Playground for practical listening exercises

[Charlie1]

To Charlie1: Wow, you have been buisy! This is where I would say that my kind of "Tune Dem" or whatever we shall call it is to no use!

The differences are more of a "hifi" nature as in "a little clearer or emphasis on different areas of the sound spectrum" and so on!

I cannot help you in a meaningful way as I hear no real differences in the way the "chords" of the music are being delivered. That is not to say that I don't hear differences!

You should go with you own gut feeling!

I know - a lot of files but I thought it might be tricky and wasn't sure whether or not other folks would appreciate more songs.

I think musically the difference must be fairly close cos I don't have a clear preference when listening in the room. Unlike the felt mat which has always seemed quite obvious. Thanks for listening.

[beck]

Always glad to "not" help! :-)

[beck]

Just use the camera app that is on your ipad from the beginning! It has a video recorder too. It works!

Thanks, I didn't realise that the camera app had a built in video recorder. In my defence, :-) I don't normally use an iPAD, or iPhone, it's my wife's, she uses it for e-mail and the kindle app.

I think I'm getting somewhere now. I've just recorded a couple of 35 second clips and they are about 45MB each, compared to a 1m35s clip recorded using the app I downloaded which was about 8MB. Clearly a huge difference in quality. However, next problem I need to overcome is that I have a super slow broadband connection and it looks like it will take about 6 or 7 hours to upload these two files, so clearly not very practical.

I would keep the clips and upload them when you get near a faster connection that you can use. I am not sure that a mp3 file will be useful for the kind of listening we use but who knows, it might.

[Charlie1]

Wings:
2.5mm 16amp spur: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jwow3g631lk1g ... p.MOV?dl=0
4mm 32amp spur: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xyv3z12dd5k3y ... p.MOV?dl=0

Fleetwood Mac:
2.5mm 16amp spur: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmuqb7gvjwub5 ... c.MOV?dl=0
4mm 32amp spur: https://www.dropbox.com/s/txk8wnvyr6sn0 ... c.MOV?dl=0

[beck]

Ha, ha! You got me there! This is much better than my cd. I find that analog recordings are able to draw me back to the world where they were recorded. The makeup is gone and we are left with something honest.

I do like the sound you are getting out of your LP12 on this stand and I prefer the last of the two clips.

[Charlie1]

Thanks Beck. Yes, I've been enjoying the cleaner and less distorted sound today and don't feel I'm any worse off musically either. Either I got it wrong last time or some other factor is at play. Maybe cos the deck is much further away from the wall? Something related to floorboards perhaps - surprised how the Archidee isn't being upset much by footfall. I don't recall it being so resistant last time.

[u252agz]

Wings:
2.5mm 16amp spur: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jwow3g631lk1g ... p.MOV?dl=0
4mm 32amp spur: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xyv3z12dd5k3y ... p.MOV?dl=0

Fleetwood Mac:
2.5mm 16amp spur: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmuqb7gvjwub5 ... c.MOV?dl=0
4mm 32amp spur: https://www.dropbox.com/s/txk8wnvyr6sn0 ... c.MOV?dl=0

I prefer the second recording- 4mm spur

[u252agz]

I wonder what yourself and other members make of the following. The Archidee table sounds much better. It's definitely cleaner sounding with less fuzz/hash. And it does seem easier to follow the start of 'Darklands' and 'Lyin Eyes' with more clearly defined notes but I think they also miss something. Listen to the last 20 sec of 'Over the Hills and Far Away' and I think the Isoblue rack better conveys the excitement and that song. It was always a difficult decision for me.

