Playground for practical listening exercises

[matthias]

I have changed my view on hifi over the years and am seeking a sound that can capture the essens of what I hear when standing in front of a live band and the JBL's are a step in that direction.

+1

Matt

[ThomasOK]

Not super impressed with your clips, Thomas. I had to listen many times to get an idea of the differences.

The ATCs sound more HiFi and full frequency, but for me there's more fever in Fever with the JBLs!

I'm not super impressed either, hence the comment I made about the sloppiness. Indeed, I had never originally intended these for the forum but had recorded them for my own use since swapping out big, heavy, ungainly speakers, especially when one goes on a stand that wobbles side to side, is somehow not a 30 second task! Also, as mentioned on the other thread, the 3677s aren't likely in the proper position yet. On top of all that my iPhone is a poor, old 5 with 16MB and it stopped recording on the short clip (the 3677 Jethro Tull) as it was out of room - so that one has a smaller overlap.

However, after listening to it I felt the clips were interesting and people would enjoy them, as they appear to have done. These clips certainly were never meant to be anywhere near definitive. Once I have the 3677s sounding the best I can get them in stock form, possibly including better stands, I will do some more comparisons where I listen to the JBLs first and then swap back in the ATCs.

Of course, another reason for the difficulties coming to grips with the two speakers is that they BOTH are really good!

Instant impression of the JBLs is nothing sound related, they look massive! Like, really big. I know you know what 'massive' means but I feel a need to say more. Second thought, what does Debbie think of them!? Have you got some Klingon cloaking technology up your sleeve? Or maybe a thin black veil is easier to obtain.

C'mon Charlie1, get out your thesaurus! Huge, enormous, gargantuan, titanic or the one I think suits them best, imposing! However, you have to remember that I have carefully brought up Debbie on black Isobariks and then the ATC 100s - neither of which can exactly be called a svelte speaker! So huge is pretty much to be expected here. As you can see they don't quite fit on the wall, with the right one overhanging a little into the hall. However, if I end up sticking with the 3677s I will be able to move the Yggdrasil with the LS-NAS and switch on it out of the way and slide the whole setup over so that it ends flush with the hallway wall. Since you really should listen in the dark, that alleviates most of the problem. ;-) I actually have a plan to make them more attractive that I will implement if I decide to keep them as my main speakers.

Thanks to all for the other comments. They are certainly interesting but I will save most other discussion of the 3677s for their own thread.

[Charlie1]

However, you have to remember that I have carefully brought up Debbie on black Isobariks and then the ATC 100s - neither of which can exactly be called a svelte speaker!

No, but these do seem to be in a league of their own. Still, you've obviously not hit a brick wall of disapproval which is a very good news under the circumstances.

[Charlie1]

Rejigged things. The main rack is actually about 10cm further away from the wall now.

The first recording has the LP12 much further out than the rack. The second recording has it inline with the rack although still about 10cm further out than the previous rack location:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/98dbvrqcsslhn ... l.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0r0bafkulhy2p ... l.MOV?dl=0

[lejonklou]

Rejigged things. The main rack is actually about 20mm further away from the wall now.

The first recording has the LP12 much further out than the rack. The second recording has it inline with the rack although still about 20cm further out than the previous rack location:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/98dbvrqcsslhn ... l.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0r0bafkulhy2p ... l.MOV?dl=0

There are some odd things with the clips - or is it just on my end? The first one sort of fades away after about ten seconds, then comes back. The second one has a glitch where the music skips.

Regardless, I find a stronger emotion in his voice away from wall. But it wasn't easy. I had a feeling the best position is in between the two?

[Charlie1]

There are some odd things with the clips - or is it just on my end? The first one sort of fades away after about ten seconds, then comes back. The second one has a glitch where the music skips.

It's not the files themselves. They also play fine direct from dropbox. Do you play them direct or download them first? I suspect your Internet service was congested if you play them directly off the website. If not, then no idea.

Regardless, I find a stronger emotion in his voice away from wall. But it wasn't easy. I had a feeling the best position is in between the two?

Me too. The notes also seem to fade away more naturally. I will try in between the two.

