Playground for practical listening exercises

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Mikeg
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Mikeg »

Hi Beck

Would you be able to list all of the things you have done to your CD player that have worked?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by V.A.MKD »

beck wrote: 2021-01-15 20:18 Cd player direct on shelf (no rubber pads used):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nhitqk5sgfmv8 ... 6.mov?dl=0

Sondek on the same stand (worn Klyde):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lmmqfozcpp84f ... 4.mov?dl=0
Hi beck,
I'm for LP12 as I was several months ago :-).
Having and running both is as well is excellent option, since that you go forward with sound of CD very very good.
So on other post I will if I may propose something ...
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

beck wrote: 2021-01-16 09:55
OscarH wrote: 2021-01-16 08:41
Didn’t realize you were in pickup problems beck. Maybe MM time?
Now I enjoy cd so much I cannot say when I will go back into vinyl.
At the moment I am buying all my favorite albums on cd to be able to listen to them. :-)
I'm very happy for you, Beck.
Yes CD can be very beautiful. I also loved my olive Naim CD players (linked to Naim) very much. It was really very nice. Back then, I sometimes asked myself why I actually had the LP12. (Yes, I once had an LP12, but I sold it.)
Last edited by Eli7 on 2021-01-16 16:02, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Must admit, beck's clips have shone a different light on CD and I'm not so negative about it. I think I could happily live with it as well.
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2021-01-16 11:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by V.A.MKD »

beck wrote: 2021-01-16 09:55
OscarH wrote: 2021-01-16 08:41
Didn’t realize you were in pickup problems beck. Maybe MM time?
My hunt for decent cd replay started as a reaction to the Klyde being discontinued and the lack of will to use a lot of money on cartridges.

MM could be a good solution but first I had to try what cd could bring to the party. Now I enjoy cd so much I cannot say when I will go back into vinyl.
At the moment I am buying all my favorite albums on cd to be able to listen to them. :-)
Instead of buy all your favorite albums on CD (and have it double), buy AT - VM95C or E (Your LP12 will be as it have to be in proper condition), which is price of 2-3 CD and use rest of money for new music on CD or LP ...
Just as idea ...
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

yes but beck would than might also need a MM phono stage as we don’t know if his is only MC
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Mikeg wrote: 2021-01-16 10:34 Hi Beck

Would you be able to list all of the things you have done to your CD player that have worked?
I would be able to but it would not help you.

It has all to do with everything from the floor and upwards. I think the main point is to get everything inside the cd player to vibrate the same way not causing clashing “waves” that disturb the reading of the cd (my take).

This is not easy. I worked on the power cord, the interconnects and the cd tray so that the incoming vibrations did as little harm as possible to the reading of the cd. Again, I think it is all about “tuning” the vibrations getting them all “in tune”.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Defender wrote: 2021-01-16 11:17 yes but beck would than might also need a MM phono stage as we don’t know if his is only MC
Yes, the Linto is MC only but if I committed myself it would be easy enough to find a god match for my system (think of Adikt and Slipsik for one).
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

V.A.MKD wrote: 2021-01-16 11:03 Instead of buy all your favorite albums on CD (and have it double), buy AT - VM95C or E (Your LP12 will be as it have to be in proper condition), which is price of 2-3 CD and use rest of money for new music on CD or LP ...
Just as idea ...
I like to have my favorites on both vinyl and cd. Playing music most of my spare time it is also nice not to have to be troubled by the thought of the wear and tear I can inflict on my records using them all the time.
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by V.A.MKD »

beck wrote: 2021-01-16 11:32
V.A.MKD wrote: 2021-01-16 11:03 Instead of buy all your favorite albums on CD (and have it double), buy AT - VM95C or E (Your LP12 will be as it have to be in proper condition), which is price of 2-3 CD and use rest of money for new music on CD or LP ...
Just as idea ...
I like to have my favorites on both vinyl and cd. Playing music most of my spare time it is also nice not to have to be troubled by the thought of the wear and tear I can inflict on my records using them all the time.
Sorry, I understand wrong your post ...
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-16 10:59
I'm very happy for you, Beck.
Yes CD can be very beautiful. I also loved my Naim CD players (linked to Naim) very much. It was really very nice. Back then, I sometimes asked myself why I actually had the LP12. (Yes, I once had an LP12, but I sold it.)
Thank you Eli7.

I hope you find your way back to really enjoying music at home again. With your superb listening skills I do not understand how you lost your way in the first place! :-)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

beck wrote: 2021-01-16 11:21 ...to vibrate the same way not causing clashing “waves” ..... so that the incoming vibrations did as little harm as possible .... Again, I think it is all about “tuning” the vibrations getting them all “in tune”.
Whilst I don't think Ivor has ever spelt it out entirely, I think this is what his inital LP12 development work was fundamentally all about (and continued since) and what the third parties and other turntable manufacturers have never understood and/or been interested in. Nearly 50 years later and it seems to me no one has really cottoned on. Sorry, slight divergence, but your language and purpose are so similar.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

beck wrote: 2021-01-16 12:53
Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-16 10:59
I'm very happy for you, Beck.
Yes CD can be very beautiful. I also loved my Naim CD players (linked to Naim) very much. It was really very nice. Back then, I sometimes asked myself why I actually had the LP12. (Yes, I once had an LP12, but I sold it.)
Thank you Eli7.

