient @ 200 mV/1.2 kOhms. Ill have to play around with it.

[hoolamonster]

Not sure - I am using the bedroom TVs Output into Boazu, set on 80 volume and it is pretty good using TV volume control.

If one needs HDMI, KRDSM/1 has a good Digital Volume Control ( I think same as my KDS/2, but not in the same league as Sagatun monos and I presume Boazu) and could be paired up with a Tundra stereo 2.

So many options - must be quite exciting trying out and choosing.

It is! I wish this was my bedroom set up haha. Meanwhile I'm just working on my main, you are fortunate!

I have a demo booked for Thursday. I went over my thoughts with the local HiFi shop yesterday. He's gathering the Linn amp and some other used gear (that hopefully wont kill my bank account) as well as the 140s and Venere S. Should be a fun day ; )

[lejonklou]

Have fun hoolamonster!

And if your dealer needs some Lejonklou gear for the comparisons, please don't hesitate to contact me.

[hoolamonster]

Have fun hoolamonster!

And if your dealer needs some Lejonklou gear for the comparisons, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Wouldn't that be awesome!

[Ozzzy189]

Hi there and welcome.
I originally wrote a review a long time ago comparing a 4200 to the tundra 1.2 and I think Chris at HiddenSystems still has a copy, or maybe even Fredrik.
It's a complete destruction of the linn amp in EVERY single aspect in my opinion. Far more musical, engaging and emotive with a real connection to the tune. Foot tappingly fantastic. The fact that there's been numerous upgrades to the tundra since, (the 4200 hasn't had anything major to my knowledge) can only widen the gap.
You owe it to yourself as a music lover to hear one. Amazing, especially when you consider the journey from idea, through manufacturing to fruition.
I'm in the north of the UK and you'd be welcome to hear mine if you weren't so far away.....
Oh well.
Good luck with your hifi journey.
Regards
Daniel (Ozzzy)

[maffe]

When one of my Klouts died I decided to replace them with newer amplification. My mind was set on the 2200/D, got one from the local dealer for testing it home. I was going to buy it, but then a pair of used Tundra mono 2 become available and I "had no choice" other ten getting them. I had listen to Tundras a few times before and the played good. So there I was with a 2200/D and Tundras home at the same time and it was not a fair fight for the 2200 just wanting to return to the minor league!
Now I have my Tarandus upgrade and the monos just made a huge leap in all aspects, could not even hope for this level of performance in an upgrade :)

So I would not look twice at a 4200 if I could get a Tundra stereo/mono or maybe the Boazu if your on a budget. Insanely good for it´s price tag.

[hoolamonster]

Well I have good and bad news. After a few hours of A/B, moving things around, actually moving into a reference room things started to separate.

We started in a pretty small room with lots of equipment. As I said earlier I was looking at the Venere S vs Majik 140s. Music was served up by a Linn DS into McIntosh amps.

In this room I felt like the 140s kept pulling away. They defiantly need more power than 100 series DSM @90w. I find the 140s very revealing, the base is tight and the mid/highs are really great on these, it's hard to deny. I still find the 140s active better than passive, none the less either form still great.

The Venere S set was bi-amped. The flooring was very thick carpet and the port on these speakers faces the ground. It seemed as if the low end was muddy. I felt the carpet being so thick and padded it wasn't allowing the port to breath right, almost creating a vacuum. After extensive back and forth the rep single amped the SF and the low end tightened right up. At this point they began to pull away from the Linn 140s. I didn't really need to switch back to them.

From everything I've read (which isn't a ton on these speakers) is that the drivers are set up to be bi-amped (hence the 4200). We moved them out into the reference room and he hooked them up to the top of line Mc gear. Obviously not a real world application for my humble audio quest. But wow did these speakers really extend. The space was larger too and the sound stretched across every inch of it.

My mind was made up on the SF Venere S. I felt the toe tapping more. I enjoyed the warmth of the sound they produce and instead of analyzing the music (like I did with the 140s), I just spaced out into head-bob land.

The rep mentioned he had used equipment prior to us getting into the music. So I asked him about it after. He had a few Linn pieces, including the 4200, and some Mc gear. We went and looked at them, first I had to make sure I could fit a piece of Mc gear in space. We talked price, I figured what the heck its sitting here why not through it on the speakers. My options where 501 mono's and a integrated MA2275.

We put the MA2275 on 4ohms, DS, SF. I pulled the trigger guys. So thats the bad news, for now ill be living with this setup. Im not mad about it at all. It was so smooth, so powerful, huge sound stage. Can you blame me? What are your thoughts?

[Charlie1]

Hi hoolamonster. It's nice to get such a full report back. Interesting to read.

Glad you've found something that gets your foot tapping.

[mrco99]

Hi Hoolamonster,

As long as you're happy with your choice of equipment I can't really read the bad news, so congratulations on your purchase.

Being on a Lejonklou forum, it is off course a pity you weren't able to hear the new Boazu integrated amp for comparison. But you can't judge what you haven't heard so simply enjoy your new setup!

[u252agz]

Sounds like you have a great system there - congratulations.

Nothing better than a serious upgrade or two to really appreciate your music collection - looking forward to the next chapter of your Hi Fi journey.

If it is going to be a new streamer, there may be another Lejonklou product along for you to consider soon, and source upgrades are even more fun than amplifier/speakers.
.

[hoolamonster]

Thank you! I'm super excited.

After this purchase the KDS is out of my $ budget. I've been contemplating a Chord to bridge with my server.

I've been reading the thread about DS from Lejonklou. I have my thoughts about that. I'm not engineer but I did stay at a Holiday inn Express once... There is something special going on here no doubt. It's great to see.

[Music Lover]

Holamonster, congrats!
If you are happy, we are.
Still, pity you didn't demo Boazu o other Lejonklou amps but that is something you can do later on.

Regarding the KDS, source first rules so I suggest you start saving. ;)
KDS is a must have infront of such highend amp/speaker imho.
And skip expensive cables, at least for time being.
Please send a PM for further guidance.

[u252agz]

Having just switched my bedroom sneaky for the downstairs KDS/2 ( with Boazu integrated amp and komponent 110s ) I can vouch for Music lovers advice.

By the way, you will be saving for a much shorter time if you go for KRDS/2.

[u252agz]

Having just switched my bedroom sneaky for the downstairs KDS/2 ( with Boazu integrated amp and komponent 110s ) I can vouch for Music lovers advice.

You will of course have to save for a much shorter time if you go for KRDS/2.!