Playground for practical listening exercises

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

Moderator: Staff

User avatar
springwood64
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 789
Joined: 2008-10-13 18:19
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by springwood64 »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-03-10 01:48
The grills are alive with the sound of music. Glad that you've been able to reunite a few of your favourite things... :)
Great fun and very enjoyable! Was a bit confused not to hear Julie Andrews, obvs ...

What are the white rectangles on the bottom shelves?
Pete

Linn Axis, Kinki, Källa (GS308T+Amplifi HD x 2 + BJC), Boazu, Espeks
tokenbrit
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2012-03-22 19:47
Location: New England

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tokenbrit »

springwood64 wrote: 2021-03-10 12:11 Was a bit confused not to hear Julie Andrews, obvs ...

What are the white rectangles on the bottom shelves?
Sorry - it wasn't meant as a Trapp

I'm sure Thomas will explain further but, while I'm apologising I should type something useful: the white rectangles are foam damping. The Harmoni racks sound better if you don't put equipment on the bottom level; the damping helps manage any residual vibration so that the rack performs optimally, and the music's seeping through...
beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2752
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-03-10 14:14
springwood64 wrote: Was a bit confused not to hear Julie Andrews, obvs ...
Sorry - it wasn't meant as a Trapp
We are talking about fun, not von (Trapp) tokenbrit!!! ;-)
Playing cd’s…………
tokenbrit
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2012-03-22 19:47
Location: New England

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tokenbrit »

beck wrote: 2021-03-10 14:26
tokenbrit wrote: 2021-03-10 14:14
springwood64 wrote: Was a bit confused not to hear Julie Andrews, obvs ...
Sorry - it wasn't meant as a Trapp
We are talking about fun, not von (Trapp) tokenbrit!!! ;-)
Apologies again. My only excuse is that it was late in the evening, and the sound of music from Tom's clip was a joy to behold
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Very nice Tom - good to have some more music on here. Been quite quiet lately.
OscarH
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 304
Joined: 2019-03-14 10:57
Location: Exile on Dane St.

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by OscarH »

Yeah, the sound of music trumps the sound of silence...
Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1266
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

hey Tom are you now using the Linn Silver Analogue II´s when "it's late in the evening, and all the music sees me through"?
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by ThomasOK »

Thanks all. I don't think the Silver IIs are in the system but I'd have to check to see if I left a pair in there. This isn't yet what I consider fully optimum but was meant to show that my system is back. The TM was repaired and has been run long enough to be fully burned in and I had just dialed in the voltage on the PS. The Ekos SE/1 is brand new with only a couple hours on it so the internal wire isn't burned in yet but I am using the same external arm cable as before which I repaired and tested. Everything else is pretty much as before. This is after playing a couple sides of records so everything was warmed up. I started with "Late In the Evening" which was not quite together and a little harsh. After a couple of records it was flowing better but I still found the horns a bit harsh. Then I demagnetized the record and it was much better. Record demagnetizing is still controversial even with me. I tried it once on a harsh sounding record when Fredrik was here and we all felt it was improved, then I tried it on a record that already sounded good and the guitar sounded a little less tuneful to all in the room. So I only use it now when I have a record that sounds harsh when I don't feel it should. In this case it worked and then I made the recording as I felt it was sounding quite musical.

Now I can enjoy records again (I hadn't played the LP12 for about a month or two waiting for the arm before I rebuilt the LP12). Plus I can try out some other things, like the long-awaited Silver IIs vs originals and various power strips. So there should be more clips before too long.

Oh, yeah. As mentioned by tokenbrit, the white blocks are damping for the rack. They have to be the precise right size and are cut from 1" thick dacron polyester. My experience is that the Harmoni rack is at its most musical as you see the one in the middle configured: 4 total shelves, only three of which are used, the top a Mimer K, the next two Tor shelves and the bottom a Reference bottom (basically an upside down Tor). There is another identical rack behind the right speaker with the KRadikal on top and SM and TM underneath. A third rack with all Tors has the Kremlin and HAKAI. The thin wood shelves under the top three appear to act to pull energy away from the shelves the equipment sits on. The one on top of the bottom shelf does the same thing for the whole rack but does it better with the damping pad on it. I have often demonstrated how much better it sounds with the pads on rather than off at Hi-Fi shows and have blown many minds in doing so. The improvement is not subtle.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2752
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

I like the “system in a box” approach you use in your top clip markiteight!

Though I do prefer the more normal approach in the other clip.......... :-)
Playing cd’s…………
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Sounding good Mi8, including digital.
User avatar
V.A.MKD
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 862
Joined: 2019-10-09 15:33
Location: Skopje / Europe
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by V.A.MKD »

:-) Interesting ... sounds excellent both ways ...
Music First ...
Vlado
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by ThomasOK »

Very interesting and definitely a bit of fun. Both sound good in different ways.

Now the question is: Should I play your first clip back through my system and see what happens? (I'm not saying I have the time to fool with this, just ruminating on the consequences.)
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
User avatar
markiteight
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 834
Joined: 2012-01-13 01:50
Location: Seattle, Wa. USA

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by markiteight »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-03-11 23:13 Very interesting and definitely a bit of fun. Both sound good in different ways.

Now the question is: Should I play your first clip back through my system and see what happens? (I'm not saying I have the time to fool with this, just ruminating on the consequences.)
I posted those clips as a way to explore just how robust Source First and comparison via clips really are. Your suggestion might actually be helpful in that respect, but I think it's safe to say our methods are indeed quite robust!

