Playground for practical listening exercises

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Spannko
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko »

I like them both, but the Nait just wins it for me too.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by markiteight »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-01-22 09:53 LP12 hasn't changed in about a year, so still Radikal/Urika/Krystal/Ekos SE. I sold the Keel so using steel subchassis. I'm using original feet and a pre-cirkus bearing which I prefer with vintage Linn/Naim.
Ah ha...that might be it. I think I've grown accustomed to clips featuring your office system with the Valhalla/Ittok (is that right?) 'table.
Charlie1 wrote: 2020-01-22 09:53 I reckon it's more likely the speakers. Since commiting to this pair of Kans I was able to fine tune the setup and get them closer to rear wall (they don't have the early sticky out terminals).

Also, paid more attention to cabling after beck's feedback so no ICs touching power cables etc. And everything was warmed up a lot more than usual - i.e. left on over night. Can't think of anything else though.
It's amazing how a little attention to detail can transform a system's musical performance. Each change may be barely perceptible, but they're all cumulative so the end result can be massive!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

markiteight wrote: 2020-01-23 06:34Ah ha...that might be it. I think I've grown accustomed to clips featuring your office system with the Valhalla/Ittok (is that right?) 'table.
Yep, that's right. With Keilidhs and 12/160, or sometimes the Nait.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

Listen again clips, definitely stays on my first decision = Naim Nait.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

I do agree that the Nait is more coherent and tuneful.

It just doesn't work with Kans long-term. Nowhere near enough bass for me unless you whack up the volume to the max, hence my search.

Apart from 12/160, which sounds a bit soft and woolly with Kans, nothing else came close to the 12/110, especially in terms of musicality. I'm sure many folks would disagree and 32.5/Hi/250 did sound fabulous.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by anthony »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-01-23 10:55 I do agree that the Nait is more coherent and tuneful.

It just doesn't work with Kans long-term. Nowhere near enough bass for me unless you whack up the volume to the max, hence my search.

Apart from 12/160, which sounds a bit soft and woolly with Kans, nothing else came close to the 12/110, especially in terms of musicality. I'm sure many folks would disagree and 32.5/Hi/250 did sound fabulous.
I had 135 with my kans they were the best
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

Yes Charlie1,
I agree with you about Nait ... Especially if it "-" are accepted ...
This is result of what we listen here ...
In room / live I agree that the big picture is different ...
Nait VS 12/110 VS 32.5/HI/250 no doubt is clear ... :)
Charlie1 wrote: 2020-01-23 10:55 I do agree that the Nait is more coherent and tuneful.

It just doesn't work with Kans long-term. Nowhere near enough bass for me unless you whack up the volume to the max, hence my search.

Apart from 12/160, which sounds a bit soft and woolly with Kans, nothing else came close to the 12/110, especially in terms of musicality. I'm sure many folks would disagree and 32.5/Hi/250 did sound fabulous.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

anthony wrote: 2020-01-23 11:10I had 135 with my kans they were the best
I would love to hear 135s with anything, but ultimately, I just don't get on with the preamps fed by separate PSU. Something about it (maybe timing) that doesn't suit me.

That and the fact that the CB preamps are not all that great (musically), and I can understand why many Naim owners jumped ship when Linn launched their first amps. I guess the NAC 52 restored Naim's preamp capability but they are still pricey and need a dedicated PSU.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko »

Being guided by the Source First philosophy, maybe the Nait should remain and the search for a complimentary pair of speakers should begin. Answers on the back of a post card, as they used to say!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

Yes definitely Spannko. In the past good option was Haybrook HB 0.5 and HB 1, Epos, Linns, but today ???
Spannko wrote: 2020-01-23 16:19 Being guided by the Source First philosophy, maybe the Nait should remain and the search for a complimentary pair of speakers should begin. Answers on the back of a post card, as they used to say!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-01-23 11:41
anthony wrote: 2020-01-23 11:10I had 135 with my kans they were the best
I would love to hear 135s with anything, but ultimately, I just don't get on with the preamps fed by separate PSU. Something about it (maybe timing) that doesn't suit me.

