Playground for practical listening exercises

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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beck
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

I am as surpriced as you are!
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lejonklou
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou »

Big difference between those two clips!

I find 1322 much better.

My next question is: Have you tried fine tuning the tracking force by ear? No need to use the scale, just go up and down from the 1.75 you've already measured.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

lejonklou wrote:Big difference between those two clips!

I find 1322 much better.

My next question is: Have you tried fine tuning the tracking force by ear? No need to use the scale, just go up and down from the 1.75 you've already measured.
Not yet but I will. So many questions come to my mind with the latest experience. I find it absolutely amazing that the pitch relations fall into place when finding the right tracking force. Records I before did not listen to I now enjoy. I have used my Klyde with too much force pressuring down towards the record.
The cynic in me tells me it is Linn trying to make us wear down our cartridges quicker! So maybe there is nothing wrong with the bias setting. It could be down to the tracking weight dial!?

To any tracking weight there is a "best" bias setting. That is what we have been listening for in Charlie1's clips but maybe the tracking force is not the right one?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

beck wrote:I find it absolutely amazing that the pitch relations fall into place when finding the right tracking force. Records I before did not listen to I now enjoy. I have used my Klyde with too much force pressuring down towards the record.
Glad you are enjoying a free upgrade too! :)

If you're like me then it's slightly tinged with a feeling that you've been missing out on what should have been there all along. Still, better to find out now than later, or never.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

I would not have had a precise enough system to even care about it 2 years ago but with the latest improvements it now becomes obvious.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

beck wrote:I would not have had a precise enough system to even care about it 2 years ago but with the latest improvements it now becomes obvious.
Does preciseness really stop you appreciating these types of improvements though?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

Maybe you are right but at the same time I find our search for more true and better sound so exciting and rewarding that I could not care much about the past. I have enjoyed what I have had and it has given me much plessure as it does now too but with a more critical set of ears listening.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

I would like to show you all how my system has evolved lately and by chance it is possible. I have got three clips with the same music playing.
The first one is from before I realised that my cables needed to be "dressed" better:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/696 ... G_1279.MOV

The second clip is after dressing the cables better and tightening the screws on my equipment:

link removed

The third is after I also changed the needle pressure and bias on my Ekos to messured 1.75:

link removed

My system has all the way made music I enjoyed but the sound has gone from heavy red wine to a more light sparkling white wine kind of sound. Pitch relations are much better portrayed now.

Next step will be to fine tune the Ekos settings by ear.

Latest: Now tuned by ear ending with messured 1.63 and bias set equally. It is facinating that you can hear the difference!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/696 ... G_1340.MOV
Last edited by beck on 2016-06-22 20:45, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

They all sound very good to me. The latest clip (1324) definitely seems the bigger step forward of the two although not a pronounced as it was in the Ekos SE thread. This one encourages me to carry on listening the most. Glad someone else is also benefiting from all this. Happy listening! :)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

lejonklou wrote: My next question is: Have you tried fine tuning the tracking force by ear? No need to use the scale, just go up and down from the 1.75 you've already measured.
It has now been done and added to my previous post above. It is quite amazing how very small adjustments can make a big difference. Now try to sit still to this next rocker! :-) :

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/696 ... G_1343.MOV
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

That was great! I know it's a bit silly to even think this when it's just a video clip, but the timing seems absolutely on the mark. Keep on rockin'!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK »

After a brief listen I felt each sounded better than the previous in the order posted: 1279, 1311, 1324, 1340 with 1340 definitely where it all seems to come together. Interestingly, even though I felt each one got better I felt the change from 1311 to 1324 was the smallest improvement and the step to 1340 was easily a bigger change for the better.

You said this is an Ekos you are running? If so did you tune the anti-skating by ear or just set it the same as the tracking force that was most musical? If the latter I would recommend adjusting the anti-skating by ear as well and try the range from 1.9 to 1.95 just to see if it is better there.

