Playground for practical listening exercises

[Charlie1]

Good to read your thoughts gents!

tpetsch, did you happen to notice any speed instability with the '02 deck (compared to the valhalla deck)? - just thinking about that Lingo service (which I will get done anyway)

[tpetsch]

Good to read your thoughts gents!

tpetsch, did you happen to notice any speed instability with the '02 deck (compared to the valhalla deck)? - just thinking about that Lingo service (which I will get done anyway)

Just listened again and the speed issue thing I heard on that previous clip you're talking about didn't jump out at me this time so that could have been an isolated anomaly, and if I really think about it again during playback maybe I can hear a tiny bit of drift here too when compared to clip No. 4 but like I said, this time I wasn't casually made aware of it obviously being in the way of the tune. But the A/B's I've heard in the past concerning recapped Lingos were mostly positive and I hope you too experience similar positive results if and when you do yours.

[lejonklou]

I started with No. 1 and it sounded very nice, then No. 2 and so on down the line. But for me I could have stopped at No. 1 as it never got any better. More refined / Hi-Fi possibly but never more in tune / overall musical, effortless flow and emotional than No. 1.

I found No. 4 to be the runner up but overall harder to follow the tune, less emotional but more relieving with the instruments sounding possibly more lifelike one could argue.

I also preferred the early to the late K1's, I found your late ones had a heaviness coloration floating above the whole performance -especially on the voice- on all the clips they were in. The early K1's are colored to of course but more in the ways I prefer.

I had the same impression as tpetch. Doesn’t get more engaging and fun than No. 1 in my opinion.

[Charlie1]

Just listened again and the speed issue thing I heard on that previous clip you're talking about didn't jump out at me this time so that could have been an isolated anomaly, and if I really think about it again during playback maybe I can hear a tiny bit of drift here too when compared to clip No. 4 but like I said, this time I wasn't casually made aware of it obviously being in the way of the tune. But the A/B's I've heard in the past concerning recapped Lingos were mostly positive and I hope you too experience similar positive results if and when you do yours.

OK, cool - tx.
You are right about the coloration in both Kans. The older pair are easier to live with and are fine with female vocals whereas the newer pair can be a bit peaky and shrill in that area. The main thing I don't like about the older ones is the sort of congested / dense midrange around where drums often sit, but they are clearly more musical to me as well.

I had the same impression as tpetch. Doesn’t get more engaging and fun than No. 1 in my opinion.

Thanks - I would have guessed that you'd go for 6 but just goes to show what I know.

[Spannko]

Listening to all the comparisons, I prefer the ‘89 deck over the ‘02, K400 over K20 and early K 1 over late K 1. K20 really messes the bass up, with the notes seeming to die away prematurely and loose pitch, which is a massive deal breaker for me. Unfortunately, I can’t unhear that in any of the K20 clips, which is quite frustrating! Source first rules, so overall my vote goes for clip 3. However, I’m already looking forward to an ‘89 + K400 + early Kan 1 clip!

[Whatsmynaim]

Charlie, which one of the six do you prefer in room?

I wouldn't mind hearing the early Kans with option 6, or my runner up 3. Possibly it's not too difficult to change the speaker terminals to make that happen? Or that you use a piece of K400 and angled banana plugs to build an adapter of sorts.

[Charlie1]

Charlie, which one of the six do you prefer in room?

I wouldn't mind hearing the early Kans with option 6, or my runner up 3. Possibly it's not too difficult to change the speaker terminals to make that happen? Or that you use a piece of K400 and angled banana plugs to build an adapter of sorts.

Obviously they're all flawed in various ways but I think 1. Is the best compromise and easiest to live with. My dealer is gonna fit Naim right angle terminals on the k400 next time I'm down.

3 is probably my runner up, but I can hear the bassline is more tuneful on the 02 deck, esp 6.

[Charlie1]

Listening to all the comparisons, I prefer the ‘89 deck over the ‘02, K400 over K20 and early K 1 over late K 1. K20 really messes the bass up, with the notes seeming to die away prematurely and loose pitch, which is a massive deal breaker for me. Unfortunately, I can’t unhear that in any of the K20 clips, which is quite frustrating! Source first rules, so overall my vote goes for clip 3. However, I’m already looking forward to an ‘89 + K400 + early Kan 1 clip!

I wasn't sure exactly what you were picking up on previous with the k20 but I get it now. I will try k400 once the terminals are changed to Naim.

[Tendaberry]

Of these clips, strangely enough, I prefer clip no. 1.

[beck]

Of these clips, strangely enough, I prefer clip no. 1.

That is not strange at all. :-)

[ThomasOK]

This is really an LP12 comparison that was requested so it's '89-spec (with VM95ML stylus) versus '02-spec but I've added in K20/K400 and early/late Kan 1s into the mix cos I was comparing them myself anyway. Only K20 can be connected to the older Kans at the moment.

Fill ya boots if it's of any interest...