Lyin' Eyes (Isoblue): https://www.dropbox.com/s/l3fa2ctllsy24 ... k.MOV?dl=0
Lyin' Eyes (Archidee): https://www.dropbox.com/s/4fz24g1nm57bx ... e.MOV?dl=0

Darklands (Isoblue): https://www.dropbox.com/s/f2jcp9tx0f2cq ... k.MOV?dl=0
Darklands (Archidee): https://www.dropbox.com/s/o38fmj5pdicxy ... e.MOV?dl=0

Over the Hills (Isoblue): https://www.dropbox.com/s/im0ivoinszy2g ... k.MOV?dl=0
Over the Hills (Archidee): https://www.dropbox.com/s/pu9mleuabj2a1 ... e.MOV?dl=0

The Timpán Reel (Isoblue): https://www.dropbox.com/s/z1x1jmhjf4zzc ... k.MOV?dl=0
The Timpán Reel (Archidee): https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ijevstgydjxs ... e.MOV?dl=0

I prefer the archidee on the first two tracks.

[Charlie1]

Thanks u252agz!

[u252agz]

Nice recordings and good choice of tracks for doing comparison - quite enjoyed them!

With these sort of video clips I find some tracks can be challenging.


I am impressed that you and becks are so dedicated at getting the best out of your systems.

I am not good at swapping things around and find that by the time I have done this , the memory of the first set up has gone: especially if both set ups are good.

I therefore rely on advice on the forum and find I am invariably pleased with the results of other people's hard graft.

A successful ( for me) if somewhat lazy approach -I know.

[Charlie1]

Nice recordings and good choice of tracks for doing comparison - quite enjoyed them!

Thanks. I'm pleased you liked the 'The Jesus and Mary Chain' track. They get almost zero airplay these days which is a shame although their debut album (Psychocandy) is definitely not for everyone. What music are you into btw?

With these sort of video clips I find some tracks can be challenging.

It's really hard to know what will work. So much of the musicality is stripped off that I'm not sure it matters how tuneful the original recording is.

I am impressed that you and becks are so dedicated at getting the best out of your systems.

I am not good at swapping things around and find that by the time I have done this , the memory of the first set up has gone: especially if both set ups are good.

I therefore rely on advice on the forum and find I am invariably pleased with the results of other people's hard graft.

A successful ( for me) if somewhat lazy approach -I know.

I've had some time off lately which has helped. Actually I'm beginning to wonder if trusting in other peoples opinions might be a better way for me to go as well :)

[beck]

It has been fun and it has been educational. When a certain level of musicality has been reached with ones system there is not much more you can use these clips for. Then it is about the polishing and that is best done sitting in front of the system.
It has also been great to get to know you all just a little bit better especially with regards to what we listen for when we talk about a tuneful system.
I hope others will join in and make this tread continue for us all to benefit.

[Music at Home]

Hi beck, don't worry about conversion to mp3, it's pretty much the format used to embed audio into the video clips that have been posted, i.e. lossy and compressed.

Getting somewhere now. Have made some audio only recordings in Audacity and converted into the highest quality mp3 Audacity can muster; what it calls "Insane 320kbps". Only using mp3 as that's a format recognised by both Microsoft and Apple operating systems. Can't find a decent microphone, so have used the microphone built into my RadioShack SPL meter ... probably no worse though than the one built into an iPAD/Phone.

Having said all that, still disappointed, and embarrassed, by the quality achieved with my in-room recordings. They sound rather echoey and sharp, not something I notice "in real life". Will try and do better when I have a bit more free time. Here's a couple of recording with upsampling turned on and off in my music player, Audirvana. To be honest, the change is subtle at best

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zp5lz1rbfllfu ... d.mp3?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tyadike0fkamh ... d.mp3?dl=0

[Charlie1]

Having said all that, still disappointed, and embarrassed, by the quality achieved with my in-room recordings. They sound rather echoey and sharp, not something I notice "in real life". Will try and do better when I have a bit more free time. Here's a couple of recording with upsampling turned on and off in my music player, Audirvana. To be honest, the change is subtle at best

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zp5lz1rbfllfu ... d.mp3?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tyadike0fkamh ... d.mp3?dl=0

They sound good. And as Fredrik said yesterday, they only need to be good enough to tell which is better.

