Geddon is gone and a Lingo in its place which I'm much happier with.

This deck finally plays music to my liking.

A = Pre-cirkus black liner (very little wear) / Lingo 1 / steel subchassis / Ekos 2 / Adikt
B = Pre-cirkus black liner / Lingo 1 / steel subchassis / Ekos SE / Krystal

A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xayvsl4jme044 ... 0.MOV?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x8hnsdcg3wp0y ... 9.MOV?dl=0

To my surprice (or maybe not) I slightly prefer the music making of the black Sondek in this comparison.

It is as if the attempt from the oak Sondek with Krystal and EkosSE to get more out of the groove slightly lessen the music making to my ears.

The black Sondek feels more confident not trying too hard..........


I just love the retro look of this system! :-)

Main bearing in black deck has sat idle most of its life so should have less wear but I don't know what difference there is for sure. There's also that Oak plinth too :)

I think there might be something nicer about that opening piano note on the black deck - like its more harmonious or it decays better. I'm listening to the clips too - didn't have time to really get a handle on the Oak deck.

beck wrote: ↑2021-01-06 23:15 It is as if the attempt from the oak Sondek with Krystal and EkosSE to get more out of the groove slightly lessen the music making to my ears...

Could it be that SE/Krystal is a further step away from, less of a match for, and more revealing of the pre-cirkus liner :? Or that things aren't a-ok with the oak plinth :/

I really enjoyed the Ekos 2 to SE upgrade but that was with a Keel so you could be right.

It's a puzzle.

I think I prefer the oak deck slightly more. After the first 10 to 15 seconds it feels as though it starts to pull away from the black deck and settle down into a more harmonious presentation. The chords from about half way through seem more harmonically complete on the oak deck, with more dynamic range. I was wondering if both decks were still wobbling about a bit at the beginning of the recordings?

BUT! I might be falling into my usual trap of thinking that the extra clarity, dynamics and purity of the Krystal allows the “spectral envelope” to be heard easier which gives the impression that it’s more musical. AND! One disagrees with beck at their peril. He’s rarely wrong!

Surprisingly different sound, but not sure there's much between them for tune. There's more to the Oak deck as Spannko described, but it gets a bit exuberant with the Naim/Kan combo, which could be what beck is hearing.
Surprisingly comfortable on the fence... :)

I'm inclined to agree with beck here... though I like both.

Now, not being an LP12 owner myself (and frankly somewhat terrified of becoming one due to what follows) all I know about it is what I've read on this forum. My understanding is that there is a near infinite number of variables and adjustment combinations for fastener torque, orientation of springs etc etc, plinth material and fabrication quality included.

Are we certain everything apart from the plinths is equal between the two decks, adjustment wise?

Spannko wrote: ↑2021-01-07 01:04 I think I prefer the oak deck slightly more. After the first 10 to 15 seconds it feels as though it starts to pull away from the black deck and settle down into a more harmonious presentation. The chords from about half way through seem more harmonically complete on the oak deck, with more dynamic range. I was wondering if both decks were still wobbling about a bit at the beginning of the recordings?

Yeah, could have still been settling. The black deck was already insitu so the Oak had only just been placed there.

tokenbrit wrote: ↑2021-01-07 05:55 but it gets a bit exuberant with the Naim/Kan combo, which could be what beck is hearing.
Surprisingly comfortable on the fence... :)

That was (and slightly still is) a concern of mine - that the SE was designed for the Keel and won't work quite as it should in this pre-Cirkus deck.

OscarH wrote: ↑2021-01-07 09:22 My understanding is that there is a near infinite number of variables and adjustment combinations for fastener torque, orientation of springs etc etc, plinth material and fabrication quality included.

Are we certain everything apart from the plinths is equal between the two decks, adjustment wise?

I think there are some pretty big differences before we get down to torques but I take your point. They were built by the same experienced dealer but he doesn't use torques, except things like the Karousel where Linn mandate it. I wasn't really expecting the Oak deck to sound better anyway as I know it's main bearing has more wear. Mainly, I'm pleased to be able to properly enjoy music on it - it's been a long road with this one. Not sure what it's future is or if it has one but we'll see. The Black deck and Valhalla/Ittok deck aren't going anywhere though and are all I really need.

If I were to take one home -I would choose the Black deck with Valhalla /Ittok.

To my ears, the oak deck is more impressive sound wise, but the Black one plays a better tune.

u252agz wrote: ↑2021-01-07 13:55 If I were to to take on home -I would choose the Black deck with Valhalla /Ittok.

