Playground for practical listening exercises

[ThomasOK]

These are a bit closer. Overall I prefer clip 2 as I seem to be able to hear how they are playing the instruments a bit better. Also clip one sounds a bit brighter with less foundation, two sounds better balanced. I dropped the level of two a dB on a couple of comparisons (2dB seemed too much) and still heard the same things.

[Paaf]

I think #2 is much better. It even sounds noticeably louder. Could this possibly be a cold amp vs a stable warmed up amp?

[David Neel]

These were different power strips and cables. I have been coping with too many variables on this one! Number one is standard cables and generic power strip, two is a specialist strip and cables, which I felt sounded better but lost the tune. I now think I know why it lost the tune. Thank you for all the input, and thank you beck for telling me to get back to the music! I will post (I hope) only once again on this topic, when I have re-finalised the decision on power strips and cables - I found some flaws in the original comparisons. Maybe after the weekend....

[Charlie1]

Just a bit of fun. M140s vs Katans. The latter has the disadvantage of not being on stands. Sounds much more funky in the room but nevermind...

M140s: https://www.dropbox.com/s/353idoloqzado ... 6.MOV?dl=0
Katans: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ct9sswdhem7rq ... 7.MOV?dl=0

Personally I like them both for different reasons.

[beck]

I am a simple man. My head is nodding and my foot is moving up and down...................:-)

[Spannko]

Loving your system charlie1!

If I’m ever in need of CPR I’d like your system with 140’s to be used as the guide, although I’m likely to end up with a few broken ribs cos it’s so funkay!

[Charlie1]

Ha!, thanks Spannko.

I didn't switch the amp off between clips, so no bias caused there ;)

[ThomasOK]

I just listened on the built in speakers on the iPhone 8+ which are actually OK. The Kans are certainly far from an ideal setup. Also I’m not a huge disco fan although I once surprised my coworkers at a Christmas party by doing what they thought was a credible Travolta dance imitation to this piece. (I was asked the next day how drunk I was and they were even more amazed to find out I don’t drink. Of course they did, hence their questionable judgement on my dancing performance. ;-)

Anyway, I listened to a little over 20 seconds of the M140s then switched to the Kans and listened to the whole clip. Then I went back and listened to about 20 seconds of the M140s and then the Kans for the whole clip again. Nuff said. (Although they are both good enough to make my toes tap, but more body motion with Kans.)

[Charlie1]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. They were Katans by the way - just trying to avoid deja vu, cos if I can get some Kan 1s then I will also post those too at some point.

That's a video clip we'd all like to see - your Travolta moves! :)

[kallesprätt]

I just adressed the LP12 Radikal problem, I'm very pleased with the result.
Too bad I didn't make any clips prior to the mod...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hjgbt5ah9aktg ... 3.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/18sbo1zwlbloa ... 8.mp4?dl=0

/Kallesprätt

[Charlie1]

Certainly sounds good to me Kallesprätt.

Enjoy!

[ThomasOK]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. They were Katans by the way - just trying to avoid deja vu, cos if I can get some Kan 1s then I will also post those too at some point.

That's a video clip we'd all like to see - your Travolta moves! :)

Oops! Katans then (I must learn to read one of these days). As to the Travolta move video - not in this lifetime!

[beck]

I just adressed the LP12 Radikal problem, I'm very pleased with the result.
Too bad I didn't make any clips prior to the mod...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hjgbt5ah9aktg ... 3.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/18sbo1zwlbloa ... 8.mp4?dl=0

/Kallesprätt

Really nice clips Kallesprätt. I am getting more into Leonard Cohen as times go by. His last record is dark and deep. I really like it. One just has to get over his use of keyboard sounds. :-)
I hear it as if you have settled on “preamp first” plugging in the power cables as most do on this forum. Is that true?

[Tendaberry]

[ I am getting more into Leonard Cohen as times go by. His last record is dark and deep. I really like it. One just has to get over his use of keyboard sounds. :-)

Try the early ones ;-)

[Paaf]

I love this thread!

I want to suggest an experiment. Recordings of
A: a power amp with super clear sound, but not as tuneful as B,
and B: a power amp with great tune, but not as clear as A
would be extremely interesting, on several levels!

Who has the equipment and interest to do something along these lines? It could help us learn to better separate between clarity and tunefulness.

PS: Much more complicated due to placement considerations - but similarly fascinating - would be to hear some good super clear (electrostatic?) speakers vs say M109.

[Charlie1]

I have several old school integrated amps at the moment. The problem is that the most tuneful (LK Majik-I) is also the clearest. Having said that, I still prefer serviced Nait 1.

[kallesprätt]

I hear it as if you have settled on “preamp first” plugging in the power cables as most do on this forum. Is that true?

It sure is preamp first!

[beck]

As I now am finished with my trial and error investigation of my setup I would just like to share some of my own final thoughts about what I find useful when choosing between different setups (and systems).