I couldn't hear a great deal of difference but thought upsampled was better. Is upsampling normally better or worse? Just goes to show what I know about digital music. The bass notes seem more tuneful to me, about 10 seconds into the track. Nice music by the way. Different to anything I own.

[Charlie1]

It has been fun and it has been educational. When a certain level of musicality has been reached with ones system there is not much more you can use these clips for. Then it is about the polishing and that is best done sitting in front of the system.
It has also been great to get to know you all just a little bit better especially with regards to what we listen for when we talk about a tuneful system.
I hope others will join in and make this tread continue for us all to benefit.

Yes, hopefully more folks will join in. Good fun and like you say, nice to get to know some members a bit more.

I should receive a Naim-copy glass shelf with ball bearings to try out so will hopefully have something else to share sometime next week.

[ThomasOK]

OK guys, have fun! (Maybe this should be posted in a different thread but it works here too!)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/62k5x5dqmbsd6 ... M.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ymr3l1ry7hkn ... M.mov?dl=0

A couple more:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ipnuq5of192hk ... M.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7zrvg9vv9ga1e ... M.mov?dl=0

Right off I will apologize for the sloppiness. Volume levels are not matched nor are the sections of the songs. However, there is a reasonable amount of overlap so I think you'll get the idea.

It should be pretty obvious from the crummy video what is going on here so I won't elaborate further.

Oh, yeah. If you notice some faint low growling in a couple of tracks don't worry - your aren't hallucinating. My dog Bella decided it would be a good time to roll around on her bed in the living room and was obviously enjoying it!

[Charlie1]

They both sound really good Tom. I think we do get a flavour of what the real thing must be like.

Instant impression of the JBLs is nothing sound related, they look massive! Like, really big. I know you know what 'massive' means but I feel a need to say more. Second thought, what does Debbie think of them!? Have you got some Klingon cloaking technology up your sleeve? Or maybe a thin black veil is easier to obtain.

At first I thought the ATCs were better. They sound more like what I'm used to hearing but having listened to both tracks I think I prefer the JBLs. It's like a layer has been removed. They seem more direct, almost like hearing through headphones. There seems to be less in the way. I also think they are probably more tuneful and easier to follow but I'm not really sure.

Any idea why the JBLs seem to generate less room ambiance? Maybe this is why they strike me as having a slight headphone quality.

One last comment - it's one thing reading about someone's experience but to have this as well adds another dimension. I wonder if this is the future of HiFi magazines? A bit like the car magazines often post a video to accompany their report.

[jewa]

To me the JBL is clearly better though completely missing some of the bass content. But I am a huge of bookshelf speakers so, no problem there. The looks are terrible – but, it is mostly a problem with proportions compared to the rest of the system/room. Might work! I need to compare these with klångedang.

Thanks for this Thomas, and very nice with some Jethro Tull!

[u252agz]

OK guys, have fun! (Maybe this should be posted in a different thread but it works here too!)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/62k5x5dqmbsd6 ... M.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ymr3l1ry7hkn ... M.mov?dl=0

A couple more:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ipnuq5of192hk ... M.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7zrvg9vv9ga1e ... M.mov?dl=0

Right off I will apologize for the sloppiness. Volume levels are not matched nor are the sections of the songs. However, there is a reasonable amount of overlap so I think you'll get the idea.

ATCs Sound really good but I much prefer the JBLs.

Less bass but what there is, is better controlled, and this becomes the dominant feature.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the JBLs may suit me better than my beloved 242s - never thought I would ever say that. Really nice flow and timing.

Thought that from the first recording on JBL thread- this confirms it.

Not sure I want to listen to these JBLs anymore, as I don't have the space for them.

[lejonklou]

Not super impressed with your clips, Thomas. I had to listen many times to get an idea of the differences.

The ATCs sound more HiFi and full frequency, but for me there's more fever in Fever with the JBLs!