1.) '89/K20/Early K1: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/i1b4f0h8 ... us90g&dl=0
2.) '89/K20/Late K1: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8l1tgi5u ... gzg56&dl=0
3.) '89/K400/Late K1: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/fynvf4ep ... jw75r&dl=0
4.) '02/K20/Early K1: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xfj29jlw ... y7lri&dl=0
5.) '02/K20/Late K1: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5lczwxvb ... nw8i4&dl=0
6.) '02/K400/Late K1: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5zu5tyev ... r0ux1&dl=0

I know which 1 beck will prefer already :D

Despite my initial reticence at listening to six tracks I went ahead and did it and found it quite interesting. First off my favorite is clip 1. I didn't compare them in the order posted but instead started with 1 vs 4 to hear the LP12 comparison and was also surprised that I prefer the 89 version musically. Then I went to clip 2 to compare the early vs. late Kan 1s and found I too prefer the early Kans. Then I did the K20/K400 comparison on clips 5 and 6 and quite substantially prefer the K400 to the point I also find the K20 hard to listen to. I think that the improvement of the K400 for me outweighs the improvement in the earlier Kan so I was not surprised to find that track 3 is my second favorite. The only one i'm on the fence about is whether clip 4 or 5 is musically the worst of all of them. I don't care much for either one but I'm not sure which 02/K20 combo messes up things in the nastiest way.

[Charlie1]

Thanks folks for your comments.

[Spannko]

Hmm, this is interesting. It looks like we’ve got a semi-mullet combination (track 1) being generally preferred to a source first combination (track 3). Is this an example of “source first” theory being falsified?

[Charlie1]

Hmm, this is interesting. It looks like we’ve got a semi-mullet combination (track 1) being generally preferred to a source first combination (track 3).

Forget semi-mullet, here's a proper mullet with Rega P2/Conical MM, Triple-F (Full Fat Fredification), and Tukans - so £350 for the source and speakers combined and a lot more for the amps...
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hyeyvvnt ... 6z8cs&dl=0

And LP12...
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/th0twg3r ... 6izpkzt5o9

[Whatsmynaim]

The P2 is shockingly good and I rather listen to it than most digital sources. Perfect for a second system.

[Spannko]

Thanks for the comparison charlie1. For me, the gulf between the Rega and the LP12 is greater than I remembered it to be, when I last heard the comparison, about 20 years ago.

[Charlie1]

The P2 is shockingly good and I rather listen to it than most digital sources. Perfect for a second system.

Thanks for the comparison charlie1. For me, the gulf between the Rega and the LP12 is greater than I remembered it to be, when I last heard the comparison, about 20 years ago.

It's a weird one cos with some music like basic rock, I don't find them all that different and actually the sound of the P2 is more open and punchy too, which helps. However, with most genres the LP12 pulls clearly ahead by making more sense of the music.

[matthias]

Prefer LP12 too, the intro on the Rega seems to be slightly detached from the rest of the song but anyway quite good.

[beck]

Prefer LP12 too, the intro on the Rega seems to be slightly detached from the rest of the song but anyway quite good.

+1

[ThomasOK]

Prefer LP12 too, the intro on the Rega seems to be slightly detached from the rest of the song but anyway quite good.

+1

+2. Not exactly a comparison I have to go back and forth on.

[ThomasOK]

Hmm, this is interesting. It looks like we’ve got a semi-mullet combination (track 1) being generally preferred to a source first combination (track 3). Is this an example of “source first” theory being falsified?

I think that is stretching it a bit. As the turntable/PS/arm/cartridge and the electronics are the same in 1 and 3 the only differences are the two last parts: speaker cable and speakers. While the speaker cable probably in theory comes before the speakers to me there are significant differences in coloration between the two speakers and the two cables. So it could be that somehow the K20/early Kan manages to work better than the K400/later Kan despite the K400 being more musical (at least to me) when the other items remain the same. Just my thinking on it.

[Spannko]

Hmm, this is interesting. It looks like we’ve got a semi-mullet combination (track 1) being generally preferred to a source first combination (track 3). Is this an example of “source first” theory being falsified?

I think that is stretching it a bit. As the turntable/PS/arm/cartridge and the electronics are the same in 1 and 3 the only differences are the two last parts: speaker cable and speakers. While the speaker cable probably in theory comes before the speakers to me there are significant differences in coloration between the two speakers and the two cables. So it could be that somehow the K20/early Kan manages to work better than the K400/later Kan despite the K400 being more musical (at least to me) when the other items remain the same. Just my thinking on it.

If I understand you correctly, you’re thinking that somehow the less musical K20 seems to work better with the more musical Kans because of significant differences in colouration?

[ThomasOK]

What I'm really saying is that nothing is perfect. Because of this the imperfections in two items, such as speaker cable and speakers, can sometimes be additive where they become more bothersome or irritating. Other times the imperfections can be more complimentary so they aren't noticed as much.

Or put another way, you can have a hierarchically correct system that can still sound like crap if the wrong components or combinations are used.

[Sopper]

Changed my living room for testing purpose (wife not happy yet)
Harbeths are now positioned more from the walls, and it never sounded so enjoying
No more “too much bass”
Just an impression (recording sounds a bit hollow, but it really isn’t)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IFwuTE ... share_link

[lejonklou]

Sounds great Sopper!!