Playground for practical listening exercises

[Tendaberry]

First link doesn't work for me...

[Charlie1]

Try now

[ThomasOK]

First track might have a bit more bass but the bass is much better on the second track, more texture to the instrument and better timing. The rim shot on the first track is sharp and aggressive whereas it sounds right on the second track, same things with vocal sibilants - probably mostly from the worn stylus. Overall the second track is definitely more tuneful and better timed top to bottom. It also has less audible surface noise. Definitely a worthy upgrade.

[Charlie1]

Thanks for your feedback. Overall I'm pleased to be enjoying my music even more, especially as this was effectively a step down from previous top-of-range to current midrange Linn cart, and will help reduce my future running costs. I plan to replace the cart every 4 years no matter what from now on. The temptation when stretching to Kandid would be to string it out much longer.

Colin Macey setup the deck and will no doubt be happy to read your comments too.

First track might have a bit more bass but the bass is much better on the second track, more texture to the instrument and better timing.

I was thinking of moving the speakers slightly further out from the rear wall, once the new stylus has a couple 100 hours on it. I was initially struggling with the quantity of added bass, although this has either improved already or I've acclimatised myself to the slightly different balance. Is this normal with a new cart? Been about 10 years since I bought a new cart.

[lejonklou]

Recording 2 is a lot better to my ears!

[beck]

Recording 2 is a lot better to my ears!

+1

And a nicer looking Sondek too! Congratz

[Spannko]

It would be interesting to hear the same track in a months time, or so. At the moment, your new deck sounds like it could do with a bit more running in. It’s a bit better tune-wise, but not as much as I would expect and sound-wise, it sounds a bit constrained.

[Charlie1]

It would be interesting to hear the same track in a months time, or so. At the moment, your new deck sounds like it could do with a bit more running in. It’s a bit better tune-wise, but not as much as I would expect and sound-wise, it sounds a bit constrained.

I'll post another one when I think it's done a couple hundred hours. I also need to tune the arm settings by ear.

I'm just relieved to have any musical benefit tbh, going from top to midrange cart. The previous Cirkus bearing was not too bad so I was not expecting a big leap forward from that.

I don't know where the constrained sound comes from. It could be one of many things that changed, but hopefully more sense of ease will come once the cart has a good number of hours on it. It might also relate to the Urika loading which is aimed at Akiva/Kandid, not Krystal, so could be a more permanent feature, unless Fredrik comes up with a price comparable competitor.

[u252agz]

I much prefer the second track - no contest.

Timing is spot on and the music flows beautifully - I would be over the moon with this upgrade. Colin has done a great job.

I can see what some are saying regarding more bass in the first track and more ‘openess’, but all the important attributes which cut to the heart of the music are much better in the second track.

From some of the Radical/Urika clips which Thomas has shared elsewhere on the Forum, it seems like the separation of the two in this installation is responsible for some, if not most of this fundamental improvement.

Enjoy !

[Charlie1]

I much prefer the second track - no contest.

Timing is spot on and the music flows beautifully - I would be over the moon with this upgrade. Colin has done a great job.

I can see what some are saying regarding more bass in the first track and more ‘openess’, but all the important attributes which cut to the heart of the music are much better in the second track.

Thanks for the feedback u252agz!

Just realised I really should take another clip now, so we can compare the Krystal burn in later without having to listen to Stevie Nicks AGAIN!!! Don't think I can take much more of that track :)

[beck]

Just reminding ourselves that the smallest things can bring out better sound:

Before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8eksbyzov5ckv ... 4.mov?dl=0

After: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwlagkdhc9gwm ... 9.mov?dl=0

The cheapest trick in the world. What did I do?

[Spannko]

There’s quite a difference, but it’s hard to guess what you did. Removed the tape from your tweeters? :-)

[tokenbrit]

Unplug and plug back in again to clean all connections? Cleaned the LP? Moved the album cover? ;)
I was going to say bumped the volume up a bit but recall you don't use a pre-... Changed you listening (recording) position slightly?

[beck]

Yes, Spannko. My children covered my tweeters with.......no, that’s not it.

I can always count on tokenbrit to come up with a good answer! :-)

It happened after unplugging the speaker cables. The difference on the recording is big but in the room you barely notice it.
Using an old system also means it can be fluctuations in the system (or the power itself). If I get round to it I will try it some other time to see if I can repeat the result.

Here a day after I think I can continue with the “new” sound. My guess is that it has to do with me experimenting with my biwire connections on my espeks.

[ThomasOK]

I got it - you turned on the lights and it got brighter! Maybe Enid Lumley was right?*

I find it interesting that the second clip is notably brighter sonically but also visually. No question that unplugging and plugging back in all your cables every once in a while makes an improvement in the sound by reestablishing good contact. But from your comment it appears that you are playing around with how you connect to the speakers so there is more going on, which I would expect from the change in sound.

Musically I think I like B a little bit better but I also think I'd prefer something about halfway between the two.

*Enid Lumley, the US version of Peter Belt, once stated that if you kept your eyes closed in a dark room you could hear the difference when you shone a flashlight on your speakers. It was supposed to be better without the flashlight.

[beck]

Musically I think I like B a little bit better but I also think I'd prefer something about halfway between the two.

Exactly my thoughts Thomas. You beat me to it!

I sensed that something was not 100 % normal when I made the second clip. I will continue my investigation.

