Playground for practical listening exercises

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by John »

matthias wrote: 2021-11-18 22:38
John wrote: 2021-11-18 22:21 I use a Sonos Boost and it must contribute to why my Sonos System sounds so good.
According to the HP of Sonos it works only with Sonos devices.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Discodave »

Clip B moves me more. Like 2 different songs.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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I prefer Clip A. The interpretation is somewhat more expressive here. (At least that's how it seems to me when I play it back on my notebook).
However, I would have expected a greater musical difference between the streamers given the presumed price difference.
Perhaps the network and cabling in the shop is not as optimal as in Thomas' home?
Or the NG DSM sounds more musical when it doesn't make the "diversions" via the Klimax Kontrol?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by David Neel »

B.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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Both units were played through the Klimax Kontrol to equalize things with the DVC set off on the KDSMO. The network and the network cabling are far from optimal in the store but both units were subject to the same limitations (although the Källa likely would be better directly on a shelf). The music came from the same track off Qobuz.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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I found Laith Al-Saadi's album on Qobuz. Great musician. Since Laith is from Ann Arbor, I'm sure you've seen him live before and could enjoy his virtuoso guitar playing and his expressive singing.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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Pedro wrote: 2021-11-19 23:49 I found Laith Al-Saadi's album on Qobuz. Great musician. Since Laith is from Ann Arbor, I'm sure you've seen him live before and could enjoy his virtuoso guitar playing and his expressive singing.
Yes, I've seen him live a couple of times.
The album that clip comes from is "Real" and really kicks ass. Notes from his page on it:
"Featuring: Laith Al-Saadi (Guitar, Vocals), Jim Keltner (Drums), Lee Sklar (Bass), Larry Goldings (Organ), Jimmy Vivino (Guitar, Background Vocals), Tom Scott (Sax), Lee Thornberg (Trumpet), Brandon Fields (Baritone Sax), Nick Lane (Trombone)
Recorded Live to 2 tracks
With no mixing, editing, overdubbing, auto-tuning, limiting or compression. Music isn't recorded this way any more."

Just a few heavy hitters on that list of musicians!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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ThomasOK wrote: 2021-11-19 23:11 Both units were played through the Klimax Kontrol to equalize things with the DVC set off on the KDSMO. The network and the network cabling are far from optimal in the store but both units were subject to the same limitations (although the Källa likely would be better directly on a shelf). The music came from the same track off Qobuz.
What were the control points and method by which each streamer played back the Qobuz track? Was this Airplay to Källa, and is there a way to Airplay to the NGKDSM, or does a Qobuz app take care of that, to one or both streamers? Just trying to understand how close each was to its best, even if one’s Best was oBviously Better than the Alternative offering ;)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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B!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Scooter62 »

B.

The first time I listened to each was at a background level through my iPad speaker - there didn’t seem like a compelling difference between the two. Using decent (ESS 422's) headphones with the same Apple device and playback set at a performance-like volume level, it was clear that B was very much better.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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I listened on my iPhone and prefer B. I’d like to Airplay the files to my big system and reevaluate in the morning.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Tendaberry »

Sorry folks, but I'm going to go against the stream here. On A I wanted to listen to the track to end, his voice and guitar playing were more expressive and the drums not so plodding. When I switched to B, I rather quickly lost interest. Heard on an iMac.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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Only thing that matters is what you like. Imo.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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David Neel wrote: 2021-11-19 23:07B.
That was listening through earphones on my tablet. After reading Tendaberry's comments, I've repeated the comparison with my PC, output going into main system. This time: A.

As Sam Goldwyn said: my indecision is final.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by matthias »

Sorry,
I don't know why but both don't sound very compelling to me. This is not the case when I listen to the track directly via Qobuz/MBP/HP.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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I listened on Android phone, and then on iPad... Initially I thought A, I think... "think" because I was trying to listen to each without reference to whether it was clip A or B. What I think was A seemed more interesting... When I listened on the iPad, I deliberately employed 'wifedem': I made sure I knew which was which but without telling; just playing each in turn. This time we both felt that B just felt more musical & naturally engaging; A felt a little exaggerated in comparison. So that's 1 vote for A, but 2 votes for B from here.

