Playground for practical listening exercises

[V.A.MKD]

Sorry to hear that ThomasOK, I hope you are OK. In moments like this it's very difficult to stay ...
*Don't ask me how I know that.
You will fix it, your system will be perfect and you will be happy with your LP collection again ... Grieg ... it's .....

[lejonklou]

I need to clarify one thing: The separate ground lead that runs in the middle of Linn's tonearm cables -the chassis ground - seem to corrode slightly with time on the grey T-kable. I've come across several old T-kables where this was evident and eventually it seems the connection can be lost.

This is however not a critical problem. On an MM-equipped turntable, you'll hear it as hum or a crackling noise (when the connection is intermittent). On an MC-equipped turntable, you likely won't notice anything at all (no hum and very little if any crackling noise). But the music will sound a bit worse. Neither on MM nor on MC is this a problem that will damage anything in the system.

What Thomas is describing above and which is a really critical problem is when one or both of the signal grounds is broken. This means the green and/or blue connection on the cartridge looses contact with the barrel/s on the RCA connector/s. That will leave the signal without reference on the input of the phono stage and the result is that the output of the phono stage will swing back and forth between its maximum and minimum amplitude. That's usually in excess of +/-10 Volts. Unless your volume setting is really low or muted, it will mean the equivalent of turning it up to 100. That's when amps will risk blowing up.

I've actually never come across this fault on a T-kable, so I think that Thomas was really unlucky here.

[Defender]

thank you Fredrik for this clarification I actually got worried if this is a more common issue of the grey T kable

[tokenbrit]

.. I ceremoniously blew up my left Tundra Mono! :-(

Very sorry to read of your 'these amps don't go to 11' incident :(

Was the arm cable part of the assembly that went back to HQ, or just bad luck, unfortunate timing, and disastrous consequences of it going bad through age &/or dis/re-assembly of your LP12?

[ThomasOK]

Oh dear... a normal 366 day leap year just wasn’t enough for 2020.

Just curious ThomasOK - do you actually not have any form of second system in your home? I just assumed you’d have a bunch of stuff lying around. Or is it that your main system is so good you don’t feel it’s worth listening to something else in the meantime?

I certainly can't say I don't have "any form of second system". I have a home theater system that consists of an older Pioneer Elite BluRay player into a 5.1 channel Akurate Kontrol driving four original Isobariks through 2 LK280/SPARK amps. That all displays through an outdated projector (still waiting for real 4K to come down) and a large screen. My JBL 4645c subwoofer will be connected up to that system one of these days as well. However, there is no turntable connected. Since it is in the basement and my records are upstairs, doing vinyl down there is more hassle than I feel like dealing with. Indeed, since I setup a TV and system in the second bedroom I haven't used the downstairs system much at all, in part because my 12 year old lab Bella isn't too thrilled with going back up the stairs once she has gone down there with me. But, of course, she is not happy about staying down there by herself either!

That leads to the 2nd bedroom system that is a 42" plasma TV (that may be replaced soon by a 55" OLED since it is getting used more than originally planned) connected to a MDSM/3, Apple TV, new Sony ES 4K BluRay player and a pair of Meridian M3 active speakers. It actually sounds pretty good and I have been watching more movies on it lately (seeing as we can't go out and see movies). Even though I do have a second LP12 it is partly disassembled and will be donating the new arm cable I hadn't installed yet to the Ekos SE/1 soon. But I don't have a really good place to put the LP12 in that room and would I really want to listen to an Lingo4/Kore/Ekos2/Adikt/Slipsik7.1 in that system when I am spoiled by the main system?

I also have a pair of quite nice active speakers on my computer in that room and a pair of JBL 3677s in boxes I have to get around to selling one of these days. So, yeah, I think it is fair to say I have a bunch of stuff (as in too much, more could be listed) laying around.

[OscarH]

Thanks for the thorough reply Tom! So you haven’t suffered too badly from involuntary silence then at least.

It would be too frightening if you actually had the discipline to sell off everything taken out of the main system. I think we all do a little “trickle down” to the TV room or somewhere else when the main gets an upgrade.

