Playground for practical listening exercises

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Spannko
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Spannko »

Whatsmynaim wrote: 2022-12-08 11:25 They can, and probably will improve over time while the unserviced pair can only get worse. I know which ones I would pick ;)
I have to ask. Is the glue used to secure the elements stiff or a bit elastic? If it's the latter you could experiment with the torquing, which I still suspect is the biggest reason for the difference in musicality.
Which elements are you referring to? Charlie1’s rubber surrounds were replaced, which required them to be glued back together. I don’t know what type of glue was used.

The original drive unit gaskets were cast in situ silicone sealant, with the drive units primarily secured with the 4 bolts tightened by feel to “Linn tight” *. I’m not aware of any “stiff” glues ever being used.

* The Linn torquing scale was: “Loose >> Pinched Up >> Tight >> Very Tight >> ******* Tight >> Linn Tight >> Broken”
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Charlie1 wrote: 2022-12-07 19:41 Tx Tom
I'm gonna try to just live with them for a while. However, they remind me of the Troika rebuild. Took ages to run in (or get used to), did similar nice things, but was eventually shown up by a stock Linn product (Adikt in same spec deck) which just made so much more sense of the music.

I get the point Fredrik was making about Katan caps and I fear this experiment will be equally futile.
I sense that the serviced Kans feels “hollow” compared to the more full body sound from the original Kans. Is that true?
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Whatsmynaim
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

I was talking about the sealant for the tweeter and woofer. Thought it was glue but since it's silicon and therefor elastic then torquing would still be possible and worth doing. right?
And yes, I do remember the Linn tight mantra. We've progressed quite a bit since then.
It could have been a good idea long term for wood cabinets though where it would loosen over time.
Charlie1
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

beck wrote: 2022-12-08 15:41 I sense that the serviced Kans feels “hollow” compared to the more full body sound from the original Kans. Is that true?
I like the sound - that's the bit I'm really pleased with

Having had a few gen-2 pairs, I do think they boogie better than the gen-3 and I suspect this is partly why some folks prefer them and why I sometimes enjoy them. But melody-driven music drags on this serviced pair. It doesn't flow effortlessly like good unserviced gen-2/gen-3 pairs. Bear in mind that U2 track has a lot of rhythmic drive - the gap is more obvious on a gentler, more melodic track. They struggle to generate mood / feel / emotion, such as a poignant piano note.

I can't see a clear way forward tbh so this might spell the end of my Kan journey and interest in vintage speakers full stop (as I'm not into active).
Whatsmynaim wrote: 2022-12-08 11:25 They can, and probably will improve over time while the unserviced pair can only get worse. I know which ones I would pick ;)
I have to ask. Is the glue used to secure the elements stiff or a bit elastic? If it's the latter you could experiment with the torquing, which I still suspect is the biggest reason for the difference in musicality.
The tweeter is glued and screwed but not screwed overly tight

I suppose I could visit the workshop and try some different torques on the B110B. However, I've messed around with speaker torques and this feels more deep seated. The other thing is that they need to be quite tight anyway, so that they don't work loose over time due to temp changes, etc.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Christmas update on my CD project. Experiments continue and this is how far I have come.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0djhjj43r1am1 ... 4.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/42l972g929hid ... 0.mov?dl=0
Last edited by beck on 2022-12-10 11:48, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Coming along very well. The second clip also sounds better with much less 'peaky' sound at the beginning - wood block?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Yes
Charlie1 wrote: 2022-12-09 16:06 Coming along very well. The second clip also sounds better with much less 'peaky' sound at the beginning - wood block?
Yes, wood blocks. :-)

I have gone to extremes to show up any differences between my Sondek and Cd player. Loud cd playback and one of my very revealing vinyl clips to make the comparison.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Ah, sorry, was playing on my phone in portrait without glasses and didn't spot the second clip was the LP12. Still, close though.
Spannko
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Spannko »