On the subject of listening to the clips on different devices, whether that be Android phone or iPad os tablet, on headphones, or via a main system: is a better system going to give more insight, or is it going to add its own color and room interaction that could work with or against the room interaction if the recordings? My own sense is keep it simple, and as direct as possible on phone or iPad, with or without headphones. That way you're adding as little as possible to the replay of the clips, comparing them as is, with as little interaction with your own room & listening environment as possible, and getting the truest(?) representation of what was heard & recorded... Aren't you? (asking because I don't know)

I find it interesting that a few have changed their minds, including myself. In a way it's disappointing that there isn't a unanimously clear winner, here or playing along at home, but then I remind myself we're comparing devices at vastly different price points, and with one stacked on top of other electronics.

Ultimately both are good otherwise it would be unanimous, but one sounds better to me. I know which I prefer (I think ;) and I know which one I can afford - I hope they're the same. Regardless this has been a thoroughly interesting and a somewhat challenging comparison. Thanks for posting, Tom.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Tony Tune-age »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-11-20 16:35 What I think A seemed more interesting...When I listened on the iPad, I deliberately employed 'wifedem': I made sure I knew which was which but without telling; just playing each in turn. This time we both felt that B just felt more musical & naturally engaging; A felt a little exaggerated in comparison. So that's 1 vote for A, but 2 votes for B from here.

I find it interesting that a few have changed their minds, including myself. In a way it's disappointing that there isn't a unanimously clear winner, here or playing along at home, but then I remind myself we're comparing devices at vastly different price points, and with one stacked on top of other electronics.
(+1) And this is similar to my experience as well, not always a clear winner.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by ThomasOK »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-11-20 05:25
ThomasOK wrote: 2021-11-19 23:11 Both units were played through the Klimax Kontrol to equalize things with the DVC set off on the KDSMO. The network and the network cabling are far from optimal in the store but both units were subject to the same limitations (although the Källa likely would be better directly on a shelf). The music came from the same track off Qobuz.
What were the control points and method by which each streamer played back the Qobuz track? Was this Airplay to Källa, and is there a way to Airplay to the NGKDSM, or does a Qobuz app take care of that, to one or both streamers? Just trying to understand how close each was to its best, even if one’s Best was oBviously Better than the Alternative offering ;)
Control point for both was my iPad Mini 6. It was of course running to the Källa through the Lejonklou Protokoll (which is not Airplay) and used the Qobuz app. While you can treat Linn streamers as an Airplay device (they call it NetAux and I don't know what they did to implement it) it is not the recommended way to play to a Linn streamer. So this was done using the latest Linn app which directly supports Qobuz. So each unit was being used in the way recommended by the manufacturer.
matthias wrote: 2021-11-20 14:20 Sorry,
I don't know why but both don't sound very compelling to me. This is not the case when I listen to the track directly via Qobuz/MBP/HP.

Matt
Unless I am mistaken the point of the clips posted up here are to compare them to each other and give an opinion. In my experience it is relatively pointless to compare clips made off speakers into an iPhone with the sound coming direct through any kind of normal system, even a notebook and headphones.

I did mention that the network and network cabling in the store were not optimal but were the same for both. It uses very long runs of whatever run of the mill Ethernet cabling the contractors put in, running to punchdown blocks and jumpers into a mix of Netgear and Luxul switches and an older AirPort Extreme. Obviously both units would perform better with the kind of network topology Fredrik recommends for Källa.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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I listened again Airplaying from the Dropbox app to my big monitors and I still think B is a bit better. It’s not a huge difference but the notes, sustain and timing of the first few bars just sound more right on B.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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Everything was better for me on B.
Simply listening through a Samsung 8. Nothing else.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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I listened on both my phone (most musical device I own) and my computer (least musical device I own) and preferred B on both, but I was second guessing my decision because B sounds more hifi to me too. I just listened again and I still prefer B.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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I agree. Thought initially oh this is the hifi clip but it was just better musically and for sound.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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To my ears.
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