Playground for practical listening exercises

[beck]

During the video they mention that they had to find an original CD master to get good music out of the speakers (at 12.50). The remastered versions sounded flat.
I experience the same when listening to CD’s using my CD player. The same has been said and experienced when playing vinyl.

All we can do is to listen and compare.

[lejonklou]

Here's a practical listening exercise:

Can you hear any difference between these two clips? It's perfectly OK if you can't!

https://lejonklou.com/353.MOV
https://lejonklou.com/352.MOV

[Arjen]

Here's a practical listening exercise:

Can you hear any difference between these two clips? It's perfectly OK if you can't!

https://lejonklou.com/353.MOV
https://lejonklou.com/352.MOV

I cannot, maybe slightly less background noise in the second one.

[Spannko]

Here's a practical listening exercise:

Can you hear any difference between these two clips? It's perfectly OK if you can't!

https://lejonklou.com/353.MOV
https://lejonklou.com/352.MOV

For me, 353 sounds groovy, whilst 352 sounds disjointed.

[tpetsch]

253 is more alive, crisp and in tune, I like it!

252 is kinda flat by comparison -seemingly slightly muffled- and the band isn't playing together as tight, overall less in tune.

[markiteight]

253 exaggerates the separation between instruments.
252 sounds more organic, congruous.

I'll take 252.

[Whatsmynaim]

252 sounds less diffuse than 253, but 253 is probably still musically better. I find it difficult to decide though to be honest.

[tokenbrit]

Yes, I can hear a difference. Seems like a split decision so far... And I'm only going to add to it ;)

I thought 52 was more fun to begin with, but it doesn't develop quite as well... 53 didn't click for me to begin with; a little too individually instrumented, but got it together later in the clip. Felt like 53 had a bit more body to it too - any chance of the initial flow of 52, combined with the drive of the second half of 53? :)

[fatjulio]

I like 352. It's more cohesive and full and direct. The other is thinner and distant, separated.

[springwood64]

They *sound* the same to me. I could not describe any difference.

However, I want to keep listening to 352 (despite no real enthusiasm for jazz), but I don't feel the same for 353.

[Tendaberry]

I prefer 353, it has a natural groove. In comparison 352 seems slightly disjointed, which kept me wanting to return to 353.

[Charlie1]

353 was a bit more fun to listen to.

[lunch]

I found them hard to tell apart but have a slight preference for 352.

[Arjen]

Here's a practical listening exercise:

Can you hear any difference between these two clips? It's perfectly OK if you can't!

https://lejonklou.com/353.MOV
https://lejonklou.com/352.MOV

I cannot, maybe slightly less background noise in the second one.

After a second listen, now during daytime I prefer 352, more smooth, more coherent, less pushy,

[Sopper]

353 here
352 was less swinging

[Hermann]

252 is more restrained, 253 sounds more direct. Prefer 252.

[Defender]

52 seems slower and more laid back - as 53 seems faster in comparison and more engaged I prefer 53

[Arjen]

Now @Fredrik, what are you comparing in this clip? What new can we expect? Or is this just for fun?

[lejonklou]

Thank you for all your comments!

The system was the following and only the right channel was playing:

Linn LP12 with Keel, Radikal, Ekos SE/1, Krystal, grey T-kable and Trampolin
Entity 1.2 MC phono stage
Superkikkin analogue pre amp
Tundra Mono 3 prototype
Klångedang T1 loudspeaker

The difference between the two clips was one soldered joint in the interconnect between phono stage and preamp.

In clip 353, the joint was soldered with the soldering station set to 353 degrees Celcius.
In clip 352, the joint was soldered with the soldering station set to 352 degrees Celcius.

In the room, I find the difference surprisingly big. There is not that big a difference between e.g. 340 and 345 degrees, but around 352 to 353 there is a sharp peak in sonic character - and in musical performance. Every temperature below the peak sounds a little stiff (and gradually more so the lower it is). Every temperature above the peak sounds a little fat (and gradually more so the higher it is). I think the peak, the optimal temperature, lies somewhere in between 352 and 353.

[Sopper]

Just too crazy what 1 degree solder can do…

[Arjen]

Just too crazy what 1 degree solder can do…

Indeed. What if even no solder would be used making a the joint @.Fredrik?

[lejonklou]

If soldering isn’t used, one can for instance crimp the connection. Then a similar sonic peak in performance appears that relates to the crimping pressure. And the exact shape of the crimping matters, likely because it affects the pressure.

[ThomasOK]

I'm late to the party and I have to agree with many that the two were close and I had to go back and forth several times to be sure of what I was hearing. That said I preferred 353 as I felt it had a better flow. At first I thought it had a weird muted second note on the sax but then found it was on 352 as well so it seems to be on the recording. Sound wise I felt both were similar but I was able to follow the organ playing and drums a bit better on 353. Yeah, it would be interesting to hear what 352.5 would sound like. Time to switch the unit to Fahrenheit?

[lejonklou]

Switching to Fahrenheit on the station I’m using for this test (we use three different models and have evaluated many more, as they all sound a little different, which in part depends on how they control the tip temperature) is not possible without an external reprogramming unit.

I haven’t bought one of those yet, because I’m unsure of whether the number in Fahrenheit actually corresponds to the temperature in between 352 and 353, or whether it’s the same steps of temperature that are available but the displayed number is rounded off to the nearest integer.

If it’s the latter, there is no point in switching to Fahrenheit. But if the displayed number actually sets the tip temperature, 666 F would be 352.2 C and 667 would be 352.8 C. My guess is that I’d prefer 667.

Do you think it’s a good idea that I find one of those programming units and then post two clips of 666 versus 667 degrees Fahrenheit? Perhaps even 668 F, which is 353.3 C?

Oh my, this is so nerdy. But it’s my job! 🤷😀

[Hermann]

The example gives me something to think about. Thanks for the clips Fredrik.

After a few runs you can hear a clear difference. That's why I ask myself the questions. Is my soldering technique sufficient? Is the temperature constant enough when curing the solder even though I use the same model as recommended? Since there are still some K400 left, I'll paying more attention to temperature stability. It is actually very surprising to what extent a 1°C temperature difference can be heard at soldering points!