Playground for practical listening exercises

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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matthias
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by matthias »

I listened now with my iPhone 12 mini via the in-built speakers and prefer B in spite of a little bit more slam in A.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by ThomasOK »

As many (most) of you have likely guessed Clip A is the KDSMO and Clip B is the Källa. Källa off the Qobuz app and KDSMO off the Linn app using Qobuz both controlled by my iPad Mini 6. As mentioned the network wasn't the best but in the store they both sounded quite good. I prefer B and found the music on it so compelling I had to listen to the entire track on the Källa. Midway through there is a really great guitar solo followed by some even more powerful singing. After making the clips I had to text Fredrik: (You'll have to pardon my language.) "Shit Fredrik! This thing is scary! ...where he is singing loud and during the guitar solo before it I literally had goosebumps! From digital playback!!!" As you can imagine from those comments I really didn't expect that. The album "Real" by Laith Al-Saadi is something I have listened to many times and have really enjoyed. But we have been bugging him for a year to put out an LP. While I'd still like to hear an LP it really doesn't feel like a pressing need when I have the Källa.

So just to give some interesting perspective Linn came out with the Klimax DS in 2007 and the Organik/2020 variant is the 5th generation design. In addition it is a rethinking top to bottom with improvements in every part of the electronics and an entirely new in-house DAC. On the other hand this is the first Lejonklou Streamer/DAC. That people find them close and the majority prefer the Källa shows that this is quite an achievement.

Then we have economics. The KDSMO is $39,000. The Källa is $8495. That means you could buy 4 Källa and a Boazu 1.3 and have enough for the iPad Mini 6, Netgear GS108T and a couple 8' BCJ CAT6A cables and still have some change. Or a different option would be a Källa, 2 Sagatun Monos, 2 Tundra Monos, iPad Mini 6, Netgear GS108T, a couple 8' BCJ CAT6A cables and appropriate interconnects and speaker cables and have $9000 left over to go towards speakers. If I was the type to be hawking OxiClean I'd be shouting "The value proposition is through the roof!"

To be clear, both of these are really fine streamers and the Källa and the Linn will appeal to very different people in many cases. The Källa is a Streamer/DAC period. No inputs other than LAN, no outputs other than L and R RCA and no audiophile credentials. No 24/192, no DSD no MQA, no DVC, no uber-upsampling, etc. Just music. The Linn is a streamer/preamp with DVC and multiple inputs including analog (RCA and XLR), coax, optical, USB and HDMI plus coax, HDMI, RCA and XLR outputs. It supports all the audiophile approved numbers and letters above except MQA and has a display and cool knob. "You pays your money and you takes your choice."
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by matthias »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-11-20 23:06 The album "Real" by Laith Al-Saadi is something I have listened to many times and have really enjoyed.
This album is terrific.
I already listened to Track 6: "Last Time You'll See Me Cry"
Superb.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Lego »

On first listening I instantly preferred B as it started ,better intelligibility and seemed to have more space between the notes/chords but as it continued B seemed to be a bit sluggish and pedestrian made me feel queezy .A on the other hand is what I'd rather listen to, much more exciting with better groove.It basically gets on with it .
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Lego wrote: 2021-11-21 15:29
On first listening I instantly preferred B as it started ,better intelligibility and seemed to have more space between the notes/chords but as it continued B seemed to be a bit sluggish and pedestrian made me feel queezy .A on the other hand is what I'd rather listen to, much more exciting with better groove.It basically gets on with it .
A for me too for pretty much the same reasons.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by PetterS »

Late to the listening party but now I have gone back and forth on the phone and computer. Either way I do prefer B, musically and sound stage, separation of parts and clarity. Its not a big difference, but about the same difference as would make you call for a break in a recording session and demand a change of microphone setup. Would be interesting though to hear more clips with genre variety.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by u252agz »

I'm even later to the party.

A is impressive - but B is so much better.

I find the difference quite marked:

I can imagine listening to A and thinking ' this is great and really impressive' but I would switch off after a few mins or find something else to occupy my mind while it plays in the background - its also really good for impressing those who pop in to 'listen' to your expensive system for a quick listen.