To my ears, the oak deck is more impressive sound wise, but the Black one plays a better tune.

Lingo1, Ekos2, Adikt. ;-)

Spannko wrote: ↑2021-01-07 01:04 BUT! I might be falling into my usual trap of thinking that the extra clarity, dynamics and purity of the Krystal allows the “spectral envelope” to be heard easier which gives the impression that it’s more musical. AND! One disagrees with beck at their peril. He’s rarely wrong!

Sometimes I got a point, sometimes not Spannko! :-)

It would be a boring forum if all discussions ended with someone always being “right” and I hate to be elevated into something I am not.......

Let us all continue to be curious and inspired. It makes for such an interesting forum!

beck wrote: ↑2021-01-07 16:30

Spannko wrote: ↑2021-01-07 01:04 BUT! I might be falling into my usual trap of thinking that the extra clarity, dynamics and purity of the Krystal allows the “spectral envelope” to be heard easier which gives the impression that it’s more musical. AND! One disagrees with beck at their peril. He’s rarely wrong!

Sometimes I got a point, sometimes not Spannko! :-)

It would be a boring forum if all discussions ended with someone always being “right” and I hate to be elevated into something I am not.......

Let us all continue to be curious and inspired. It makes for such an interesting forum!

Having listened to the videos again, but through the iPad placed across the room to try and minimise the HiFi differences, I think you’re right beck (and everyone else, as it happens!). I found myself “listening to” the oak deck, and “listening with” the black deck, and the oak deck appeared to pulling the music apart, whereas the black deck presents the sound more as a coherent whole.

Spannko wrote: ↑2021-01-07 18:59 I found myself “listening to” the oak deck, and “listening with” the black deck, and the oak deck appeared to pulling the music apart, whereas the black deck presents the sound more as a coherent whole.

Such a great way to describe the difference!

beck wrote: ↑2021-01-07 20:09 Such a great way to describe the difference!

Yeah, I like that one.

I need to have another listen myself.

I think this is better, except perhaps at the very beginning...

before:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xayvsl4jme044 ... 0.MOV?dl=0

after:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8pu591kfdcks ... D.MOV?dl=0

I recognise the improvement and the slight trouble you run into. There is a slight flutter overhang to the sound from “after”.

beck wrote: ↑2021-01-07 21:50 I recognise the improvement and the slight trouble you run into. There is a slight flutter overhang to the sound from “after”.

"flutter overhang" ! - what's that? :)

A slight extra “ringing” to the sound making it just a tad fatter. It can only be heard listening to the clip. In the room it is hard to hear.

beck wrote: ↑2021-01-07 14:00

u252agz wrote: ↑2021-01-07 13:55 If I were to to take on home -I would choose the Black deck with Valhalla /Ittok.

To my ears, the oak deck is more impressive sound wise, but the Black one plays a better tune.

Lingo1, Ekos2, Adikt. ;-)

Yes - thanks for the correction Beck. The black deck in the clips does indeed have Lingo 1 / Ekos2.

For some reason I have Charlie 1’s Valhalla Ittok deck with the same bearing, imprinted in my head.

That one really did boogie.

u252agz wrote: ↑2021-01-07 23:12 That one really did boogie.

The '91 spec deck is more special and digs deeper into the music but the Valhalla/Ittok still seems to boogie best. Something about the way it knits all the instruments together and holds onto every ounce of rhythm.

beck wrote: ↑2021-01-07 23:00 A slight extra “ringing” to the sound making it just a tad fatter. It can only be heard listening to the clip. In the room it is hard to hear.

Thanks. I will investigate further. I made two changes at once which was not sensible :)

beck wrote: ↑2021-01-07 21:50 I recognise the improvement and the slight trouble you run into. There is a slight flutter overhang to the sound from “after”.

I prefer the 'Before' clip, and with my novice's ear hear the 'After' as sort of muffled.

I find this more off putting than perhaps I should.

u252agz wrote: ↑2021-01-08 11:36 I prefer the 'Before' clip, and with my novice's ear hear the 'After' as sort of muffled.

I find this more off putting than perhaps I should.

Thanks - good to have you feedback. Thought I was onto something.

Beck has got me into 10cc :D

Don't get the bass reinforcement like I did in the bedroom so it's a bit thin.

Existing serviced NAP110 (Green LED):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsfxwltd6bya7 ... 2.MOV?dl=0

New serviced NAP110 (red LED / sticky out terminals):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3fial93m1srm4 ... 4.MOV?dl=0