Playground for practical listening exercises

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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AlbannachFE
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE »

I think a better source might be required, but:

Linn amps - timing not great, and rhythmically poor; it all sounds a bit of mess, tbh, and not very interesting; the music plods along with not much seemingly happening to engage the listener.

Naim amps (32.5) - much better timing, and rhythmically in a different league, more control, ties the music together; you can hear the different elements working together, resulting in a more interesting, expressive and engaging performance (relatively speaking).

BTW, is this an example of what some might call a mullet? ;-)

(first comparison links, with the 42.5, not found)
Charlie1
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

You are a true Naimee that's for sure. I think I have one foot in the Prat camp and one in the Tune camp. I suppose one benefit is that I can hear how both sides offer genuine musical benefits, but I also wonder if folks firmly in one camp or other get more pleasure from their system. I suspect we will never know.

What's your least disliked Linn amp?

Yes, a full on mullet. Only cos theres no phono in the Kairn Pro and I don't own a standalone phono stage. It's done the job though.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-08-15 23:20 You are a true Naimee that's for sure. I think I have one foot in the Prat camp and one in the Tune camp. I suppose one benefit is that I can hear how both sides offer genuine musical benefits, but I also wonder if folks firmly in one camp or other get more pleasure from their system. I suspect we will never know.

What's your least disliked Linn amp?

Yes, a full on mullet. Only cos theres no phono in the Kairn Pro and I don't own a standalone phono stage. It's done the job though.
Naimee in the pejorative sense, favoured by Naim-Bashers? No.

Someone who uses (JV era) Naim because they haven't found anything as, let alone more, musically satisfying, despite trying lots of alternatives over the years? Yes.

As for my 'least disliked' Linn amps, tbh, they are all quite similar in being tonally lean/cool, but smooth, with so-so timing, and not great rhythm or dynamics; the end result being quite laid back with some music, yet (what I perceive as) artificiality pacey on others, due to their (relative) failure to reveal and express rhythmic interplay. The end result is usually inoffensive and easy listening, that goes along at much the same 'level', rhythmically and dynamically, but as a result, is not particularly rewarding musically, to my ears.
(BTW, and unusually IME, in your clip, the Linn amps come over as a bit shouty and aggressive when the track 'kicks in' - servicing required, or a result of the mullet?)

However, for context, all things are relative, and I've found the majority of HiFi equipment, to varying degrees, being little more than nice (though some has been rather nasty, too), 'detailed', and 'impressive' sounding, but musically poor; I would certainly use Linn in preference to, say, Audiolab, Krell, Chord Electronics... to name but a few.

I've always liked the (pre-cirkus in particular) LP12, though! :-)

I'm not wedded to Naim; in fact I've been interested in trying Rega's CD players, and more recently, Audio Note's; however, to date, nothing has come to fruition despite my (significant) efforts to secure some for trial. :-(
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

AlbannachFE wrote: 2020-08-16 10:29
I'm not wedded to Naim; in fact I've been interested in trying Rega's CD players, and more recently, Audio Note's; however, to date, nothing has come to fruition despite my (significant) efforts to secure some for trial. :-(
Did I read this right? No one is interested in letting you try their equipment out in your own home?

If so, this is another hurdle for consumers to get the right perspective on the equipment they are interested in.

Listening in the store is ok but the listening can easily be tailored to suit what the store would like to sell.
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE »

beck wrote: 2020-08-16 10:47
AlbannachFE wrote: 2020-08-16 10:29
I'm not wedded to Naim; in fact I've been interested in trying Rega's CD players, and more recently, Audio Note's; however, to date, nothing has come to fruition despite my (significant) efforts to secure some for trial. :-(
Did I read this right? No one is interested in letting you try their equipment out in your own home?

If so, this is another hurdle for consumers to get the right perspective on the equipment they are interested in.

Listening in the store is ok but the listening can easily be tailored to suit what the store would like to sell.
You have a PM.
Last edited by AlbannachFE on 2020-08-16 20:43, edited 2 times in total.
Charlie1
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

AlbannachFE wrote: 2020-08-16 10:29 Naimee in the pejorative sense, favoured by Naim-Bashers? No.