But B is musically better and the only thing I might do here is to close the door and turn up the volume. Its better balanced between vocals and music, much more emotion in the voice, and I feel I understand the singer better. I would finish the track and most likely the album.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by David Neel »

My previous clips have all been from my android phone. I've now been playing with my new iPad mini 6. So here are a couple of pairs of clips which reflect some recent tweaking:

Inside: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xmu3i5o3kueti ... 1.MOV?dl=0
Out: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vzxnatug33ky ... 8.mov?dl=0

Upside: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yk54oqq9gm59 ... 2.mov?dl=0
Down: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mh4qwqby78tyn ... 7.mov?dl=0
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Pedro »

Inside / Out:
I like both recordings. "Inside" is a little more direct, "Out" a little more restrained, I hear the room in which the music system is playing more clearly.

Upside / Down:
Here "Down" is my favourite. "Upside" almost sounds a bit distorted (heard with Samsung Tab S5e).
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Spannko »

A is just hard work to listen to or try and boogie along with, and it possesses almost no musical merit. We can’t see the speakers, but with what’s on show I would expect so much more. Musically, I found B much better. For me, it wasn’t even close.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Spannko »

David Neel wrote: 2021-11-22 16:54 My previous clips have all been from my android phone. I've now been playing with my new iPad mini 6. So here are a couple of pairs of clips which reflect some recent tweaking:

Inside: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xmu3i5o3kueti ... 1.MOV?dl=0
Out: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vzxnatug33ky ... 8.mov?dl=0

Upside: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yk54oqq9gm59 ... 2.mov?dl=0
Down: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mh4qwqby78tyn ... 7.mov?dl=0
I struggled a bit with Inside/Out, but easily preferred Down to Upside. I’m looking forward to learning more about what we’ve been listening too!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Lego »

David Neel wrote: 2021-11-22 16:54 My previous clips have all been from my android phone. I've now been playing with my new iPad mini 6. So here are a couple of pairs of clips which reflect some recent tweaking:

Inside: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xmu3i5o3kueti ... 1.MOV?dl=0
Out: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vzxnatug33ky ... 8.mov?dl=0

Upside: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yk54oqq9gm59 ... 2.mov?dl=0
Down: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mh4qwqby78tyn ... 7.mov?dl=0
Down and out for me
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Scooter62 »

I agree inside/out was tougher to choose. I ended up seeking outside help. TUNE DEM MAN came to the rescue, and showed me the way - INSIDE!

On the second, DOWN was all over anything UPSIDE had to offer. DOWN wins!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tokenbrit »

David Neel wrote: 2021-11-22 16:54 My previous clips have all been from my android phone. I've now been playing with my new iPad mini 6. So here are a couple of pairs of clips which reflect some recent tweaking:

Inside: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xmu3i5o3kueti ... 1.MOV?dl=0
Out: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vzxnatug33ky ... 8.mov?dl=0

Upside: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yk54oqq9gm59 ... 2.mov?dl=0
Down: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mh4qwqby78tyn ... 7.mov?dl=0
If we're picking sides...
I get more insight from Out.
I come down in favour of Upside.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by David Neel »

Thank you for all the responses so far. I'll reveal all in about 24 hours. As one of the tracks seems to be difficult, here are two more:

Keeping: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g8d90lvy9udvc ... 0.mov?dl=0
Up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/41a5tumjz8q4f ... 9.MOV?dl=0

Staying: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cd2d5jkzbscad ... 2.mov?dl=0
In: https://www.dropbox.com/s/h19c3il4ma9yz ... 1.mov?dl=0
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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David Neel wrote: 2021-11-23 00:31 Thank you for all the responses so far. I'll reveal all in about 24 hours. As one of the tracks seems to be difficult, here are two more:

Keeping: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g8d90lvy9udvc ... 0.mov?dl=0
Up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/41a5tumjz8q4f ... 9.MOV?dl=0

Staying: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cd2d5jkzbscad ... 2.mov?dl=0
In: https://www.dropbox.com/s/h19c3il4ma9yz ... 1.mov?dl=0
Keeping & Staying this time
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Tendaberry »

Down is much more expressive and grips me more.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tokenbrit »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-11-23 00:22 If we're picking sides...
I get more insight from Out.
I come down in favour of Upside.
Repeat, w/ iPad this time, and results reversed - Inside & Down. Out just sounded awkward on the iPad… Upside & Down was interesting: the strings appeared more sonorous Up, but her voice more expressive Down.

