ThomasOK wrote: ↑2024-01-24 23:32
I'm definitely liking the music coming through these, although I do miss the other notes. I have always loved Bouree and am big into Jethro Tull, at least up through most of the 70s.
The bass has a very rounded, juicy quality that I quite like and the notes are easy to follow. You might want to look at what some others have done with upward facing woofers or drivers. The original Hegeman 2, the Harmon Kardon Citation 13, the various Shahinians and some of the Allison Acoustics might be worth looking at to see what they did and why they did it.
Yes, the missing instruments do tend to make familiar sounding tracks sound a bit unusual!
I’m not familiar with the Hegeman 2. Unless the Hegeman came earlier, I believe the Citation 13 was the first speaker with upward firing drivers. Dick Shahinian had a role in the design of the 13’s and used his experience in the project to develop his own range of loudspeakers. I’m also vaguely familiar with the Allison speakers. Although the 13’s, Shahinian’s and Allison’s had non-forward firing drive units, their reasons for doing so were slightly different. The 13’s were designed to “fill the room with sound”, Shahinian was aiming for “poly directional” sound radiation and Allison believed that an upward facing bass unit when positioned as close as possible to the rear wall ensured the closest approximation to an ideal 2π bass loading. Linkwitz also liked the idea of an upward facing bass unit, but his thought was that the unit then more efficiently “loaded the room”, or something along those lines. My reason for using an upward facing bass unit was because I thought it sounded better. So there doesn’t seem to be any consensus on why upward facing drivers might be a good idea!
I think Stewart Hegeman actually got there first as he designed an omni-directional two way with upward facing drivers that was sold by Eico as the HF-S2 in 1958. In addition it used an unusual slot-loaded, folded horn type of bass loading system and a very different tweeter. Stewart Hegeman worked as a contract designer for Harmon Kardon and designed their tube Citation series electronics and possibly the first transistor versions. I imagine that there was a lot of cross pollination there. Richard Shahinian did design the Citation 13s (which also used an unusual distributed bass loading of the three midwoofers) and both he and Stewart carried their similar designs forward into their own lines. It is true that these designs were intended to be mostly omni-directional, or as Richard puts it to more accurately simulate the sound launch of an orchestra with most sound heading forward but some reflecting off the back wall. They do appear to be different than what you are doing but I thought they might be interesting in case anything like the sloped top or similar radiation pattern of the tweeter had any use.
Anyway, if anyone is interested here are articles about the Eico HF-S2 and the Hegeman 1 (the 2 number I posted above was wrong, I was confusing it with his HAPI-2 preamp).
I felt #2, 2857 was the most musical and tended to make me want to move with the music. I felt #3, 2857 lost that and to me #1, 2856 was the least enjoyable sounding. It added some bass weight but I felt it was too much and the rest of the spectrum didn't move as well.
I think closer together may well be a good idea and I would also try between #1 and #2 in distance from the back wall.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
ThomasOK wrote: ↑2024-02-01 22:13
I felt #2, 2857 was the most musical and tended to make me want to move with the music. I felt #3, 2857 lost that and to me #1, 2856 was the least enjoyable sounding. It added some bass weight but I felt it was too much and the rest of the spectrum didn't move as well.
I think closer together may well be a good idea and I would also try between #1 and #2 in distance from the back wall.
Thanks for the Roger Russell link Thomas. I found the article really interesting, particularly the designers goal of maintaining a good phase and transient response and the suggestion to evaluate the loudspeakers using musical criteria. How little things have changed in the intervening 65 years!
One question please regarding the placement, do you have your equipment racks and devices between the speakers or not? what is recommended please? because a rack has a certain depth and if I place it between the speakers, and the speakers should be placed near the backwall, don't they interfere with the rack?
Spannko wrote: ↑2024-02-02 13:59
What source, amplifier and cables are you using Erho?
WiiM Pro Plus --> Purist Audio Jade Coax --> DAC in Hegel H95 integrated amp --> Speaker Cables selfmade from my dealer --> Russell K Black 50 speaker on Solidsteel SS-6 stands, powercables to try one selfmade from dealer and an Audioquest NRG X.
Streamer and Router powered with Ifi iPower2, all connected as described for Källa, one Ikea and one Lavardin powerstrip.
also laying around Straight Wire Musicable speaker cable.
Streaming Qobuz, Spotify, and Roon using with NAS Qnap
erho wrote: ↑2024-02-02 12:04Yes of course i try now with 5 mm and then further down, do u have your rack between the speakers?