Someone who uses (JV era) Naim because they haven't found anything as, let alone more, musically satisfying, despite trying lots of alternatives over the years? Yes.

As for my 'least disliked' Linn amps, tbh, they are all quite similar in being tonally lean/cool, but smooth, with so-so timing, and not great rhythm or dynamics; the end result being quite laid back with some music, yet (what I perceive as) artificiality pacey on others, due to their (relative) failure to reveal and express rhythmic interplay. The end result is usually inoffensive and easy listening, that goes along at much the same 'level', rhythmically and dynamically, but as a result, is not particularly rewarding musically, to my ears.
(BTW, and unusually IME, in your clip, the Linn amps come over as a bit shouty and aggressive when the track 'kicks in' - servicing required, or a result of the mullet?)

However, for context, all things are relative, and I've found the majority of HiFi equipment, to varying degrees, being little more than nice (though some has been rather nasty, too), 'detailed', and 'impressive' sounding, but musically poor; I would certainly use Linn in preference to, say, Audiolab, Krell, Chord Electronics... to name but a few.

I've always liked the (pre-cirkus in particular) LP12, though! :-)

I'm not wedded to Naim; in fact I've been interested in trying Rega's CD players, and more recently, Audio Note's; however, to date, nothing has come to fruition despite my (significant) efforts to secure some for trial. :-(
I hadn't really picked up on "Naimee" being only negative. Naim fan then.

Enjoyed reading your thoughts.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by u252agz »

AlbannachFE wrote: 2020-08-15 20:02 I think a better source might be required, but:

Linn amps - timing not great, and rhythmically poor; it all sounds a bit of mess, tbh, and not very interesting; the music plods along with not much seemingly happening to engage the listener.

Naim amps (32.5) - much better timing, and rhythmically in a different league, more control, ties the music together; you can hear the different elements working together, resulting in a more interesting, expressive and engaging performance (relatively speaking).

BTW, is this an example of what some might call a mullet? ;-)

(first comparison links, with the 42.5, not found)
I agree.

On these clips I prefer Naim.
Kalla/Sag M/Tun M3/242/LP12/Slip7

Kalla/Giella Pi/JBL308/RS2e

Majik LP12/Boazu/110s
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

AlbannachFE wrote: 2020-08-16 10:29 Someone who uses (JV era) Naim because they haven't found anything as, let alone more, musically satisfying, despite trying lots of alternatives over the years? Yes
Did you ever try Exposure (JF era)?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

My original silver interconnects once again compared with my (original) blacks:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/603cvk7ntg1sb ... 7.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/js1j4tymwkono ... 6.mov?dl=0

Your choice. Make your pick. :-)



P.s. If you look closely you can see which is which.
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by springwood64 »

beck wrote: 2020-08-17 15:20 My original silver interconnects once again compared with my (original) blacks:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/603cvk7ntg1sb ... 7.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/js1j4tymwkono ... 6.mov?dl=0

Your choice. Make your pick. :-)



P.s. If you look closely you can see which is which.
17.08 sounds flat to me compared to 13.08 - I pick 13.08
Pete

Linn Axis, Kinki, Källa (GS308T+Amplifi HD x 2 + BJC), Boazu, Espeks
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by FairPlayMotty »

beck wrote: 2020-08-17 15:20 My original silver interconnects once again compared with my (original) blacks:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/603cvk7ntg1sb ... 7.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/js1j4tymwkono ... 6.mov?dl=0

Your choice. Make your pick. :-)



P.s. If you look closely you can see which is which.
17.08 for me (I own multiple pairs of both so thanks Beck!).
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

As we all know interconnects do not always sound the same even though being the same make. We all have to compare our own sets of interconnects at home.

This is merely an exercise in listening. Nothing more, nothing less.