I figure indecision is ok on DN clips ;) I used to be indecisive but now I’m not so sure :)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Scooter62 »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-11-23 01:28
David Neel wrote: 2021-11-23 00:31 Thank you for all the responses so far. I'll reveal all in about 24 hours. As one of the tracks seems to be difficult, here are two more:
Keeping & Staying this time
Keeping and Staying for me as well
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by David Neel »

Thank you all for your contributions. It's interesting that it is not clear cut, and time to reveal what you have been listening to!

When Spannko and Charlie1 visited me to listen to Källa, it beat my LP12, as it did the following day when sunbeamgls visited and collected Källa, I did work out that Entity sounded better sharing the quadraspire bronze shelf with the LP12, rather than a regular shelf on its own, and I have also carefully re-levelled and checked the cabling for power cables not touching signal cables.

So you have been listening to the LP12 (Booplinth, Karousel, AkRad/1, Keel, Ekos SE/1, Kandid, Entity) on Inside. Upside, Keeping and Staying.

Out, Down, Up and In are all my Debian Hakai, the same one referred to below:
Azazello wrote: 2021-10-11 13:27
Spannko wrote: 2021-10-10 13:48
We started with Hakai, which for me was just ok. It’s good value, but not something I’d be interested in pursuing. It’s a digital player which sounds like a digital player.
That was not a good sounding Hakai. Hakai at it's best is amazing. I would gladly replace my LP12 witht Hakai if it could perform consistently at it's highest level. The problem I have encountered is that the performance varies unpredictably between that and "ok".

But when Fredrik says Källa is "much better" than Hakai, I know what kind of Hakai he is talking about. Can't wait for it!!
What have I changed on my Hakai? Almost nothing... one difference is that I relaid my network, in anticipation of a future Källa, to the configuration recommended by Fredrik. Previously there was a GS 105 switch (feeding my PC) between the router and GS108T, and the switches and router were powered from the other side of the room. I bought a wireless adapter for the PC, eliminated the GS105, and moved the GS108T to the socket next to the main hifi strip. A second change is that (also on Fredrik's recommendation, I purchased a short two-socket strip which is now daisy-chained off the main one. Moving the Tundra Monos to the daisy-chained strip leaves a spare socket on the primary strip for Källa. (Previously my Hakai was powered from a second strip into the wall socket adjacent to the main strip wall socket - the socket which now powers the GS108T.)

I re-installed Hakai only to check that everything was working while I wait for Källa. I then had a huge, and very welcome, shock at what I heard! I am astounded at what can be achieved by tweaking network and power details. Suffice it to say I went several days before vinyl was played again.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tokenbrit »

David Neel wrote: 2021-11-23 20:59 Thank you all for your contributions. It's interesting that it is not clear cut, and time to reveal what you have been listening to!

So you have been listening to the LP12 (Booplinth, Karousel, AkRad/1, Keel, Ekos SE/1, Kandid, Entity) on Inside. Upside, Keeping and Staying.

Out, Down, Up and In are all my Debian Hakai, the same one referred to below:
...
What have I changed on my Hakai? Almost nothing... one difference is that I relaid my network... I am astounded at what can be achieved by tweaking network and power details.
So, tallying the results so far: Keeping & Staying were clear wins for LP12; Down a unanimous win for Hakai*, but Inside/Out was a 50:50 split of those who expressed a preference with a number undecided...

The network tweaks, (resolved ground loop) and power details have obviously been very worthwhile. Thanks for sharing, and happy listening to your Källa.


*disregarding my 1st vote
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

The Beatles being played using cd and vinyl.

Cd: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o5ktxg80ahfs1 ... 6.mov?dl=0

Vinyl: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7rcc0kfreovgl ... 2.mov?dl=0


It is not possible for me to make a completely fair comparison but possible to hear what each medium can do in my system.
The old vinyl clip uses my first lk100 that had a slightly different sound character than my latest lk100. The room itself has also changed somewhat since the vinyl clip.
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by ThomasOK »

Oh yeah, vinyl for me!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by FairPlayMotty »

beck wrote: 2021-12-08 12:26 The Beatles being played using cd and vinyl.

Cd: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o5ktxg80ahfs1 ... 6.mov?dl=0

Vinyl: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7rcc0kfreovgl ... 2.mov?dl=0


It is not possible for me to make a completely fair comparison but possible to hear what each medium can do in my system.
The old vinyl clip uses my first lk100 that had a slightly different sound character than my latest lk100. The room itself has also changed somewhat since the vinyl clip.
Which CD version is it Beck?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

This is early first digital master AAD put on cd (as far as I can tell).
Playing cd’s…………
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