Playground for practical listening exercises

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beck
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

markiteight wrote: 2021-03-13 20:33 Thank you all for your responses. I have to say I'm surprised at the results as I fully expected exactly the opposite! To me the setup in the first clip doesn't sound as "good" but is more musical, in that I find it easer to follow the tune and make sense of the music, but it's presented with more of a sense of disinterested indifference. By comparison the second clip setup is intimate, seductive, beguiling, and pretty good musically...just not as good as setup 1. Is this a trap? I think so! Question is, is it me who has fallen into the trap or all y'all? I'm pretty sure it's me who needs rescuing!

So what are we listening to? Clip 2 is system as usual, clip 1 is Keilidhs in place of Omens.
Going with the sound from clip 1 I could never live with this pair of Keilidhs!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Spannko »

beck wrote: 2021-03-14 08:30
markiteight wrote: 2021-03-13 20:33 Thank you all for your responses. I have to say I'm surprised at the results as I fully expected exactly the opposite! To me the setup in the first clip doesn't sound as "good" but is more musical, in that I find it easer to follow the tune and make sense of the music, but it's presented with more of a sense of disinterested indifference. By comparison the second clip setup is intimate, seductive, beguiling, and pretty good musically...just not as good as setup 1. Is this a trap? I think so! Question is, is it me who has fallen into the trap or all y'all? I'm pretty sure it's me who needs rescuing!

So what are we listening to? Clip 2 is system as usual, clip 1 is Keilidhs in place of Omens.
Going with the sound from clip 1 I could never live with this pair of Keilidhs!
My thoughts too. TBH, I originally listened to clip 1 and thought it was so bad I didn’t bother to listen to clip 2. Sorry, markiteight. Then when everyone was preferring clip 2 I thought I’d better have a listen! Thankfully, I agree with everyone else and found clip 2 much, much better.

I’ve always found the passive Keilidh’s to be a bit of a flawed gem. Sound wise not great, but reasonably musical. I remember talking to a chap who worked in a Linn dealership in Cambridgeshire who exchanged his active Isobariks for an active pair of Keilidh’s with just two power amps (he didn’t like the second bass unit being powered), he liked them that much. I also remember walking into a shop where Keilidh’s were being driven actively by a Majik on the bass and a 140 on the treble - it was a very musical sound. My aunt and uncle have Keilidh’s driven by the Linn tuner/cd/amp combo and it makes a great party system! Hence me wondering if the Keilidh’s were an early model. I couldn’t live with them either.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Oak deck is back and now fitted with new Krystal. NAC 12 with serviced MM / MC phono cards.

Both of these have a black liner bearing, late Ekos II and same Lingo 1 unit.

1. Oak LP12 with Krystal: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qadpcnd7a25qe ... 8.mp4?dl=0
2. Black LP12 with Adikt: https://www.dropbox.com/s/616ux5nte51at ... 8.mp4?dl=0
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Listening to this kind of music I actually prefer the Adikt’s presentation. The Krystal seems too polite though sounding nice..........
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by anthony »

Charlie1 wrote: 2021-03-27 16:13 Oak deck is back and now fitted with new Krystal. NAC 12 with serviced MM / MC phono cards.

Both of these have a black liner bearing, late Ekos II and same Lingo 1 unit.

1. Oak LP12 with Krystal: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qadpcnd7a25qe ... 8.mp4?dl=0
2. Black LP12 with Adikt: https://www.dropbox.com/s/616ux5nte51at ... 8.mp4?dl=0

1
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tokenbrit »

anthony wrote: 2021-03-27 16:46
Charlie1 wrote: 2021-03-27 16:13 Oak deck is back and now fitted with new Krystal. NAC 12 with serviced MM / MC phono cards.

Both of these have a black liner bearing, late Ekos II and same Lingo 1 unit.

