Sonic speaker preference

[cremona]

yes, speakers affect the sound a lot. (but the musicality the least)
I fully understand that you can get in love with a specific "speaker sound".
Some to such a degree that they are prepared to sacrifice the musicality a bit.

I've been in love with SF speaker design for years and discussed with the Norwegian Linn dealer 2005 regarding SF vs Linn speakers.
He consider Amanti just a little bit less musical/transparent than 242. A great result.
But I'm in love in the Linn active speaker sound

The reason why i chose the cheaper Cremona instead of the amati anniversario or the stradivari was infact because it was more musical.
at the time i bourgt them i diddent know about the tune dem method but i carefully compared new cremona M amati anniversario and orginal cremona in the same room using same familiar amp/source system and it was strangly easy to pick the one out i liked the best.

Im also a beleiver and user of tune dem , but i think some are a bit foundamental about it when it comes to speaker designs.

Just about the least insignifical thing in the world of hifi is what others think sounds best, espicialy if its a dealer that says it.

I abselutly DONT linn speakers and im not the only one, none active the sound like the are broken active the are so overfocused on the tune that the become horrorbly analytical.
I demoed the KLIMAX DS with my own Klimax kontrol through a pair of akurates fullrangers driven with two chakra amps at Scala HIFI gentofte , and it sounded like midfi gear the tune was good but the speakers sounded like the where about to brake and the sound was lean ,cold , grey not very dynamic and and i honestly just feelt getting up and walk out, in my book thats not good hifi no matter have good the tune is.

[Music Lover]

The reason why i chose the cheaper Cremona instead of the amati anniversario or the stradivari was infact because it was more musical.
at the time i bourgt them i diddent know about the tune dem method but i carefully compared new cremona M amati anniversario and orginal cremona in the same room using same familiar amp/source system and it was strangly easy to pick the one out i liked the best.

Did the dealer agree with you?
I.e. the most musical SF is the Cremona?
What does he think of other speakers, from Linn...B&W etc.
I heard Quad ESL 63 a few times with different source/electronics (one LP12 system). Lovely sound as well, less musical than Linn speakers but WHAT nice sound. Still prefer Linn speakers as "stats" are so laid back. No power and slam.
A friend to me has an almost top of the line Linn system and the latest ESL. Just need time for a visit...

Reading your posts, you are deeply in love with the Solo/Cremona combo sound - nothing bad in that as speakers are the less critical component for the musicality.
Next time I pass Copenhagen I let you know. I must hear your system :D

But I bet the Linn speakers you demoed wasn’t installed correctly! Most are not…affecting the sound AND tune a lot!
I heard SO many different speakers over the years and Linn’s 3/4k-array speakers are very close to the best sounding speakers. Most are NOT as musical though…

[cremona]

The reason why i chose the cheaper Cremona instead of the amati anniversario or the stradivari was infact because it was more musical.
at the time i bourgt them i diddent know about the tune dem method but i carefully compared new cremona M amati anniversario and orginal cremona in the same room using same familiar amp/source system and it was strangly easy to pick the one out i liked the best.

Did the dealer agree with you?
I.e. the most musical SF is the Cremona?
What does he think of other speakers, from Linn...B&W etc.
I heard Quad ESL 63 a few times with different source/electronics (one LP12 system). Lovely sound as well, less musical than Linn speakers but WHAT nice sound. Still prefer Linn speakers as "stats" are so laid back. No power and slam.
A friend to me has an almost top of the line Linn system and the latest ESL. Just need time for a visit...

Reading your posts, you are deeply in love with the Solo/Cremona combo sound - nothing bad in that as speakers are the less critical component for the musicality.
Next time I pass Copenhagen I let you know. I must hear your system :D

But I bet the Linn speakers you demoed wasn’t installed correctly! Most are not…affecting the sound AND tune a lot!
I heard SO many different speakers over the years and Linn’s 3/4k-array speakers are very close to the best sounding speakers. Most are NOT as musical though…

The dealer wassent in the shop only a aprentics, and we had some trouble getting sound out of the klimax.
The speakers where not driven activly as far as i could tell .
All my hifi visdom told me that it was the speakers that was holding back , the music seemed compressed and that type of distorsion to it that only a speaker can make.

iM very well aware that i would be embarasing my self to the whole hifi comunity by claming that the sonus faber cremonas with the linn klimax amps and a linn source has somkind of magical synagi going on if it wassnet true .
I was skeptic myself, before but aparantly i wassent the only one that have experinced it and now i have them and the solos i hear it every day.

The hold back for my system right now issent the sneaky DS its my room , its only 15 sq meters because great as the cremonas musical powers are the really need a BIg room to really do there thing.
My sonus faber dealers room where i had the big epifany was 40 sq meters with 6 meter tall seeling.

It sounds amazing here in my littel room but the speakers plays the music in a really deep dynamic and powerfull way and as soon as i turn up the room gets overpowerd.

But i promis you this if you come to copenhagen and you are indeed more then velcome , you will not regreat coming here and hear what all this magic talk is all about.

[vicdiaz]

The loudspeaker can not add quality to what is being expressed in that language any more than your telephone can add quality to your conversation.

