Playground for practical listening exercises

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Charlie1
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

beck wrote: 2021-02-10 12:20 Nice! :-)

They do sound different and I do prefer “point”.

I like the way the kickdrum integrate with the rest of the music and how it gets clearer and punchier in the “point” video.
I think you're right - the drum is a fraction out of sync in 'pin'
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tokenbrit »

Listened to point first... pin was 'less' in comparison. Does this help you pinpoint whether you're onto something with your tinkering? And how was the chili - 'hopefully good' too :)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

@SewerSleuth somehow I expected that my test would be too much for you but why should I wait just because you would probably be joking about it.
Unfortunately you didn’t understood what the test was about - a power strip has only one way to connect it. The difference is how the cable is attached at the manufacturer.

here are pictures as examples

with text:
DA797807-B6ED-45C6-B048-96AA257C65C6.jpeg
against text:
A560FC7E-CD8D-407E-8D24-3E6A92D00343.jpeg
and we are not doing those recordings for „posing“ it is to get ideas what is more musical and not what „sounds“ better.

You still use words which make it clear that you are using a different evaluation method.
I very much respect the feedback from others ... you completely misunderstand what this is about.

Can I ask you what the rest of your system looks like and what kind of music taste you have/what music you hear?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Spannko »

Defender,

What else is printed on the cable? Particularly something like H05VV-F and 0.75mm2 or 1.5mm2.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

both are absolutely identical only the direction is different both have H05VV-F on it but they are 1.0mm2 cables
(the Clas Ohlson has 1,5mm2 individual lines)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Spannko »

Defender wrote: 2021-02-10 16:13 both are absolutely identical only the direction is different both have H05VV-F on it but they are 1.0mm2 cables
(the Clas Ohlson has 1,5mm2 individual lines)
I’ve made up extension blocks and they haven’t been too successful, but I’ve always used a standard 0.75mm2 cable to feed the block, and it looks as though the cable needs to be of a slightly larger gauge. The 1mm2 on your Musicline seems to work really well.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by ThomasOK »

OscarH wrote: 2021-02-10 11:27 Hello,
As promised a new set of clips here... A little tinkering with ‘something’ in my system. What I’ve done is cheap and fully reversible, but hopefully good.

Tried to pick a record that nobody has heard before. (One, at least) free beer awaits in Copenhagen if you get it without Shazam ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d75pk7ed8r81 ... XsLfa?dl=0

Edit: no, the single difference is NOT the disappearence of the large pot of chili con carne from the balcony!
Well, I'm on pins and needles wondering what the difference is. I can hear that there is something interesting about the drum in Point and it has the mashed together quality that beck seems to prefer, but I really like Pin better. I had to go back and forth a number of times, not because the difference is hard to hear, it is quite obvious, but because it is harder to pick which is better. But I found myself getting into the rhythm more in Pin and didn't consider the bass drum to be out of time on it. I also found it easier to hear how the vocals were being done, even though I can't understand them!

As to who it is, I have no clue. So you certainly don't owe me a Pin(t). (No big loss since I don't drink beer.)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by OscarH »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-02-10 18:57
OscarH wrote: 2021-02-10 11:27 Hello,
As promised a new set of clips here... A little tinkering with ‘something’ in my system. What I’ve done is cheap and fully reversible, but hopefully good.

Tried to pick a record that nobody has heard before. (One, at least) free beer awaits in Copenhagen if you get it without Shazam ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d75pk7ed8r81 ... XsLfa?dl=0

Edit: no, the single difference is NOT the disappearence of the large pot of chili con carne from the balcony!
Well, I'm on pins and needles wondering what the difference is. I can hear that there is something interesting about the drum in Point and it has the mashed together quality that beck seems to prefer, but I really like Pin better. I had to go back and forth a number of times, not because the difference is hard to hear, it is quite obvious, but because it is harder to pick which is better. But I found myself getting into the rhythm more in Pin and didn't consider the bass drum to be out of time on it. I also found it easier to hear how the vocals were being done, even though I can't understand them!

As to who it is, I have no clue. So you certainly don't owe me a Pin(t). (No big loss since I don't drink beer.)
There are a bunch of responses now so I can reveal what is going on.

First, there are a few things I’ve changed since I lasted posted any clips, all of which I’m happy have been improvement:

- the RP8 has been torqued using ThomasOK’s values. I’ve tried a bit above and below those values on some fasteners, but haven’t found better ones.
- I have changed to much smaller rubber knobs underneath the feet of the amp.
- I’ve taken the front cloths off the speakers. My kids are now big enough not to poke the tweeters in. It’s hard for me to tell a musical difference (slight difference in level) but my 6-year-old (who presumably can hear more frequencies than the rest of us) is adamant it is better without.
- I keep tweaking the speaker positions.

Now; what I’ve changed is the feet to the rack/furniture. From flat Aluminium feet (pin) to spikes (point).

I ordered a set of spikes suggested by Defender, which comes with a threaded insert. It then turned out this rack actually already had threads for spikes.

The spikes changes two things:
- the interface to the floor (can be either better or worse)
- the ability to perfectly level the surface for the turntable (must be a good thing)

There’s about 90 minutes between the clips (emptying the rack, fitting the spikes, leveling it, connect everything, let things warm up) so my own A/B in the room is not so easy.

On the clips I also hear the punch/drive with spikes mentioned by beck. Overall I think this has been an upgrade, but vibration is a tricky matter.