My rack is to the left of the speakers, a little to the left of the center of the room. Unfortunately my tv (on a lowboard)has to be between the speakers, because it won't fit anywhere else.
erho wrote: ↑2024-02-02 12:04Yes of course i try now with 5 mm and then further down, do u have your rack between the speakers?
My rack is to the left of the speakers, a little to the left of the center of the room. Unfortunately my tv (on a lowboard)has to be between the speakers, because it won't fit anywhere else.
I feel that something isn’t quite right with any of these clips. It’s difficult to follow what is happening and where the music is going. Wrong distance apart? Possible. Something wrong with any of the units? Don’t know as I’m not familiar with them and how they should perform. Some cable that is terrible? Possible as well.
I find number 2 a little easier to make sense of than the other two.
I feel that something isn’t quite right with any of these clips. It’s difficult to follow what is happening and where the music is going. Wrong distance apart? Possible. Something wrong with any of the units? Don’t know as I’m not familiar with them and how they should perform. Some cable that is terrible? Possible as well.
I find number 2 a little easier to make sense of than the other two.
Hmm, that destroys me, not good, will try to upload 2 clips again
@erho
Fredrik (and we, for that matter) are always posting with honesty
If something doesn’t sound right, we say it.
It’s not to bash anyone or his/her system.
When it doesn’t sound right, there is room for improvement, like Fredrik said.
We can (methodically) help you, when you keep posting clips to compare A vs B (usually 2 to compare works easier then comparing 3 or more clips)
I advise you to scroll some pages back in this thread
There are really good examples of good/right sounding clips and some outstanding ones.
Sopper wrote: ↑2024-02-03 17:57
I advise you to scroll some pages back in this thread
There are really good examples of good/right sounding clips and some outstanding ones.
That way you can get familiar with “the tune”
I have followed Sopper's advice on this ^^^ in the past and found it very helpful in gaining confidence that I'm listening for the right things.
Initially it may not be too difficult to hear differences, but it can be tricky to figure out what is better. The clips in this thread can be very instructive.
It also takes time, and I found initially that I needed a few sessions of trying different positions before I heard the the best setup.
springwood64 wrote: ↑2024-01-11 22:01
The base and its 3 sets of washers (between the limestone and cabinet, underneath the bolt heads, between the spike lock nuts and the limestone) along with the spikes themselves seem to be quite influential on the sound.
I've finally got a set up that I can reliably dismantle and reassemble without changing the sound. I'm torquing the base bolts, and hand tightening with pliers the lock nuts+ washers for the spikes.
I'll let it bed in for a week or so and then reverse the brass washers between base and cabinet.
My family have been sucked in to this fun and are also amazed and bemused by how much better music this fiddling makes.
This now sounds a better again than the set up I recorded as 'brass'.
Sopper wrote: ↑2024-02-03 17:57
@erho
Fredrik (and we, for that matter) are always posting with honesty
If something doesn’t sound right, we say it.
It’s not to bash anyone or his/her system.
When it doesn’t sound right, there is room for improvement, like Fredrik said.
We can (methodically) help you, when you keep posting clips to compare A vs B (usually 2 to compare works easier then comparing 3 or more clips)
I advise you to scroll some pages back in this thread
There are really good examples of good/right sounding clips and some outstanding ones.
That way you can get familiar with “the tune”
thank you, but the older links do not work anymore for me
erho wrote: ↑2024-02-04 09:09
Do you have the speakers on the long wall?
My room is a complex shape as the whole floor is open plan.
The wall behind the speakers is recessed by about 60cm. This was designed to reduce the intrusion into the room of the speakers.
This wall is shorter than the distance to the facing wall. However, it's part of the wall that runs the length of the house, and which is much longer than than the facing distance.
erho wrote: ↑2024-02-04 09:09
Do you have the speakers on the long wall?
My room is a complex shape as the whole floor is open plan.
The wall behind the speakers is recessed by about 60cm. This was designed to reduce the intrusion into the room of the speakers.
This wall is shorter than the distance to the facing wall. However, it's part of the wall that runs the length of the house, and which is much longer than than the facing distance.
Sopper wrote: ↑2024-02-03 17:57
@erho
Fredrik (and we, for that matter) are always posting with honesty
If something doesn’t sound right, we say it.
It’s not to bash anyone or his/her system.
When it doesn’t sound right, there is room for improvement, like Fredrik said.
We can (methodically) help you, when you keep posting clips to compare A vs B (usually 2 to compare works easier then comparing 3 or more clips)
I advise you to scroll some pages back in this thread
There are really good examples of good/right sounding clips and some outstanding ones.
That way you can get familiar with “the tune”
thank you, but the older links do not work anymore for me