[Charlie1]

Furthest from wall: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ha4g5psc6k8ys ... l.MOV?dl=0
In between: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2rbaqi8l4jsyh ... n.MOV?dl=0

[lejonklou]

I think In Between is a little better.

Isn't it amazing that:
1. One can tune the optional position of the rack just like with a loudspeaker?
2. The difference can be heard in another part of the world, minutes later, with the help of these simple recordings and the internet?

[Charlie1]

A definite 'yes' and 'yes'

And why didn't we start doing this several years ago? :)

At first I thought the in-between better conveyed the mood of the song. Then I listened again and thought the further out was better defined and it made the other one sound a bit boring. I am really struggling at the moment. I'm not sure these files are actually helping me or not although everyone else seems quite clear on what they like. Do you offer any tunedem counselling services?

[u252agz]

First two clips - could not decide

Second two -definitely prefer in between

[Charlie1]

First two clips - could not decide

Second two -definitely prefer in between

Thanks u252agz. I did another comparison (not uploaded) and also felt in between was better first listen. I kept comparing and lost my conviction again but will go with the feedback here and those first impressions.

[Charlie1]

Rack aligned with new table position now. I took delivery of a glass shelf last night that was kindly donated. It's reported to be the same glass that Naim use. Posted the results below:

Archidee: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cmc058z1maoht ... e.MOV?dl=0
Isoblue with shelf: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsem08tp7d0r4 ... f.MOV?dl=0
Isoblue only: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2v9c5who7f46z ... y.MOV?dl=0

Apologies for the deluge but I want to make best use of the free time I have now.

[beck]

Archidee and Isoblue keeps the Sondek in tune. Isoblue with glass shelf sounds weird (out of tune) to me.

Archidee first, Isoblue second and forget the glass shelf.

The new placing has improved the Isoblue and it sounds good but I do think Archidee is best. Just my 2 cents!

[u252agz]

I agree with Beck.

Archidee best.

Isoblue by itself next.

Did not get on with isoblue with glass shelf.

Nice track and good recordings. Found it easier on the I phone 6, compared to my old I pad.

By the way - I have a feeling it's much easier to do this on someone else's system with unfamiliar tracks.

On ones own system / music I think we know the tune too well and fill in the gaps in terms of timing issues - also perhaps there is tendency to concentrate on the hi fi sounds when the tune is so familiar.

Also too much emotion with ones favorite tracks - gets in the way of objective listening perhaps.

Certainly does with me.

[ThomasOK]

Had a chance to go through a few of these. I listened to the various ones of Charlie1s racks. Archidee is better than the IsoBlue, farther out is better than closer to the wall but the in-between position is the best. The Archidee is better than the Isoblue in the last set and the Isoblue with the glass is definitely a step back from the Isoblue without it. I noticed on the one with eight links that the last four are broken.

Definitely interesting that we can hear the tune of the rack positions from these files. It is indeed surprising that rack distance from the wall is tunable just like speaker distance. I was very surprised when I discovered this by accident a couple of years ago. I really hope that there aren't also better left to right positions as I will have to draw the line here as my next videos will amply demonstrate.

[ThomasOK]

Here are a couple more system videos. Hopefully they are a bit more organized in terms of overlap and volume level. Let me know what you think!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6wuh3hsjzp22 ... M.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1o6i8cy3wj5n0 ... M.mov?dl=0

[Charlie1]

Thanks everyone for listening and giving me your feedback.

I noticed on the one with eight links that the last four are broken.

I'm using the free Dropbox and can't store that many files so have to delete the older ones.

[Charlie1]

On ones own system / music I think we know the tune too well and fill in the gaps in terms of timing issues - also perhaps there is tendency to concentrate on the hi fi sounds when the tune is so familiar.

Also too much emotion with ones favorite tracks - gets in the way of objective listening perhaps.

Maybe you're right. When doing a tunedem for just myself I try to use music I'm not familiar with. Hadn't been doing that here for various reasons. Perhaps I should go back to that approach.

[lejonklou]

I cleaned up a little, as many posts were only about broken links, which are now fixed.