That and the fact that the CB preamps are not all that great (musically), and I can understand why many Naim owners jumped ship when Linn launched their first amps. I guess the NAC 52 restored Naim's preamp capability but they are still pricey and need a dedicated PSU.
Fact? Opinion, surely? One that not everyone would share, I'm guessing (no experience of CB myself, BTW, but I'd be very surprised if they weren't as capable (IMO) as their Olive descendants?).

Re. your apparent dislike of pre/PSU, am I correct in thinking that you mentioned previously that you don't leave the equipment on 24/7?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

AlbannachFE wrote: 2020-01-23 20:20 Fact? Opinion, surely? One that not everyone would share, I'm guessing (no experience of CB myself, BTW, but I'd be very surprised if they weren't as capable (IMO) as their Olive descendants?).

Re. your apparent dislike of pre/PSU, am I correct in thinking that you mentioned previously that you don't leave the equipment on 24/7?
Yes, it's all my opinion :)

I had all the components powered on permenanty for about a week before the final tests. Therefore, I think it's safe to say the issue I have with them is more fundamental than warming everything up. I can connect stone cold 12/160 together and they sound fantastic and the heating in the garage is next to useless so they do get very cold. Why should a SNAPS require 24/7 power to come good and fix the slightly skewed timing?

I'm not doubting that leaving kit on all the time offers an improvement but suspect it's more of an enhancement (to my ears anyway).
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

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Spannko wrote: 2020-01-23 16:19 Being guided by the Source First philosophy, maybe the Nait should remain and the search for a complimentary pair of speakers should begin. Answers on the back of a post card, as they used to say!
That was the original plan, hence trying various speakers over 12 months or so. Audio Note AN-K were best but too expensive in the end. I also dem's a pair of high efficiency Klipsch speakers and bought the Audio Note AX2's second hand which were also quite efficient. Home dem'd or bought Russell K Red 50s, Rega ELAs, Royd Minstrels, Royd Edens, Q Acoustics and all failed to grab me. They just weren't as tuneful and coherent as 'any' Linn speaker and I really miss that.

However, Keilidhs work well with the Nait so I settled with them for several months. However, the thing you're not getting in the clips is that the Nait can't really rock like the 12/160. And I don't think it was 100% convincing in the AN-K dem either. Bands like U2, AC/DC, Led Zep, etc. all fall a bit flat. It's hard to explain but across a wider range of music, I prefer the 12/160 (in the garage). And in the house, I've decided I want Kans cos they work well in the room and I just want them back in my life.

So, there we are. Anyways, I'm very pleased with how things have worked out. I'm not missing the Nait at all, although I won't be selling it either. Plus I've relinguished a lot of funds compared to a couple of years ago, what with the sale of Keel, KK1, 140s, etc. The only thing that keeps me awake worrying at night is the running costs on that VM95-C at £17.50 a pop!

Incidentally, I did commit to buying a pair of HB1s locally but the seller changed his mind. He might change it back sometime so I could still get them.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-01-23 20:29
AlbannachFE wrote: 2020-01-23 20:20 Fact? Opinion, surely? One that not everyone would share, I'm guessing (no experience of CB myself, BTW, but I'd be very surprised if they weren't as capable (IMO) as their Olive descendants?).

Re. your apparent dislike of pre/PSU, am I correct in thinking that you mentioned previously that you don't leave the equipment on 24/7?
Yes, it's all my opinion :)

I had all the components powered on permenanty for about a week before the final tests. Therefore, I think it's safe to say the issue I have with them is more fundamental than warming everything up. I can connect stone cold 12/160 together and they sound fantastic and the heating in the garage is next to useless so they do get very cold. Why should a SNAPS require 24/7 power to come good and fix the slightly skewed timing?