LP12 >>> Gestalt
CD >>> Ungestalt
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Spannko wrote: 2022-12-09 17:03 LP12 >>> Gestalt
CD >>> Ungestalt
Exactement! :-)
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by ThomasOK »

Spannko wrote: 2022-12-09 17:03 LP12 >>> Gestalt
CD >>> Ungestalt
Indeed! Clip 2: Music! Clip 1: Cardboard cutout of music? Even the break in the music after the first drum verse is better on the LP12.
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beck
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

It is easy to knock the CD replay (and I do it myself) but the fact is I really enjoy listening to my CD collection. So much so that a return to vinyl is not on my agenda anytime soon. Money does play a part in this too. :-)

…………. If interested try comparing with the cd clip volume one notch lower than the lp clip. They are not perfectly level when it comes to volume.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

beck wrote: 2022-12-09 11:59 Christmas update on my CD project. Experiments continue and this is how far I have come.

Cd1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0djhjj43r1am1 ... 4.mov?dl=0

Lp https://www.dropbox.com/s/42l972g929hid ... 0.mov?dl=0

Cd2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qi5wc441ft6e7 ... 5.mov?dl=0

So, does Cd2 better Cd1?
Last edited by beck on 2022-12-12 11:21, edited 2 times in total.
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Whatsmynaim
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

To me Cd2 is better than Cd1. Its presentation is more tuneful and relaxed.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Whatsmynaim wrote: 2022-12-10 17:24 To me Cd2 is better than Cd1. Its presentation is more tuneful and relaxed.
I agree. Happy Holidays to everybody. :-)
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

I enjoy CD2 more as well. Sounds better too.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tpetsch »

I find Cd2 to be more musical as well..
Rega P10, Aphelion II, Aura. Naim CB 32.5/HC, Naxo 3-6/HC, 3x250 into K20/DMS.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

beck wrote: 2022-12-10 11:49
beck wrote: 2022-12-09 11:59 Christmas update on my CD project. Experiments continue and this is how far I have come.

Cd1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0djhjj43r1am1 ... 4.mov?dl=0

Lp https://www.dropbox.com/s/42l972g929hid ... 0.mov?dl=0

Cd2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qi5wc441ft6e7 ... 5.mov?dl=0

So, does Cd2 better Cd1?
Cd3: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4uh4jhkol4rmi ... 8.mov?dl=0


Trying further. Does Cd3 better Cd2?

(Volume one notch down when comparing to LP)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

Cd3 is best so far and I hear more interplay between the musicians. Not at the level of the LP12 but it's getting there.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tpetsch »

I'll stick with Cd2 over Cd3.
Rega P10, Aphelion II, Aura. Naim CB 32.5/HC, Naxo 3-6/HC, 3x250 into K20/DMS.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Yeah, I enjoy cd2 more. Both seem to be recorded louder than the lp12
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Whatsmynaim wrote: 2022-12-12 17:28 Cd3 is best so far and I hear more interplay between the musicians. Not at the level of the LP12 but it's getting there.
I agree with your verdict. I am working further in this direction.

I have ended here with Cd4:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xm47g3d20za2v ... 3.mov?dl=0

(One notch down when comparing with Lp.)


Thank you all for listening. :-)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

Cd4 is really good! If I dare to nitpick, the LP still has a nice sway to the rhythm that the CD is missing.
Maybe it can be contributed to the LP and CD being mastered differently?
Anyways. This is a big improvement in only a few days. Good job!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Whatsmynaim wrote: 2022-12-14 22:02 Cd4 is really good! If I dare to nitpick, the LP still has a nice sway to the rhythm that the CD is missing.
Maybe it can be contributed to the LP and CD being mastered differently?
Anyways. This is a big improvement in only a few days. Good job!
I do not expect my cd replay to reach the “natural” relaxed delivery of the music that the Sondek is able to bring. Yet I have come so far that cd has become very enjoyable indeed. :-)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

Yeah I was nitpicking. Your NAD is already at a level where it's fun to listen to music.
So what things did you change between the last 3 clips? Because whatever you did it had quite an impact.
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