1. Oak LP12 with Krystal: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qadpcnd7a25qe ... 8.mp4?dl=0
2. Black LP12 with Adikt: https://www.dropbox.com/s/616ux5nte51at ... 8.mp4?dl=0

1
+1 and I def don't mean 2
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

Short answer: 1

Long version: It was hard to decide at first when both had different strengths, but I would pick the Oak+Krystal for long time enjoyment. The Adikt went a bit overboard with the energy and couldn't keep the music together as well.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by springwood64 »

I listened on my phone speaker.

1 sounds a bit less hurried and less bright than 2

Both sound great and it is of course a fab song. On my phone I prefer 2 😁
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks folks.

I've never compared an mm to mc before and surprised how much better it sounds. Mc removes a surprising amount of distortion. I know the plinths are different but the decks are pretty close really.

However, my preferences align with beck and springeood. The Adikt deck makes more sense to me and I enjoy the music more. Annoying cos these Briks in particular benefit from the Krystals clarity. I will let the Krysral run in a bit more and maybe the deck will settle overnight but might be open to offers if anyone is looking for an almost new Krystal ;)

Also agree with springewood that the Adikt sounds a bit rushed in comparison. Not something I'd noticed in the room though but that's probably the Naim influence. Might be similar to whatsmynsims's comment about too much energy.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by markiteight »

Charlie1 wrote: 2021-03-27 16:13 Oak deck is back and now fitted with new Krystal. NAC 12 with serviced MM / MC phono cards.

Both of these have a black liner bearing, late Ekos II and same Lingo 1 unit.

1. Oak LP12 with Krystal: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qadpcnd7a25qe ... 8.mp4?dl=0
2. Black LP12 with Adikt: https://www.dropbox.com/s/616ux5nte51at ... 8.mp4?dl=0
I think I prefer the Adikt, which surprises me. The Krystal sounds a bit too polite and reserved. This reminds me of an opportunity I had years ago to directly (as reasonably possible) compare an Adikt to the Lyra MC cartridge that came on my deck, on my deck, using a Uphorik. The tonal balance differences were very similar to what's portrayed here, but not quite as extreme. At that time (about 12-13 years ago) I thought the Lyra beat the Adikt ever so slightly, but there wasn't much in it. Since then my deck has been improved considerably through careful optimization. Although the spec remains unchanged I expect it would embarrass its 13 year younger self. I imagine that an Adikt, given a similar level of attention and a Slipsik to play through, would be even better.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

did you checked your Krystal is aligned in a good way - mine had to be turned clockwise with using what is possible with the 3screw attachement. Also levelling the arm to be 100% parallel improved it.
How many hours do you have on it?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

My dealer installed it. It's only got a couple of hours on it so I'll revisit later once I have more hours on it.

I tried the Valhalla deck this morning. Pleased with the new Adikt (also just a couple of hours on it) as a replacement for the VM95E. It seems to have the warmth and musicality of the K9 which was my previous favourite.

Also think it's the best choice for the Brik system going forwards. Funny, this album never sounds quite right with the Lingo deck (or Radikal when I had it) although I do rate the L1 highly and it's better with some music.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/259yx7odazlq2 ... 7.mp4?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r4g1bsbg74fo1 ... 0.mp4?dl=0
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Listening to your clips Charlie1 I cannot ask for more. I just feel at home......... :-).
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by u252agz »

The Valhalla deck sounds great and always has. It’s just spot on and leaves you wanting for nothing. Do let me know when you are thinking of moving this deck on.

On the Oak / Krystal vs Black/ Majik comparison I can see why opinions are divided.

The Adikt does sound good and musical and the Krystal a little less up front, but with greater detail and just as good a beat.

I would go with the Krystal as I hear more of the music and in a good way.

I think I would enjoy having a Krystal/ Entity on my main deck.
Kalla/Sag M/Tun M3/242/LP12/Slip7

Kalla/Giella Pi/JBL308/RS2e

Majik LP12/Boazu/110s
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks for your thoughts u252agz!

There is a complex rhythm part in that first M McDonald track (1min 17sec onwards for a few seconds) which just sums up what I love about that deck.

I think I just need to build a home for the Oak deck. Neither Lingo deck is gonna go in the office now and the black deck sounds good in the study.