[tokenbrit]

.. count on tokenbrit to come up with a good answer!

What do I win? ;)

.. if you kept your eyes closed in a dark room you could hear the difference when you shone a flashlight on your speakers. It was supposed to be better without the flashlight.

How do you know where to shine the flashlight if your eyes are closed? :)
Interference of sound & light waves? Phono meets photon?? Sounds phony to me :-o

[beck]

Ok, this is me being a little bit serious.

Both clips have the exact same setup! Between the first and last clip I tried different bi-wire connections. My normal is speaker cable connected directly to bass and midrange. Midrange and treble is then connected by the bi-wire card connection.
Never having used the treble inputs directly before and playing for a while with midrange input changed to treble must have made a difference. But other unknown factors may have influenced the outcome also.

I also tried playing without bass connected and without bass and treble connected. The musical output was just as exiting even though the frequence range was clearly diminished.


I have now tried to dublicate the difference but failed so my guess is that variations in power and old equipment fluctuating made the difference.


Anyone interested should have a look at the recording proces. Have a look at 15.30 min and 25 min in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMm-08uZXfo

[Charlie1]

A few weeks ago, at a fellow member's home, we compared his Ikea Lack to the new Isola Table (based on Archidee) which he was not 100% sure about. I felt the Isola was more tuneful. We'd been listening to regular rock/pop up to that point. We then compared with some classical music (can't recall the piece) but as the music become more complex, I felt the Lack held the whole piece together better, which is what he's been saying all along.

Since then I've been wanting to re-test at home with my Archidee. My feeling is that this will be similar to the pre-1st / Radikal 1st comparisons where it's a case of picking one set of compromises over another. I know some members don't hear things like that and just prefer pre 1st all the time. Anyway, see what you think bearing the above in mind:

Archidee:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1v1772idwiuli ... D.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/53ymguxu456jk ... D.MOV?dl=0

Lack:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zjicz7bblcn27 ... D.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wikrxw5tw6n0 ... D.MOV?dl=0

For me the Archidee is more tuneful still, but is the Lack just a bit more satisfying on the second track as things get busy?

[beck]

From the second I listen to the Lack clips (just as much the slow part) I am in the world of music. I simply forget the hifi. That is enough for me to tell that I am a Lack man. :-)

Tchaikovsky’ s 4. symfony is fantastic (as the 5. and 6. are too).

Congratulation to England!

[ThomasOK]

Well, I'm afraid I'm going to be a contrarian here. To me the Archidee clips are both more musical and enjoyable than the Lack ones. I will admit that the Lack is better than I expected but I haven't actually played with one. However, I find it easier to follow what is going on in the Archidee clips and it also seems like the Lack squashes dynamics a bit. On the quieter passages I can't hear as much into the instruments and playing, on the louder ones I find the Lack getting a bit crushed and strident, on the Archidee the louder notes sound more natural and more powerful.

I listended to the sets of clips twice on the store iMac and then helped a customer. When I came back beck's reply was there so I decided to listen again on my iPhone and wired earpods as they seem to be better at revealing what is truly going on. Going back and forth a couple of times both sounded more musical on the earpods but I found the same differences in favor of the Archidee on both sets of clips.

[tokenbrit]

Thanks for typing that up Tom as I was just reaching for a second device on which to listen to the clips after reading beck's (and Charlie1's) comments... My thoughts matched yours, which is both disappointing and encouraging since my LP12 currently sits on a Lack. Sounds like I need a NOKTable!

Listening again the Lack sounds like the orchestra have different instructions and aren't putting the music together quite right, resulting in a mess. The Archidee feels like the conductor took control, and each part of the orchestra contributes separately and jointly to the performance - far more enjoyable, to me.

[beck]

Thanks for typing that up Tom as I was just reaching for a second device on which to listen to the clips after reading beck's (and Charlie1's) comments... My thoughts matched yours, which is both disappointing and encouraging since my LP12 currently sits on a Lack. Sounds like I need a NOKTable!

You should know by now that I like to be in opposition even when I am wrong! :-)

[tokenbrit]

Is there right & wrong when we're expressing personal preference? :) Maybe if the preference is just to be in opposition... ;)

[Charlie1]

Thanks all for your feedback. I think we are all very consistent, with Tom and tokenbrit preferring the more tuneful option, and Beck having an ear on something else, something more holistic. And then I'm once again flitting from one to the other.

I know tokenbrit found it a bit incredulous many months ago that I could prefer one option one minute and then another the next, but again with these clips, I find it depends 'how' I'm listening. If all or most of my attention is taken with the lead instrument then I prefer the Archidee. Whereas, if I'm not really focussed on one instrument/melody then the overall performance can sometimes, but not every time, seem more cohesive with the Lack. I swear there is something in this around how the brain works, or how it can work for some people.

You all seem to have a preference which is nice for you :) I think for me it probably depends on the type of music. I did the pre-1st/Radikal-1st test again recently, just to see if anything had changed with the Krystal in play. The first track I compared was an ballad with a solemn piano melody leading it. Pre-1st was more emotive and defintiely my preference. The next track was uptempo with some cool rhythms and here Radikal-1st just seemed more funky and better suited.

I actually wish I was in one camp or the other. That would be much simpler.

Lastly, tokenbrit, glad this has been useful, especially if it means you buy a NOKTable. That would be cool.