Nice rocker at roll it all up.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

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ThomasOK wrote: You said this is an Ekos you are running? If so did you tune the anti-skating by ear or just set it the same as the tracking force that was most musical? If the latter I would recommend adjusting the anti-skating by ear as well and try the range from 1.9 to 1.95 just to see if it is better there.
Yes, I tried it but the natural spot with my weird Ekos1 is with bias equally set. I know for a fact that before I bought this Ekos used it had been sent back to Linn because of a sticky bearing.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK »

Cool. Like I said I thought it sounded good, it just can't hurt to check.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK »

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

Good piece of music to choose.

I do prefer the Harmoni rack in the third clip. It sounds quite a bit clearer and easier to follow.

I prefer the first clip to the second one. I can't tell if they are the same table on this little iPhone or perhaps some other change. I can see another table on the left but can't tell if you've swapped them. I'm hoping the first is the Archidee and second is an AudioTech but knowing my skills it's probably the other way around.

Shame no one in the UK wants to take on the Harmoni. Anders advised against importing one and setting it up myself.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou »

I'm with Charlie on this one.

The first clip appears to have a certain dry old school HiFi sound to it. Pretty good.

The second clip is odd. It feels a bit like it's been run through a compressor.

The third is probably the best. Very open and easy to access. But I like the first as well!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou »

beck wrote:
lejonklou wrote: My next question is: Have you tried fine tuning the tracking force by ear? No need to use the scale, just go up and down from the 1.75 you've already measured.
It has now been done and added to my previous post above. It is quite amazing how very small adjustments can make a big difference. Now try to sit still to this next rocker! :-) :

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/696 ... G_1343.MOV
It's very easy to conclude that your system sounds really good!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

lejonklou wrote:I'm with Charlie on this one.

The first clip appears to have a certain dry old school HiFi sound to it. Pretty good.

The second clip is odd. It feels a bit like it's been run through a compressor.

The third is probably the best. Very open and easy to access. But I like the first as well!
What has happened to you Charlie1? Have you tuned your ears? ;-)

I am the one lurking in the background waiting for others to give me the answer! :-)

Joking aside I agree with the comments made above. Actually spot on Lejonklou!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

beck wrote: What has happened to you Charlie1? Have you tuned your ears? ;-)
Well, I stopped using tune dem, or at least my idea of it. Could be luck though - we'll see :)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by u252agz »

lejonklou wrote:I'm with Charlie on this one.

The first clip appears to have a certain dry old school HiFi sound to it. Pretty good.

The second clip is odd. It feels a bit like it's been run through a compressor.

The third is probably the best. Very open and easy to access. But I like the first as well!

I agree that the second one is the one which stands out - and not In a good way.

First and third sound good - not sure if I have a preference on the I phone speakers .
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko »

I agree with everyone too.

I'd rank them 3,1,2 in order of best to worst, with 3 and 1 being much closer.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK »

I should have responded earlier as people have been wondering what the three clips are all about. As some have guessed the first one is an Archidee, a quite musical stand as you can hear. Number three is obviously the Mimer K - the only shelf/rack I have found more musical than the Archidee. In my experience the Tor and even the Mimer 3 were not as musical as the Archidee. However, that was before the use of Spruce and a thinner board, plus the larger holes were discovered. So an optimized Mimer 3 would be closer, although it still isn't as musical as a Mimer K.

As to number two, that is something I am experimenting with that I'm not ready to talk about yet. When I am further along there will be additional clips that are more informative.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

ThomasOK wrote:As to number two, that is something I am experimenting with that I'm not ready to talk about yet. When I am further along there will be additional clips that are more informative.
Mmm - interesting!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

I thought this might be a turn up for the books but I'm pretty sure you will all agree on what's best. In fact I think it's easier via the clips than it was in the room. There was something nice and comforting about 'lid on' listening in the room, but listening to the clips it just sounds boring. It's been reported that Ivor thinks lid on is better but I can't hear that in these clips.

TC1 lid off https://www.dropbox.com/s/ogxazi4vm2xpe ... f.MOV?dl=0
TC1 lid on https://www.dropbox.com/s/oloeiciq49pu6 ... n.MOV?dl=0
TC2 lid on https://www.dropbox.com/s/imrzcix0m21y8 ... n.MOV?dl=0
TC2 lid off https://www.dropbox.com/s/0d9od8t8g6fbe ... f.MOV?dl=0

I couldn't get the first track out of my head all day. I really like this album. A good recording too, for 80s digital.
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