Playground for practical listening exercises

[OscarH]

Haha, they’re not the same one. That said I also find there’s not all that much between them.

The bass response is actually good also without the subwoofer. It is off course possible it could be integrated better, but the crossover is set quite low so I don’t think it’s responsible for much of what we hear in the clips.

The windows may well be what’s confusing everyone. It’s off course an unusual positioning , but that’s how it is for the time being. They are quite chunky, which may be a factor in the bass response.

I’ve now added the promised sketch in Me and My System.

Edit: I’ll make some new clips with the sub off.

[V.A.MKD]

Edit: I’ll make some new clips with the sub off.

It will good with sub off, but move it out of the room ...

[OscarH]

For my interest: would people expect there’d be consensus on clips where the mains phase ONE component is varied?

Keeping in mind for all we know the other components (TT PSU, amplified and subwoofer) could be connected in several combinations of right and wrong.

There was no clear majority for my clips, resins for which is speculated about above.
I can reveal that A was ‘normal’, ie how it was on the “Gaio 2 vs 2.4” clips. This direction is determined using the “OCD approved method” - align the plugs with each other on the power strip, pointing away from the power strip supply cable. Probably how most people would do it if not considering audiophile factors.

[Charlie1]

I don't understand this phase thing. Is it something we can do in the UK as well?

[beck]

Making clips is a shortcut and not foolproof. Many factors play a role (your room for one) and as persons here on the forum we are all different. Not an easy task. We are humans and make mistakes.
So no, you cannot always expect a clear vote.

What matters more is your own situation when listening. Do you enjoy the music? I guess you do and that is what matters most. :-)

[beck]

I don't understand this phase thing. Is it because you can connect each mains cable one of two ways, whereas in the UK we cannot due to the 3-pin plug layout?

Yes. :-)

[Charlie1]

Making clips is a shortcut and not foolproof. Many factors play a role (your room for one) and as persons here on the forum we are all different. Not an easy task. We are humans and make mistakes.
So no, you cannot always expect a clear vote.

What matters more is your own situation when listening. Do you enjoy the music? I guess you do and that is what matters most. :-)

Yes, it's a minefield really especially if recordings are made at different times. For example, my system seems to sound better in the evening. Is that cos it's warmer or some other factor? Did i leave a phone and laptop in the room during one clip, but not the other? You could probably make a very long list.

[OscarH]

FWIW I had a slight preference for A.

I have always defended Bob Dylan against unfair and faulty accusations of being a bad singer. I think his intonation is better in A.

[Defender]

Charlie1 yes you can do also something in the UK but its not as easy as with the European plugs.
You can switch your polarity either at the socket or at the other end of the cable what feeds the socket. But as you can harm yourself you should only do in case you know what you are doing.

However there is not really a need to do that - Fredrik has written the document: „A Few Hints about Power Cords“

If your life wire is connected at the side of the plug like he describes it your are fine - he is taking care of the rest.
If you have more than one cable in the distribution block oriented the same way all have the right polarity if the life wire is like above. That means even if you have a power cable that is connected to the device like with Entity or Slipsik or Gajo you are fine. I am pretty sure Fredrik knows the wiring convention for the UK and takes care of it so dont worry.

The only issue in the UK can happen if the local Electrician didnt follow the rules or some self made specialist wired some sockets.
In the EU its more complex as you can put the plug one way and another way 180 degrees so either one pin or the other pin gets the live wire which than can be either right at the device or wrong.
There is also no real convention in the EU so its best to check like he describes.

.

[OscarH]

Let’s try again. New clips. New music. If you look hard you might also be able to see both me and my wife waving.

The subwoofer is now off. I am sorry to disappoint Vlado, but it’s still in the room for this phase test.

Difference is still only 180 degrees on the Gaio 2.4 mains plug.

Bonus question: Those who know their Rega gear might be able to spot one further detail which is different from previous clips ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u0pnb21hr0pd ... JexIa?dl=0

[beck]

So close I think you can enjoy it either way. They sound different but I am not going to pick a winner. This seldom happens to me!

Very hard pressed I would choose clip BB. It is easier on my ear and to me has a slightly more natural sound and flow.

My wife is also fond of knitting! :-)

The red rega led turned green now.......

[OscarH]

So close I think you can enjoy it either way. They sound different but I am not going to pick a winner. This seldom happens to me!

My wife is also fond of knitting! :-)

The red rega led turned green now.......

I wish I had something to do while she knits... ‘reading forums’ doesn’t have the same ring to it haha.

Yep - green for 45 rpm!

I don’t think I’ve mentioned that my wife is also both a singer and an acoustical engineer. She has just lectured me about construction of modern windows. She went “off course they’ll reflect bass”.

[beck]

:-)

When I am going to visit Copenhagen getting instruments (clarinets) fixed by A. Andersen (moved from Otterup half a year ago) I will make a call to see if you are home if you do not mind. :-)

[Defender]

what does she prefer more? A or B?
did you checked out the power cords document?
If on another power cord the phase comes out at the right side if you look at the plug and your Gajo power cord is in the same distribution block and in the same orientation than that is the right polarity.

[Charlie1]

Thanks Defender! Very well explained.

[Charlie1]

Let’s try again. New clips. New music. If you look hard you might also be able to see both me and my wife waving.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u0pnb21hr0pd ... JexIa?dl=0

I much prefer AA. My mind struggles to follow the BB music whereas AA makes plenty of sense to me.