[Charlie1]

Here are a couple more system videos. Hopefully they are a bit more organized in terms of overlap and volume level. Let me know what you think!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6wuh3hsjzp22 ... M.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1o6i8cy3wj5n0 ... M.mov?dl=0

The first video (Apr 04, 10 35 40 PM) sounds much better to me. I find it much easier to follow. The other track has something weird going on with the bass as well - Kind of shut in or compressed. I'm pleased I can hear a clear musical difference between tracks - something I've struggled to hear on my own recordings. Curious what the difference is between them - I can't see anything obvious.

[beck]

Here are a couple more system videos. Hopefully they are a bit more organized in terms of overlap and volume level. Let me know what you think!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6wuh3hsjzp22 ... M.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1o6i8cy3wj5n0 ... M.mov?dl=0

I absolutely agree with Charlie1. I think this is a perfect example of "in tune" and "out of tune". In the first clip you have a tuneful relation between keyboard and bass like when listening live and in the second clip it is destroyed sounding weird.

Very clear demonstration!

If outsiders should try to understand what we are talking about this is a textbook case to listen to.

[beck]

Rack aligned with new table position now. I took delivery of a glass shelf last night that was kindly donated. It's reported to be the same glass that Naim use. Posted the results below:

Archidee: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cmc058z1maoht ... e.MOV?dl=0
Isoblue with shelf: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsem08tp7d0r4 ... f.MOV?dl=0
Isoblue only: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2v9c5who7f46z ... y.MOV?dl=0

Apologies for the deluge but I want to make best use of the free time I have now.

Am I far off if I can feel your disappointment with our answers. :-) I do think this is a tricky one but you could keep your isoblue and experiment with the glass shelf on and of. I really like your Sondek on the isoblue. The sound is like a warm blanket around me. Then you could try the archidee again another time if you are not satisfied!

[tokenbrit]

Here are a couple more system videos. Hopefully they are a bit more organized in terms of overlap and volume level. Let me know what you think!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6wuh3hsjzp22 ... M.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1o6i8cy3wj5n0 ... M.mov?dl=0

This one was frustrating for me: last night initial pass on laptop speakers suggested the first link was better, but the laptop doesn't go loud, so I switched to headphones then thought the second was better... Then, this morning, I tried again on the desktop but that was choppy. All of these were listening streamed, so I gave in and downloaded the clips - now it's clearer & I agree with Charlie1 & beck. Not sure if that's just because I'd read that others preferred 1 vs 2 - struggling to work out if my ears are influencing my brain, or vice versa :/ At least I can hear a clear difference, after downloading, which is more than could be said from streaming ;)

[Charlie1]

Am I far off if I can feel your disappointment with our answers. :-) I do think this is a tricky one but you could keep your isoblue and experiment with the glass shelf on and of. I really like your Sondek on the isoblue. The sound is like a warm blanket around me. Then you could try the archidee again another time if you are not satisfied!

hehe. No, not disappointed. I had pretty much decided to stick with the Archidee anyway which is why I was happy to take everything apart to make space for it. I'm really enjoying the more insightful clearer sound more than anything. I'm not finding it greatly more musically engaging. I'm not churning through my collection with abandon but I have been wanting to listen more in the evening (normally I just listen during the daytime). The Isoblue does offer something of its own but it's hard to describe. There's a cohesiveness to the music that seems more than just the warm blanket you correctly identify. I wonder if I allow this quality to steer my evaluation too much during a tunedem. That's a wider question of mine that goes beyond just this comparison but I do keep thinking back to when Fredrik compared different ways of connecting Linn amps. He found that one amp per speaker was more cohesive but connecting them in serial was actually easier to follow the tune. I think that's right anyway.

PS sent you PM couple of days ago

[Charlie1]

This one was frustrating for me: last night initial pass on laptop speakers suggested the first link was better, but the laptop doesn't go loud, so I switched to headphones then thought the second was better... Then, this morning, I tried again on the desktop but that was choppy. All of these were listening streamed, so I gave in and downloaded the clips - now it's clearer & I agree with Charlie1 & beck. Not sure if that's just because I'd read that others preferred 1 vs 2 - struggling to work out if my ears are influencing my brain, or vice versa :/ At least I can hear a clear difference, after downloading, which is more than could be said from streaming ;)

I'm sure I am influenced by others when uncertain. I try to avoid seeing what others have written before listening and posting.

I also find the difference clearer when listening to the downloaded file.