I hope you find your way back to really enjoying music at home again. With your superb listening skills I do not understand how you lost your way in the first place! :-)
Thank you, Beck!
I think I'm on the right path.

To your question: I experimented a lot with my olive Naims back then. They also played only so well with a perfect setup. Yes, it has a lot to do with vibration. Today I know that I used a kind of Tune Dem back then. The new Black Naims at the end made me desperate because I couldn't get them to play. And I'm not quick to give up in this regard! (Today I know the Black Naims are not good for me, I've heard them a lot). Eventually I lost faith in my abilities. I didn't know what to listen to anymore. Everything I heard wasn't good enough. Buying Linn was an attempt to save me. Linn has a very good reputation. So I tried.

With your help, with all the great posts here in the forum, I'm slowly finding myself again. Again and again, I read certain posts. Especially this one about Tune Dem. I try to understand and apply everything.

Thanks again to everyone who helped me with their contributions!
Last edited by Eli7 on 2021-01-17 07:29, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-16 14:54 To your question: I experimented a lot with my olive Naims back then. They also played only so well with a perfect setup. Yes, it has a lot to do with vibration. Today I know that I used a kind of Tune Dem back then. The new Black Naims at the end made me desperate because I couldn't get them to play. And I'm not quick to give up in this regard! (Today I know the Black Naims are not good for me, I've heard them a lot). Eventually I lost faith in my abilities. I didn't know what to listen to anymore. Everything I heard wasn't good enough. Buying Linn was an attempt to save me. Linn has a very good reputation. So I tried.
You might enjoy your MDSM partnerred with vintage Naim, but perhap ditch the 140s if going that route. Keilidhs are cheap, just to get you going again, and work well with old Naim amps.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

Charlie1 wrote: 2021-01-16 15:10
Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-16 14:54 To your question: I experimented a lot with my olive Naims back then. They also played only so well with a perfect setup. Yes, it has a lot to do with vibration. Today I know that I used a kind of Tune Dem back then. The new Black Naims at the end made me desperate because I couldn't get them to play. And I'm not quick to give up in this regard! (Today I know the Black Naims are not good for me, I've heard them a lot). Eventually I lost faith in my abilities. I didn't know what to listen to anymore. Everything I heard wasn't good enough. Buying Linn was an attempt to save me. Linn has a very good reputation. So I tried.
You might enjoy your MDSM partnerred with vintage Naim, but perhap ditch the 140s if going that route. Keilidhs are cheap, just to get you going again, and work well with old Naim amps.
Yes, that would be a possibility. I will keep an eye on them.

I think I'll wait for the Lejonklou Boazu first. I'll be able to hear one soon. The experience with Slipsik was so good that I have great hope. It seems that Fredrik managed to combine all the good qualities.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by ThomasOK »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-16 15:33 I think I'll wait for the Lejonklou Boazu first. I'll be able to hear one soon. The experience with Slipsik was so good that I have great hope. It seems that Fredrik managed to combine all the good qualities.
Good idea, and yes he does seem to have done just that.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

+1

..............and report back to us. :-)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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beck wrote: 2021-01-16 11:32
V.A.MKD wrote: 2021-01-16 11:03 Instead of buy all your favorite albums on CD (and have it double), buy AT - VM95C or E (Your LP12 will be as it have to be in proper condition), which is price of 2-3 CD and use rest of money for new music on CD or LP ...
Just as idea ...
I like to have my favorites on both vinyl and cd. Playing music most of my spare time it is also nice not to have to be troubled by the thought of the wear and tear I can inflict on my records using them all the time.
Sorry, beck, but I can't quite buy this. I have albums I have played hundreds of times and I hear no signs of wear on them (although I wouldn't try that with a worn Klyde). Actually, vinyl LPs are a more reliable archival medium than any other since CDs and tape both wear out over time even just sitting in a shelf. I think the idea of record wear is overstated when you have any decent turntable/arm/cartridge. Going with a Slipsik 7.1 and Adikt, or even an AT VM95, would give you more musical bliss that your CD player will give you with 100 years more tinkering. It would also allow you to change out the stylus relatively cheaply if you even doubted the condition of the one you had (one of the main reasons Fredrik held on to his Adikt for so many years). Subtract the amount you could get for the Linto (and maybe a little for the Klyde) and add that an Adikt through a Slipsik 7.1 sounds more like a good MC cartridge than any MM/phono stage combo I've heard and it seems like a worthwhile goal to me.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-16 15:33 Yes, that would be a possibility. I will keep an eye on them.