No right or wrong. Your choice is what counts.
Playing cd’s…………
FairPlayMotty
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by FairPlayMotty »

You're right Beck but clips sometimes validate your own hearing. The one thing I know for certain with interconnects is I bought too many pairs over the years :-)
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

FairPlayMotty wrote: 2020-08-17 16:51 You're right Beck but clips sometimes validate your own hearing. The one thing I know for certain with interconnects is I bought too many pairs over the years :-)
Luckily I never got started on that. :-)
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Whatsmynaim »

Both are awesome for being CD but 17.08 keeps it together while 13.08 breaks it apart.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

Yeah, I like the timing of 17.08 and the tunefulness of 13.08. I don't really have a clear favourite. I think the (relatively) flat pitch would irritate me a bit less than the wonky timing. Just a case of which one allows me to more easily relax and forget I'm listening to a stereo. It's the same reason why I'm gonna stick with my vintage Naim amps rather than go down the Linn Kairn/Klout route, which is definitely tempting.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

Some great comments guys and I get them all except a small part of what charlie1 wrote but I will have a talk with him in privat! ☠️☠️💣☠️☠️

As you can see (if you look for it) the 17.08 is using my silvers and the 13.08 is using my blacks. At the moment I am trying out my silvers to get a feel of how it is when I go back to black!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko »

13.08’s for me. Are they blacks or silvers?


Edit:
Ah, they’re blacks. Excellent!
beck
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

Once again it has been very enlightening to share clips on this forum.

The slightly “flat” sound from my silvers is the deal breaker for me. I can hear why I prefer my blacks with their non stressful timing and open harmonics. There are pros and cons and in the end we all have to make our own pick.

I really like these open discussions with different comments from different people. It goes to show that we notice different things in the clips and together we get a more complete picture of what is going on.


P.S. I think (just a guess) in part the silvers were made by Linn to get a more “pleasing” sound out of digital sources.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

beck wrote: 2020-08-17 15:20 My original silver interconnects once again compared with my (original) blacks:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/603cvk7ntg1sb ... 7.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/js1j4tymwkono ... 6.mov?dl=0

Your choice. Make your pick. :-)



P.s. If you look closely you can see which is which.
Hi Beck,
Both are very good.
Slightly ... for me 13.08 have advantage, more nuances and in tune, especially vocal ...
Music First ...
Vlado
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Whatsmynaim »

beck wrote: 2020-08-18 08:10 P.S. I think (just a guess) in part the silvers were made by Linn to get a more “pleasing” sound out of digital sources.
If I remember correctly the Linn silver was released about a year or so after their Karik/Numeric CD player so it could've been tailor-made for the digital sound. Still many of us on this forum (myself included) think of the silver as the better cable. However you're so good at tune dem that I'm ready to re-evaluate this.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by FairPlayMotty »

beck wrote: 2020-08-18 08:10 P.S. I think (just a guess) in part the silvers were made by Linn to get a more “pleasing” sound out of digital sources.
I bought my Linn amps before my Ikemi. The amps were bought from the Linn shop in Glasgow. I bought the silver interconnects with the amps. The Ikemi was via a Linn dealer in Edinburgh - they used the black interconnects at the demo.

Your comment about the consistency of interconnect build resonated. It also applies to the HiFi. I had one Ikemi faulty out of the box. I used a demo unit until a new one was built - the new one was never at the same level as the demo.
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

Yes, I have been lucky with my one pair of blacks. I think the silvers as a make are at a higher level but we all have to test the interconnects we have at home ourselves to be sure.
Playing cd’s…………
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Rega ELA vs Naim IBL

Post by Charlie1 »

My good condition pair of Rega ELA 1.25 vs a tatty pair of Naim IBLs that I've borrowed.

I don't have spikes for the ELAs so left them off the IBLs as well.

I've not tried to match volume as they were taken on different days and it's just a bit of fun. Same source and amps though.

Track 1
ELAs: https://www.dropbox.com/s/86k4rr8h1do4t ... 1.MOV?dl=0
IBLs: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sbxd5rxmp866l ... 1.MOV?dl=0

Track 2
ELAs: https://www.dropbox.com/s/krea513uxaprr ... 3.MOV?dl=0
IBLs: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pqunut2skr270 ... 0.MOV?dl=0
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

We are being spoiled by you Charlie1! :-)

Great music and I find both speakers enjoyable. The ELAs are a bit more forgiving and easy on the ear while the IBLs are more hard on in character.
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