Regarding putting the lower tier LP12 in another system that does highlight one main issue with any “second system”, regardless of the level of any of ones systems. I find the sound to be pretty good in the tv room while watching tv or movies, also when there’s music in the movies. We do have a streamer in there so we can keep playing music without relocating after watching tv. But it never seems to last long before moving anyway.

I think I must conclude that for me it will never actually make sense to have a second system be more than TV/backup. The preference for the main system will be overwhelming.

[ThomasOK]

Yes, Oscar, that makes perfect sense to me. I obviously don't have that level of discipline, especially within the last couple of years, but I could use to thin things out a bit.

The bedroom system came about by the confluence of several chance happenings. The TV was given to me by my friend Simon when he was downsizing to an apartment with one less bedroom as he had no use for it and knew I didn't even own a TV! (I'm not a big TV watcher and gave all the TVs to my ex-girlfriend when she and her son moved out. I generally watch movies from time to time, hence the basement home theater.) That I don't watch TV much was indicated by the gift TV sitting on the floor for a year and a half before I installed it. Simon, hoping to see me use it gave me an Apple TV to go with it Christmas 2019. It sat in the box for over six months. But then Linn decided to replace the analog Majik DSM/3 with the all digital DSM/4 and I had the opportunity to buy one of the last analog units pretty cheap and snapped it up. Put that together with being at home more from COVID-19 restrictions, my spiritual week-long convocation in August being made all virtual for the first time and Bella showing definite signs of not liking to go up stairs and I had the incentive to put it all together with the Meridian speakers that had been connected to my computer. I got it all hooked up and running (and the colors properly tweaked) just in time for the first day of the Convocation and enjoyed being able to join in on the lectures, meditations and virtual pilgrimages on a big screen. So I bought the new 4K BluRay player and have now been watching most movies upstairs. It doesn't hurt that it is actually higher resolution than my projector.

The second LP12 was one I built up from parts and upgrades for the sole purpose of being able to properly demonstrate the Slipsik and Giao at shows, etc. with a relatively high-end table carrying an Adikt. It really gets very little use but is handy when needed. Who knows, someday we may be able to have Hi-Fi shows again and it can come out of retirement! I did pop the Ekos2 and Adikt into my main system with a Slipsik 7.1 while my Ekos SE/1 was being repaired. It was still enjoyable but obviously not quite what I was used to. Despite having the MDSM hooked up to the network I haven't even tried streaming on it yet.

[Eli7]

The volume is likely to vary slightly, but the experienced TuneDemmer just ignores that.

What do you prefer?


A) https://www.dropbox.com/s/0dghpmfvlberfdr/A%20.m4a?dl=0


B) https://www.dropbox.com/s/yqbeko2ixsncsow/B%20.m4a?dl=0

[OscarH]

What do inexperienced tunedemmers do then?

I guess they boldly go first and pick A.

[Charlie1]

I seem more drawn to b. A seems a bit analytical to me.

[beck]

I seem more drawn to b. A seems a bit analytical to me.

+1

[kampak]

b for me.

[V.A.MKD]

A) https://www.dropbox.com/s/0dghpmfvlberfdr/A%20.m4a?dl=0

B) https://www.dropbox.com/s/yqbeko2ixsncsow/B%20.m4a?dl=0

A for me, it's more musical for me ... maybe I'm wrong ...

[lejonklou]

The volume is likely to vary slightly, but the experienced TuneDemmer just ignores that.

What do you prefer?


A) https://www.dropbox.com/s/0dghpmfvlberfdr/A%20.m4a?dl=0


B) https://www.dropbox.com/s/yqbeko2ixsncsow/B%20.m4a?dl=0

I prefer B.

And I love the album. Been too long since I listened to it.

[tokenbrit]

B seemed a bit quieter, which might give A an advantage, but I found myself agreeing with Charlie1: "more drawn to b".

[Eli7]

Hey, I'm glad you guys listened. Many Thanks!