I also have before/after clips with the Hakai in the same rack. They seem to show the same pattern.

I’ve put the sources on the top and bottom as these shelves are good birch plywood. The intermediate shelves are MDF and not very well supported either. I have some thoughts but need to buy materials which are hard to come by in lockdownia...

This rack is nothing special, it was an ex demo I picked up cheap when rearranging some years back. I won’t be getting a new one anytime soon because a) I can’t afford it b) I don’t know how big it should be to suit a future “dream setup” c) the current one is acceptable to my wife.

The record is by a band from Bergen, Norway called Hjerteslag. I’m good friends with the lead guitarist. I’d say you need to be rather proficient in Norwegian dialects to get the lyrics ;)

Edit: all cables are marked and they have definitely gone back the same way.

Edit 2: the Chili was indeed very good!

Edit 3: there will always be a non-alcoholic option :)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-02-10 18:57 I also found it easier to hear how the vocals were being done, even though I can't understand them!
I noticed that too. Don't normally get such a big difference in presentation between two clips, other than big changes like speakers.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tokenbrit »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-02-10 18:57 .. I'm on pins and needles...
Pins & needles, or needles and pins?
Maybe these clips are pointing out different preferences rather than pinning down which is the better tune :?
Listening again, I find more projection of the voice & drive to point, but I can sense what you mean about the vocals in pin, it's just that I find them a bit distant... I realise these are sound differences as much as or more than tune, but the projection helps the tune along, for me. Of course, it could be that I'm not on point, and definitely not en pointe...

Glad the chili was good; I may have had enough beer already ;)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

When I listen to "pin" I'm thinking, this is a pretty good song!
Not as much when listening to "point". It's a tad less expressive and fun to me. Edit: ..and dare I say a bit monotone?
Both sounds good though.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Defender wrote: 2021-02-10 11:08 that seems to be an interesting one ...
in the room the strip „against text“ sounds much different to the other and it gives me a smile and sounds more musical to me as well the instruments flow much better.

I can also understand the voices better ... so much that I was checking if I linked the right files but I did.
So maybe I am falling into a trap? That was a recording with an IPad as my IPhone was not ready.

Maybe the song wasn’t really the right one as it starts slow
Hi Defender

I have listened to your latest Naim music power line videos and I do understand why you prefer “against text”.

Whatever the outcome of the answers on this forum you must not doubt yourself. If you after a longer period of listening prefer one direction to another you should go with it.

What I find most difficult in the world of hifi is to hold on to my own gut feeling. It is so easy to get carried away in one direction or another.

At the end of the day we are always choosing between flawed options regardless of the amount of money spent.
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Julian Vereker said on the old Naim forum that, when they developed NAC A5, they discovered that the directional behaviour of the cable was absent until the sheathing was applied - he had no explanation for this. If correct, then I wonder if it's possible that the writing on your cable was applied afterwards and in the opposite direction to the sheathing.

Agree with beck, try to trust works best for you over time.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

Hi Beck
I hoped you would comment, I decided to setup the LP12 to bring it back to the old performance and than make the test again. Both strips have advantages and disadvantages but as I have both I can have a control try later - my jig should arrive this weekend ;)

BTW „with text“ ... is better it took a while for me
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Defender wrote: 2021-02-11 10:54 Hi Beck
I hoped you would comment, I decided to setup the LP12 to bring it back to the old performance and than make the test again. Both strips have advantages and disadvantages but as I have both I can have a control try later - my jig should arrive this weekend ;)

BTW „with text“ ... is better it took a while for me
Whatever we do regarding our hifi systems if we end up unsatisfied it is because the system is not performing well enough.

Not because we do not get it! :-)
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Tendaberry »

OscarH wrote: 2021-02-10 19:44 Now; what I’ve changed is the feet to the rack/furniture. From flat Aluminium feet (pin) to spikes (point).
Even with only my basic knowledge of Norwegian, I can understand the lyrics much better on "point" (spikes). I would keep them.
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Netgear Vs DIY Power Supply

Post by Spannko »

It’s been a while since I lost my way, but I think I might be getting back on track.

Enjoy!

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B125nhQSTHUOJ2y
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Re: Netgear Vs DIY Power Supply

Post by ThomasOK »

Spannko wrote: 2021-02-18 00:12 It’s been a while since I lost my way, but I think I might be getting back on track.

Enjoy!

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B125nhQSTHUOJ2y
Wow! They are completely different! I don't know what you did but I much prefer the bounce and energy of track B.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

I can only access two different tracks...
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Re: Netgear Vs DIY Power Supply

Post by Spannko »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-02-18 00:32
Spannko wrote: 2021-02-18 00:12 It’s been a while since I lost my way, but I think I might be getting back on track.

Enjoy!

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B125nhQSTHUOJ2y
Wow! They are completely different! I don't know what you did but I much prefer the bounce and energy of track B.
Thank you Thomas. The bouncy one is the DIY PS, or Henri, as I prefer to call him 🥳
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by markiteight »

Charlie1 wrote: 2021-02-18 00:56 I can only access two different tracks...
I have the same issue as Charlie1. I only see two tracks and they're different songs so not possible to compare.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Same here. Maybe we are not meant to make a comparison?
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DIY Vs Netgear Power Supply

Post by Spannko »

After the confusion of the last “comparison” 🤪 let’s have another go!

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B125Uzl7VuYgU8y
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Blue
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by David Neel »

Also blue...
The search for knowledge is not nourished by certainty, but by a radical distrust in certainty
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