This sounded good in the room. Not sure that's coming across well or not but here goes anyway....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1txluc8qmurj ... 5.mp4?dl=0
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2021-03-28 23:19, edited 1 time in total.
beck
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Effortless musical timing. The best 10cc clip on this forum! :-)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Excellent news for possibly the only 10cc clip on the forum! :)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

It might be the best rendition so far of possibly the only 10cc clip on the forum. Sounds great!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tokenbrit »

Charlie1 wrote: 2021-03-28 16:31 I tried the Valhalla deck this morning... think it's the best choice for the Brik system going forwards. Funny, this album never sounds quite right with the Lingo deck (or Radikal when I had it)
I have to wonder if there's a synergy between PSU & bearing, fundamentally more so than other combinations of Linn LP12 components - as I remember* it, the Lingo reduced noise by applying as little drive as possible to maintain the speed of the platter... that's going to be dependent on the behaviour of the bearing: if the bearing provides slightly more drag, or a less slightly more erratic drag, as is possible with an older bearing, maybe that throws the Lingo, but the Valhalla just powers on through... pure conjecture, but would explain why your preference for the black liner bearing goes hand in hand with coming right 'round (like a record baby ;) time & again to the Valhalla power supply. (just a thought)

* I may be wrong on the technical detail, but that doesn't mean the generational synergy idea is wrong - Valhalla introduced '82; Lingo '90.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by markiteight »

Charlie1 wrote: 2021-03-28 22:54 This sounded good in the room. Not sure that's coming across well or not but here goes anyway....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1txluc8qmurj ... 5.mp4?dl=0
I think that's the best clip I've heard from you yet.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

markiteight wrote: 2021-03-29 01:37 I think that's the best clip I've heard from you yet.
Thanks Mi8!
tokenbrit wrote: 2021-03-29 00:23 I have to wonder if there's a synergy between PSU & bearing, fundamentally more so than other combinations of Linn LP12 components - as I remember* it, the Lingo reduced noise by applying as little drive as possible to maintain the speed of the platter... that's going to be dependent on the behaviour of the bearing: if the bearing provides slightly more drag, or a less slightly more erratic drag, as is possible with an older bearing, maybe that throws the Lingo, but the Valhalla just powers on through... pure conjecture, but would explain why your preference for the black liner bearing goes hand in hand with coming right 'round (like a record baby ;) time & again to the Valhalla power supply. (just a thought)

* I may be wrong on the technical detail, but that doesn't mean the generational synergy idea is wrong - Valhalla introduced '82; Lingo '90.
You could be right. I don't really know either. One thought is that the L1 was also designed for a pre-Cirkus bearing so should work well. The L2 character is slightly different but not sure if that makes it better suited to the Cirkus bearing. I do think the Radikal didn't match with my pre-Cirkus bearing, either the white or black liner. It lacked drive that perhaps the Cirkus, Keel and Ekos SE upgrades provided and balanced out. I know the source first upgrade approach always works from a tunedem/tune method perspective but not convinced that mixing very old and new LP12 components gives you a well balanced deck.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

My wife said the hifi was taking up too much room in the study so had to move the Isoblue down there. Considering the amps are cold, I think it sounds pretty good. I think this is the best sounding room in the house though. Kans seem to like a meaty MC and 32.5/160.
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2021-03-30 09:47, edited 2 times in total.
beck
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Sorry to be negative Charlie1 but.............

















.......the Isoblue setup does not look as good as your black Ikea setup with black Sondek and 110 amp. :-)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

:D

Hopefully it won't get smashed by the cloths rack or the kids now :)

EDIT: I don't know why but with vintage Naim amps, the L2 strips away much of the spirit and joy in the music. Whereas, the L1 (with filter removed) is like an improved Valhalla. I knew I preferred the L1 but surprised how much difference there is in these old systems, especially this study one which sounded great but was quite dull.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

The effortless nature of your systems music making Charlie1 makes all modern digital offerings seem artificial and pointless to me really.......

Much of what is presented today is a waste of my precious time and life

I lift my hat and take a bow for old Naim and Linn and the people that made it happen!
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