B) For me too.
It touches me more and sounds better too. It's sometimes quite gentle, and sometimes maybe too gentle for an Ex Naimie.

A) The musicians' playing seems more nuanced, but affects me less.

I will always make small or large changes to the system / setup. Maybe we can work together to get something really convincing about my system.

I will report on the individual steps at some point.

I look forward to further active participation.

[tokenbrit]

I will report on the individual steps at some point.

Do you mean the "individual steps" between A and B in this comparison, or when you "make small or large changes" in the future?

I'm interested to know what differences we were listening to here between A & B.

[Eli7]

And go on. Because it was so nice, something from Joni again. In honor of Fredrik from the same album.


C) https://www.dropbox.com/s/8tzo89jefuyck ... 0.m4a?dl=0

D) https://www.dropbox.com/s/knmtau2f4wn4rc5/D..m4a?dl=0


Is it for you:
1) = much better
2) = better
3) = little better

[Eli7]

I will report on the individual steps at some point.

Do you mean the "individual steps" between A and B in this comparison, or when you "make small or large changes" in the future?

I'm interested to know what differences we were listening to here between A & B.

Hello Beck, please be patient. I will write something about the individual steps later. I continue with the winner (Setup B) and then make a change.
If it calms you down a bit: A) there was a fuse from the hardware store in the fuse box.
B) there was a copper fuse in the fuse box.

[beck]

I will report on the individual steps at some point.

Do you mean the "individual steps" between A and B in this comparison, or when you "make small or large changes" in the future?

I'm interested to know what differences we were listening to here between A & B.

Hello Beck, please be patient. I will write something about the individual steps later. I continue with the winner (B) and gradually make further small or large changes.
If it calms you down a bit: A) there was a fuse from the hardware store in the fuse box.
B) there was a copper fuse in the fuse box.

Who called my name?

I think you ment to write tokenbrit!. :-)

[Eli7]

Oh yes, that's right, sorry Beck.

I hope the song (C / D) is meaningful enough.

[ThomasOK]

The volume is likely to vary slightly, but the experienced TuneDemmer just ignores that.

What do you prefer?


A) https://www.dropbox.com/s/0dghpmfvlberfdr/A%20.m4a?dl=0


B) https://www.dropbox.com/s/yqbeko2ixsncsow/B%20.m4a?dl=0

Yep, I like B better. Draws me into the music more.

[ThomasOK]

And go on. Because it was so nice, something from Joni again. In honor of Fredrik from the same album.


C) https://www.dropbox.com/s/8tzo89jefuyck ... 0.m4a?dl=0

D) https://www.dropbox.com/s/knmtau2f4wn4rc5/D..m4a?dl=0


Is it for you:
1) = much better
2) = better
3) = little better

I like D better on these two. If I had to choose ranking I'd probably say 2) better. But it is hard to give these comparisons ranks like that as once you have heard a musical rendition it is hard to listen to a less musical one. I would say in both these the difference was enough that I didn't much care for A or C but rather liked B and D. This despite hearing A and C first so having no original reference when hearing them.

[grin]

And go on. Because it was so nice, something from Joni again. In honor of Fredrik from the same album.

Which album is it? wonderful..

[Eli7]

And go on. Because it was so nice, something from Joni again. In honor of Fredrik from the same album.


C) https://www.dropbox.com/s/8tzo89jefuyck ... 0.m4a?dl=0

D) https://www.dropbox.com/s/knmtau2f4wn4rc5/D..m4a?dl=0


Is it for you:
1) = much better
2) = better
3) = little better

I like D better on these two. If I had to choose ranking I'd probably say 2) better. But it is hard to give these comparisons ranks like that as once you have heard a musical rendition it is hard to listen to a less musical one. I would say in both these the difference was enough that I didn't much care for A or C but rather liked B and D. This despite hearing A and C first so having no original reference when hearing them.

Hello Thomas, it's nice that you take part.

Sorry, I have to make it clearer.
A) is out.
I continued with setup B).
B setup = C setup
An important setup change was made at D.