Continuing with the Paul Simon theme:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l6bssob6nh0wm ... 6.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w1z6lb7i3o22l ... 2.MOV?dl=0
I made the recordings in a darkened room to obscure the change so as to avoid influencing your choice.

Edit: I should probably point out that this comparison is independent of the one above. No laptop involved. Source is my usual LP12 in both clips.
Lego
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1147
Joined: 2007-04-18 11:42
Location: glasgow

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Lego »

Obviously second one is better... Although a badly setup Lp12 can sound worse than a laptop
I know that tune
beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2752
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

The second clip makes it so easy for me to relax and enjoy the music just floating away on a cloud......
Playing cd’s…………
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

same here.
User avatar
springwood64
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 789
Joined: 2008-10-13 18:19
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by springwood64 »

I prefer the second as well. It sounds more alive and engaging. The difference sounds similar to me in character to speaker position or alignment tuning.
Pete

Linn Axis, Kinki, Källa (GS308T+Amplifi HD x 2 + BJC), Boazu, Espeks
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by ThomasOK »

I can choose that tune in one note. I prefer the second clip. I don't know what you did but definitely better.

I understand Mardi Gras was a bit different this year. I heard they still had it and tried to make it as good as possible, but an event that is known for crowded streets and packed bars isn't quite the same in the middle of a pandemic. Here's to it being back in full force next year.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by lejonklou »

markiteight wrote: 2021-03-12 00:50I posted those clips as a way to explore just how robust Source First and comparison via clips really are. Your suggestion might actually be helpful in that respect, but I think it's safe to say our methods are indeed quite robust!

Continuing with the Paul Simon theme:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l6bssob6nh0wm ... 6.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w1z6lb7i3o22l ... 2.MOV?dl=0
I made the recordings in a darkened room to obscure the change so as to avoid influencing your choice.

Edit: I should probably point out that this comparison is independent of the one above. No laptop involved. Source is my usual LP12 in both clips.
Second clip for me!
User avatar
markiteight
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 834
Joined: 2012-01-13 01:50
Location: Seattle, Wa. USA

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by markiteight »

Thank you all for your responses. I have to say I'm surprised at the results as I fully expected exactly the opposite! To me the setup in the first clip doesn't sound as "good" but is more musical, in that I find it easer to follow the tune and make sense of the music, but it's presented with more of a sense of disinterested indifference. By comparison the second clip setup is intimate, seductive, beguiling, and pretty good musically...just not as good as setup 1. Is this a trap? I think so! Question is, is it me who has fallen into the trap or all y'all? I'm pretty sure it's me who needs rescuing!

So what are we listening to? Clip 2 is system as usual, clip 1 is Keilidhs in place of Omens.
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2292
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Spannko »

Which Keilidh’s have you got? I’d guess the earlier ones with the mesh grille over the tweeter?
User avatar
markiteight
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 834
Joined: 2012-01-13 01:50
Location: Seattle, Wa. USA

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by markiteight »

Spannko wrote: 2021-03-13 23:14 Which Keilidh’s have you got? I’d guess the earlier ones with the mesh grille over the tweeter?
They're actually very late production examples (s/n: 54,7XX/54,7XX+1) with 015/3 tweeters, 013/4 woofers, and composite bases. The tweeters were damaged so I replaced them with good ones out of a pair of donor Tukans, checked to make sure the tweeter levels were set to factory default (they weren't) and let them play for about a month to allow the solder joints time to settle in, and to find the speakers' optimum position in the room.

There's still something unusual about this particular pair of Keilidhs. I've heard lots of Keilidhs, both aktiv and passiv, in lots of different rooms/systems over the years and they have all consistently sounded a bit dull/shut in (which is why I was a bit surprised to find the crossovers in this pair set to lower the tweeter output), but these sound quite lively and even a touch bright at times. It might be that my usual listening spot is higher and closer to the speakers than normal and the room is quite small, but their tonal balance is different than any other Keilidhs I've heard...in a good way! In this setup they sing the most musical tune I've heard from Keilidhs.
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

First time I listened I did prefer clip 1 but must admit being influenced by beck and Lego into listening again and for longer and then started to appreciate what clip 2 has to offer. Listening again and i feel I can hear the tuneful Linn speaker thing and yet your normal setup is ultimately a bit more rewarding. I suppose I find clip 1 initially easier to make sense of but it’s ultimately providing a shallower view of the music, if that makes sense. So, I think I’m hearing the same as you but phrased differently.
User avatar
markiteight
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 834
Joined: 2012-01-13 01:50
Location: Seattle, Wa. USA

Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by markiteight »

Charlie1 wrote: 2021-03-13 23:54 First time I listened I did prefer clip 1 but must admit being influenced by beck and Lego into listening again and for longer and then started to appreciate what clip 2 has to offer. Listening again and i feel I can hear the tuneful Linn speaker thing and yet your normal setup is ultimately a bit more rewarding. I suppose I find clip 1 initially easier to make sense of but it’s ultimately providing a shallower view of the music, if that makes sense. So, I think I’m hearing the same as you but phrased differently.
I like your assessment, Charlie1. Here's another situation where a bit from column A and a bit from column B would be lovely. I think there are still areas of the Omen's design that can be further optimized so there's hope yet.
Post Reply