I'm not doubting that leaving kit on all the time offers an improvement but suspect it's more of an enhancement (to my ears anyway).
As to why, I've no idea - Just going on the manufacturer's recommendations, and my own experience having owned various Naim boxes over the past 30 years. As I say, though, no experience with CB (so no NAPS or SNAPS powered items).

Also, post-service, IME, they take quite a while to come fully on-song, too, though the length of time perhaps? varies depending on the item(s) in question?

It's a shame to miss out on the 250 and 135s, IMO, but, it's your system, and your ears, and in that respect, your opinion is all that matters.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by markiteight »

Spannko wrote: 2020-01-23 16:19 Being guided by the Source First philosophy, maybe the Nait should remain and the search for a complimentary pair of speakers should begin. Answers on the back of a post card, as they used to say!
I have been quite happy with the Zu Omen Dirty Weekends. They are by far the most musical speaker I have tried in my system (Keilidh, Tukan, and KEF R102/2...so far) and they're so efficient the power rating of the amplifier they're connected to doesn't really matter. Nait has enough gumption to drive the Zus almost to rock concert levels in my rather small room.

Unfortunately the Zus will not be a realistic option for most people. Zu sells direct to the customer so they are rather difficult to obtain outside of North America, and the Dirty Weekends are only available to purchase 2-3 times a year.

I'm still curious to try and find a speaker that can out tune the Omens, just to see where they sit on the tune spectrum. Kan, 109, and Klipsch Heresy are on the short list.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Whatsmynaim »

markiteight wrote: 2020-01-23 22:30
Spannko wrote: 2020-01-23 16:19 Being guided by the Source First philosophy, maybe the Nait should remain and the search for a complimentary pair of speakers should begin. Answers on the back of a post card, as they used to say!
I'm still curious to try and find a speaker that can out tune the Omens, just to see where they sit on the tune spectrum. Kan, 109, and Klipsch Heresy are on the short list.
Try and borrow a pair of Totem Dreamcatcher. They´re about the same size as the Kans and got the speed
and energy, but they're not bass shy at all!
Maybe someone in the forum who have heard both recently can chime in about this topic.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

AlbannachFE wrote: 2020-01-23 21:09 Also, post-service, IME, they take quite a while to come fully on-song, too, though the length of time perhaps? varies depending on the item(s) in question?

It's a shame to miss out on the 250 and 135s, IMO, but, it's your system, and your ears, and in that respect, your opinion is all that matters.
Yes, I think both 110 and 250 have improved over the weeks since service.

The SNAPS and HiCap were both serviced a couple of years ago though so should be up to speed.

Maybe things are different with the 52 and 52 PS. I can only comment on what I've heard and I'm just one opinion amongst tens of thousands of Naim owners.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

Little bit confusing.
I check it several times with TM, yesterday and today and with 3 headphones and something is missing to me on Clip "After".
Maybe in live is different ...
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

I had listen yesterday on my phone whilst out and about and couldn't really hear much difference but the connection kept dropping.

Back home, they do sound a bit different today. I enjoyed the new clip more - just seemed to flow a bit better.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender »

I think clip after flows a tiny bit better but seems to also slightly harder in the voice
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

Thank you for listening. I agree with all the answers!

What we are listening to is the same setup days apart!

The after sound has now become the standard and settled for now.

What makes the after sound interesting is that now it also makes the Mike Oldfield remastered HD cd I own sound great. Less so with the before sound.
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

Yes, Defender, it is right definition of After, I can not find right words to express what I listen, English is not my mother ... :)))
Defender wrote: 2020-01-31 16:30 I think clip after flows a tiny bit better but seems to also slightly harder in the voice
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK »

After is better. Bass timing especially but voice and other instruments are better as well.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

Hi Thomas, Sorry for bothering you, one question: What model Grado Headphones you have ? 125, 325 or ...
Thanks in advance for your answer.
ThomasOK wrote: 2020-01-31 21:13
After is better. Bass timing especially but voice and other instruments are better as well.
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