I totally aggree with Fred in this aspect. A telephone may be a tonal disaster but it may perform musically better than other "tonal" speakers.

[Music Lover]

The hold back for my system right now issent the sneaky DS its my room , its only 15 sq meters because great as the cremonas musical powers are the really need a BIg room to really do there thing.

No, the room isn't holding back, it's the source.

It sounds amazing here in my littel room but the speakers plays the music in a really deep dynamic and powerfull way and as soon as i turn up the room gets overpowerd.

Overpowered? Do you mean bass boom? If so, that is due to a less than perfect input signal.
Add a Klimax DS/Klimax Kontrol and I promise the issue is gone.
Been there, done that. :D

[Lego]

C'mon give Cremona a break all he is trying to say is he'd rather listen to his Hifi than go to a gig. :?
The speakers are the least important part of the chain Cremona so all the emotion you are experiencing is due to the front end, which is great I wished I liked my aktiv Ninkas half as much as you love your Cremonas.But then I dont like speakers,never will.

[cremona]

Overpowered? Do you mean bass boom? If so, that is due to a less than perfect input signal.
Add a Klimax DS/Klimax Kontrol and I promise the issue is gone.
Been there, done that. :D[/quote]



No not the familar bass boom , bass is tight and deeeeeeeeep, Its more like stageing the monsters of rock outdoor speakers system into a phoneboth.
As staed before the cremonas where not designed for small rooms the designer intensialy diddent want to compromis with enything, not like many moden day speakers that have been EQ`d to not produce surthen frq that will activated surthen unwanted notes.
In a large room with the cremonas when you turn up the volumne the room is filled with music.

I know this is a linn forum and some linn fans fanaticly beleives in the source first aproce and i have been told not to start arguing with linn fanatics because well the are fanatics i like the sound of a linn source and the better it is the better the system sounds, to to say that the room or the speaker has none or very littel influence on the playback compared to different sources is somwhat foolish to say the least .

The problem here is there issent that HUGE difference between sources in modern day digital sources like there was in the old days where the source first pricipel was created , but there is souch a HUGE difference between have moden day speakers sound and act out the music .
And thats why the rest of the real world of music reproduction ano 2008 says that its the speakers that will have the largest impact on the sound in an hifi system not the source..


Just like trying to navigate in a urban city with 30 year old map .

Its a idiotik dissusion because its like jews arguing with palastinians who was there in the first place.

Lest just leave it like that

[Charlie1]

The problem here is there issent that HUGE difference between sources in modern day digital sources like there was in the old days where the source first pricipel was created , but there is souch a HUGE difference between have moden day speakers sound and act out the music .
And thats why the rest of the real world of music reproduction ano 2008 says that its the speakers that will have the largest impact on the sound in an hifi system not the source.

My limited experience is similar in that the difference in 'sound' between various source components is not very great, at least not when my dealer has performed a quick A-B dem. However, I've found that most of my own source upgrades, whilst not improving the 'Hi-Fi' so much, have been the most rewarding.

The Akiva springs to mind for starters in that it made my stereo almost disappear, along with all its impressive sounds, and left me listening to that stuff called music (I hear the KK does a similar thing ). The Ekos SE was also important as I found music more emotive than through the old Ekos2, but again, it didn't improve the 'sound' very much. There are exceptions of course, like the Keel which did tighten up the sound quite a bit, but I think these improvements are rare and was probably more down to the fact that the original sub-chassis was somewhat flawed. Importantly, all these upgrades performed better in Tune Dem than their predecessor.

I don't mean to turn this into an LP12 discussion - it is related (kind of) :? All I'm saying is that despite their small Hi-Fi improvements, source upgrades have a lot more to offer in a way which, I think, is more important. Mind you, if I can ever afford to buy those 242s (I think they sound great by the way), then I may change my mind!

[Music Lover]

Yes, speakers change sound the most - I guess we all agree on that.
But the source change the musicality the most.
So source first is not dead, as long as you refer to musicality.

Conclusion, it fast getting rather expensive if you like both a nice sound and high level of musicality :?

[Azazello]

I know this is a linn forum

This is NOT a Linn forum! I think Lejonklou can agree with me on that...

However, we do think that the most important aspect of a HiFi system is it's abillity to play in tune. Many of us have made tens or even hundreds of comparations between different systems, and to this day, "source-first" is yet to be proven wrong. That has nothing to do with Linn as such, even though Ivor introduced this concept some thirty five years ago.

[Azazello]

to to say that the room or the speaker has none or very littel influence on the playback compared to different sources is somwhat foolish to say the least .

This forum is for those of us that are tired of defending tune-dem or source first. Both of theese constitutes the base for the discussion here. Please read the rules one more time.

[Lego]

I'm sorry Cremona you are dead wrong.What you are saying is this.

'My windows are really dirty ,caked with mud;the weather looks grey outside. I know! I'll get new clean windows.Wow its so sunny outside with these new windows, changing my windows to these Italian ones has changed the weather to sunny and bright,these windows do not only influence the weather,they can make inside feel more like outside better than outside can:BUT it has to be really nice out for the Italian windows to work '

And you call us fanatics

[Azazello]

I'll lock this thread now.