The tuning of the instruments and the relation between notes should be the same as before the recording is made by the musicians. It should be possible to play along and feel yourself as a part of the band (not easy for non musicians to test).
The timing should hold the same standard. This many will be able to test. Use a piece of music with a firm rythm. This kind of music is often made for humans to move their body to! :-) Choose the setup that makes it most easy for you to play along. Just imagine yourself as one of the musicians and “feel” the rythm as you “ghost” play/sing along on your “ghost” drums, guitar, bass, keyboard ect.

Is it easy for you to be a part of the band following the beat together with the other musicians or do you get slightly conflicting timing information from the different instruments playing?

If so it will be more difficult to keep the beat and you will feel a slight strain while trying to.

It can be important to use your body to “feel” if it is easy or less easy. Your body will tell you. Or you can just look down at your foot or feel what your head hopefully is doing without you even being conscious about it.

Tuning and musical timing are two main focus points for musicians when playing music. If you get these two right chances are that you will enjoy the music.



Thank you for reading and enjoy your music collection. Beck

[Charlie1]

Just comparing compact speakers for a second system, also with Nait 1, but it will be Valhalla/Ittok spec instead, partly using up several old LP12 parts I had. Fortunately, my old pre-Cirkus bearing is still in good shape.

I've quite enjoyed the Eden's despite their weaknesses, so wondering if I could live with 109s in my main system after all. I suspect they would suit my room and the Nait better. But I wonder how much bass reinforcement they are getting from the M140s they are sat on.

Unfortunately, the binding post is broken on one of the Kan's so it's hard wired with K20.

K400/Royd Eden: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bk6tey54ffr88 ... 7.MOV?dl=0
K400/Linn 140: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yhuitknu8a776 ... 8.MOV?dl=0
K20/Linn Kan 1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ahx3eedud1huk ... 9.MOV?dl=0

[David Neel]

Difficult because I know which is which, but there is just something very musical about Kans - which I had for 27 years.

[beck]

Now I can hear what it is that makes Kans so special. Compact focus and togetherness in sound. Musically my favorit of the three presented here in this setup.

A great “source first” system. :-)

[tokenbrit]

Interesting clips Charlie1 - thanks for posting. Nice to get back to music here...
Surprisingly close soundwise but musically quite a difference. Not sure I understand your comment about Edens guiding you to 109s - I could sit comfortably in front of the Royds, I would be bopping to the Kans, but the Nait-140 combo left me cold, and I'd expect 109s to be much closer to their bigger brethren than to their beloved (k)ancestor. Can't help wondering whether there's something of a generational synergy...

[Charlie1]

Thanks all for your feedback. Useful as always.

Wow David, 27 years with Kans! We call that 'sweating the asset' in my line of work.

Tokenbrit, the comment about Edens to 109s was just in relation to owning a bookshelf speaker with much less bass as part of my main system. I agree the 140s don't match with the Nait for some reason. I like the tunefulness, boogie and refined treble, but they do seem a bit dull and lifeless compared to the others. Could it be a power issue? The Nait is only about 15-20 wpc. You're probably right and the 109s will have a similar character when combined with the Nait, but I will also be unsure unless I try them. I'm going to hear Russell K Red 100s are some point as they might do the trick - Russell claims they can work with 10w SET amps so should be fine from that standpoint at least.

The Kans are tuneful, fun and bouncy, but listening to them a lot today, they did get a bit tiring - they are quite full on and relentless on some material, although fine on others. The Edens are also a very fast sounding speaker, yet not fatuiging, but the downside is that they seem less tuneful than either Linn speaker, to my ears at least.

I also have Katans which are very tuneful and a good match for the Nait, but they will not boogie for some reason. Any music with a strong rhythm and it's as if they say, "Nah, I'm not doing that - not my thing." I mentioned it to Sunbeam a while back and he thinks they only boogie when active.

I did eventually try the Frugal Horn with a single full-range driver btw. Not as tuneful and engaging as the M140s. Very nice sound though. It was sonically just right for the rest of my system so a bit of a shame.

[u252agz]

Interesting clips

I find these more difficult than I expected, but I am drawn to the two Linn speakers in terms of musicality and tunefulness, even though the Edens are quite good.

Of the two, the Majik 140s sound more tuneful and would get my vote - even if a little laid back.

Kans are interesting but maybe sacrificing some musicality for their undoubted spirited nature and boogie factor.

I think for short sessions Kans would be good fun but long term 140s for me .

[Charlie1]

Interesting clips

I find these more difficult than I expected, but I am drawn to the two Linn speakers in terms of musicality and tunefulness, even though the Edens are quite good.

Of the two, the Majik 140s sound more tuneful and would get my vote - even if a little laid back.

Kans are interesting but maybe sacrificing some musicality for their undoubted spirited nature and boogie factor.

I think for short sessions Kans would be good fun but long term 140s for me .

This also sums up my feelings earlier on.

Having said that, I played 'Jordon the Comeback' afterwards, with the Kans, and it was really good.