[beck]

Hi beck, don't worry about conversion to mp3, it's pretty much the format used to embed audio into the video clips that have been posted, i.e. lossy and compressed.

Getting somewhere now. Have made some audio only recordings in Audacity and converted into the highest quality mp3 Audacity can muster; what it calls "Insane 320kbps". Only using mp3 as that's a format recognised by both Microsoft and Apple operating systems. Can't find a decent microphone, so have used the microphone built into my RadioShack SPL meter ... probably no worse though than the one built into an iPAD/Phone.

Having said all that, still disappointed, and embarrassed, by the quality achieved with my in-room recordings. They sound rather echoey and sharp, not something I notice "in real life". Will try and do better when I have a bit more free time. Here's a couple of recording with upsampling turned on and off in my music player, Audirvana. To be honest, the change is subtle at best

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zp5lz1rbfllfu ... d.mp3?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tyadike0fkamh ... d.mp3?dl=0

Yes, it is quite hard to find differences (better sound than the video clips by the way!). I actually prefer the non upsampled version as I find it more natural sounding. I find the upsampled version slightly more synthetic.

[lejonklou]

Having said all that, still disappointed, and embarrassed, by the quality achieved with my in-room recordings. They sound rather echoey and sharp, not something I notice "in real life". Will try and do better when I have a bit more free time. Here's a couple of recording with upsampling turned on and off in my music player, Audirvana. To be honest, the change is subtle at best

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zp5lz1rbfllfu ... d.mp3?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tyadike0fkamh ... d.mp3?dl=0

No need to feel embarrassed! I thought these clips were OK.

And I think Non-Upsampled is more groovy.

[Music at Home]

Thanks for the responses, I prefer non-upsampled too, but not much in it.

I've got an itch now to produce some better in-room recordings. I don't think I'll stop until I get to something like this (needs headphones):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JucUv-8NoHk

[Music at Home]

The JBL's remind me a lot of Rehdeko speakers. Not the fullest, smoothest or refined of speakers but there's an immediacy and quickness about them, like spongy layers of artificiality have been removed and your listening to something live rather than recorded

[beck]

To me the JBL is clearly better though completely missing some of the bass content. But I am a huge of bookshelf speakers so, no problem there. The looks are terrible – but, it is mostly a problem with proportions compared to the rest of the system/room. Might work! I need to compare these with klångedang.

Thanks for this Thomas, and very nice with some Jethro Tull!

They both sound really good Tom. I think we do get a flavour of what the real thing must be like.

Instant impression of the JBLs is nothing sound related, they look massive! Like, really big. I know you know what 'massive' means but I feel a need to say more. Second thought, what does Debbie think of them!? Have you got some Klingon cloaking technology up your sleeve? Or maybe a thin black veil is easier to obtain.

At first I thought the ATCs were better. They sound more like what I'm used to hearing but having listened to both tracks I think I prefer the JBLs. It's like a layer has been removed. They seem more direct, almost like hearing through headphones. There seems to be less in the way. I also think they are probably more tuneful and easier to follow but I'm not really sure.

Any idea why the JBLs seem to generate less room ambiance? Maybe this is why they strike me as having a slight headphone quality.

One last comment - it's one thing reading about someone's experience but to have this as well adds another dimension. I wonder if this is the future of HiFi magazines? A bit like the car magazines often post a video to accompany their report.

The JBL's remind me a lot of Rehdeko speakers. Not the fullest, smoothest or refined of speakers but there's an immediacy and quickness about them, like spongy layers of artificiality have been removed and your listening to something live rather than recorded

I can follow a lot of what has been said about the JBL's in the above comments. It is as if we are looking for some fundamentals that we have lost on the way. I actually find the JBL's to capture the tune in a more natural way than the ATC's.
I have changed my view on hifi over the years and am seeking a sound that can capture the essens of what I hear when standing in front of a live band and the JBL's are a step in that direction.