I'm just using the speaker on my phone so hard to judge the impact of turning off the sub.

[OscarH]

:-)

When I am going to visit Copenhagen getting instruments (clarinets) fixed by A. Andersen (moved from Otterup half a year ago) I will make a call to see if you are home if you do not mind. :-)

You’re most definitely welcome when you’re next in Copenhagen!

[beck]

:-)

When I am going to visit Copenhagen getting instruments (clarinets) fixed by A. Andersen (moved from Otterup half a year ago) I will make a call to see if you are home if you do not mind. :-)

You’re most definitely welcome when you’re next in Copenhagen!

Thank you.

Regarding the clips I am in the BB camp but can enjoy both.

I would just go with the right polarity or let the wife decide! :-)

[V.A.MKD]

Let’s try again. New clips. New music. If you look hard you might also be able to see both me and my wife waving.

The subwoofer is now off. I am sorry to disappoint Vlado, but it’s still in the room for this phase test.

Difference is still only 180 degrees on the Gaio 2.4 mains plug.

Bonus question: Those who know their Rega gear might be able to spot one further detail which is different from previous clips ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u0pnb21hr0pd ... JexIa?dl=0

Hi OscarH,

Both are OK, musical ...

For me better is BB.

Better bass control, comparing to AA.

[OscarH]

what does she prefer more? A or B?

My wife is rather skeptical about the use of clips for evaluations of fine nuances. It's interesting because, while I'm certainly not unmusical, she really has very good pitch. Close to perfect. But she has her reasons for being skeptical and I can't say that they're unfounded.

As others have also previously eluded to, there are a large number of parameters beyond our control when doing this which has certainly been highlighted by my recent run of no less than three sets on inconclusive clips. That said, acknowledging when one is unable to tell two things apart is as important as being able to tell two things apart.

On a more general topic of audio evaluation, an interesting point she made - one to be aware of - is that humans have, by nature, selective hearing. We listen for danger and quickly filter out anything 'safe'. This may mean that we notice change, but if the change is deemed 'safe' it will very soon be rated as less important and we will struggle to focus on it anymore. Overcoming filters placed in our brains by evolution is no mean feat...

For me and probably for most, it is difficult to consistently listen for the same parameters. You hear a bit of this and a bit of that and then the next time a bit of this again. At some stage distinguishing between what you hear, what you expect to hear and what you think you hear gets rather messy. Music is the sum of all parts, but evaluating a broad spectrum all at once is close to impossible. So, extreme focus during evaluation and very open mind when listening for pleasure appears to be the difficult combination to attain.

Nonetheless - she and I agree that conceptually the Tune Method is the least flawed evaluation method. Not least because it actually addresses musical values rather than arbitrarily selected indicators of musical value.

[lejonklou]

Things are moving a bit too fast for me in here, but I listened to the last set of clips and find that I prefer AA.

None of the comparisons have been particularly easy, though. The clips sound quite different to me, but I find them difficult to categorize into better and worse.

[OscarH]

Let’s try again. New clips. New music. If you look hard you might also be able to see both me and my wife waving.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u0pnb21hr0pd ... JexIa?dl=0

I much prefer AA. My mind struggles to follow the BB music whereas AA makes plenty of sense to me.

I'm just using the speaker on my phone so hard to judge the impact of turning off the sub.

I tried with the sub both on and off while listening to the album and the subbass doesn't seem to be a fundamental part of this music. The double bass (which doesn't come out well in the clips anyway) will off course contain low frequencies, but they don't seem to be what makes it sound like a double bass.

I've found the sub to have a bigger impact with other music.

[beck]

what does she prefer more? A or B?

My wife is rather skeptical about the use of clips for evaluations of fine nuances. It's interesting because, while I'm certainly not unmusical, she really has very good pitch. Close to perfect. But she has her reasons for being skeptical and I can't say that they're unfounded.

.........

Nonetheless - she and I agree that conceptually the Tune Method is the least flawed evaluation method. Not least because it actually addresses musical values rather than arbitrarily selected indicators of musical value.

You just hold onto her! She comes across as an intelligent person! :-)

One of the most important things to consider regarding clips is that they make our conversations so much more fun and interesting!

Think of all the different systems and music you get to “hear” and discuss. Flawed as they are they make this little world a better place to be and they have been vital in my journey towards better music at home.
They have played an important part in making me aware of things regarding replay of recorded music I would never have considered not listening to and evaluating them.

[V.A.MKD]

One of the most important things to consider regarding clips is that they make our conversations so much more fun and interesting!

Think of all the different systems and music you get to “hear” and discuss. Flawed as they are they make this little world a better place to be and they have been vital in my journey towards better music at home.
They have played an important part in making me aware of things regarding replay of recorded music I would never have considered not listening to and evaluating them.

+1, absolutely ...

[beck]

Let’s try again. New clips. New music. If you look hard you might also be able to see both me and my wife waving.

The subwoofer is now off. I am sorry to disappoint Vlado, but it’s still in the room for this phase test.

Difference is still only 180 degrees on the Gaio 2.4 mains plug.

Bonus question: Those who know their Rega gear might be able to spot one further detail which is different from previous clips ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u0pnb21hr0pd ... JexIa?dl=0

Another important thing: your system seem to play music very well despite the window so I do not think you have much more to gain (with your present system and it’s present position in the room) other than enjoying the lovely music you get from it. :-)