I think I'll wait for the Lejonklou Boazu first. I'll be able to hear one soon. The experience with Slipsik was so good that I have great hope. It seems that Fredrik managed to combine all the good qualities.
Sounds like a plan!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

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ThomasOK wrote: 2021-01-16 16:46 Sorry, beck, but I can't quite buy this. I have albums I have played hundreds of times and I hear no signs of wear on them (although I wouldn't try that with a worn Klyde). Actually, vinyl LPs are a more reliable archival medium than any other since CDs and tape both wear out over time even just sitting in a shelf. I think the idea of record wear is overstated when you have any decent turntable/arm/cartridge. Going with a Slipsik 7.1 and Adikt, or even an AT VM95, would give you more musical bliss that your CD player will give you with 100 years more tinkering. It would also allow you to change out the stylus relatively cheaply if you even doubted the condition of the one you had (one of the main reasons Fredrik held on to his Adikt for so many years). Subtract the amount you could get for the Linto (and maybe a little for the Klyde) and add that an Adikt through a Slipsik 7.1 sounds more like a good MC cartridge than any MM/phono stage combo I've heard and it seems like a worthwhile goal to me.
No need to be sorry Thomas. :-)

I get your point fully but you must understand that turning my old cd player into something enjoyable has been a big thing for me and an eye opener as well.

I did own a collection of cd’s before I started this journey and wanted to see if I could end up listening to them in a fulfilling way. So it has been a project I enjoyed taking on.

My end goal will be to have a both vinyl and cd operating hifi system because despite vinyl being musically superior cd’s are cheap and a kind of new experience with it’s own set of pros and cons.


To anyone starting from scratch I will still (as I have done before) recommend a simple turntable (mm) setup together with a small passive system to get into music in the best and easiest possible way! :-)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by ThomasOK »

Yes, I fully understand and it has been rather fun to follow along on a journey that I probably will never take. Kind of like watching a National Geographic show on a trip to the Arctic. :-)

As you know I am on my own journey to see how much I can get out of these black plastic disks. It has been a long journey and has been of great benefit but it is not done quite yet.

However it has been paused for a few weeks by another mishap. 2020, not being content with all the trouble it had already created, decided one more problem was in order. (Note that a US radio show last Saturday welcomed everybody to their last show of 2020, looking forward to 2021 starting this week, and hopefully getting over the dreadful events of December 37th 2020!)

So when I was re-installing and tuning my repaired Ekos SE/1, I ceremoniously blew up my left Tundra Mono! :-( While I still consider the Tundra Mono as the likely the best amp in the world for the Quad ESL, it is not without a caveat. That is that a bad ground wire on the arm cable going into SINGularity, Entity or Slipsik is likely to put a DC pulse into the phono stage (which it will happily amplify by 71 dB on the MC units), which the Sagatun will then pass to the Tundra and the Tundra will pass it to the Quad. This will do no damage to the Quad, but since the Quad is a transformer coupled device, the transformer when fed by DC will appear to the amplifier as a dead short! Lejonklou amps don't like a dead short (picky, aren't they), leading to them blowing up one or two transistors, INSTANTLY!!! Hence my very nasty, crackly TM now sitting partly disassembled waiting for the replacement transistors that are currently on the way. (Which I'm being charged for this time as a hopeful prod not to do it again, as I already did this before. Or actually I and Linn who supplied the defective arm cables.) The reason you are reading about this now is that I was so bummed that it took me this long to even be able to talk about it here. For the time being I am listening to the Kremlin switched into mono driving half of my system.

This is the reason you weren't all treated to a couple of pieces of Christmas music, which I was going to record just after I finished setting up the arm. But all will be well again soon as I will replace the transistors and the arm cable and hopefully this will never happen again! Then I will be able to test out a couple of other things I have been wanting to try, to see if it can get even more music off vinyl. Watch this space.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

Sorry to hear that Thomas. You seem understandably a bit fed up about it. However, after the 20th, I think life will become more positive.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

I am sorry to hear about it Thomas but at least we get to read about it here and you always write the best, most informative, funny (37th dec 2020) and most enjoyable (even when blowing up things) posts to read on this forum bar none!

I will look forward to your next clips on this forum as I will look forward to more reports on the new Boazu 1.3.

...............and for the fifth time or so I hope I am done posting clips here ever again. ;-)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

sorry to hear that Thomas but at least you are very much up in the food chain ... being able to get the parts directly and being able to change the parts by yourself ... and with the right solder and the right temp and put everything together with the right toques. Should I go on?

Your accident made me worry too as my ground cable connection on my grey Tcable is also weak and probably hangs on the last fibers of copper - shall I rather not try my luck any further and solder it? I was never feeling the ground cable connection makes much of a difference - it was once completely disconnected for test and I couldnt even hear more hum - I thought its just there to make sure no hum is going into the phono stage?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by OscarH »

Oh dear... a normal 366 day leap year just wasn’t enough for 2020.

Just curious ThomasOK - do you actually not have any form of second system in your home? I just assumed you’d have a bunch of stuff lying around. Or is it that your main system is so good you don’t feel it’s worth listening to something else in the meantime?
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