Playground for practical listening exercises

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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beck
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-13 17:25 Interesting. When I listened to it for the first time, B seemed better. I felt the emotion stronger within me and the vibration seemed better. When listening to it repeatedly, I was able to hear the expressed emotion better in A. There is more expression in it, it also looks more precise.
Now what is better to hear the expressed emotion or to be more emotionally moved? I think both variants have something. I would probably do further research to get both ...
....and I will investigate further. :-)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

I'll try to explain it a little. Listening to B made me feel melancholy. Listening to A lets me know that the emotion being expressed is not melancholy. I'm new to the playground and want to learn. I don't want to listen to and check it out again now. So I would say that was my impression. Does it make sense?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-13 17:55 I'll try to explain it a little. Listening to B made me feel melancholy. Listening to A lets me know that the emotion being expressed is not melancholy. I'm new to the playground and want to learn. I don't want to listen to and check it out again now. So I would say that was my impression. Does it make sense?
I think it makes perfect sense. I think you are very good at listening and expressing what you hear!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

It's a dance track and A had more dance, so that's my pick.
B is lacking some of the forward motion and drive of the song.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

Whatsmynaim wrote: 2021-01-13 18:11 It's a dance track and A had more dance, so that's my pick.
B is lacking some of the forward motion and drive of the song.
Yes, very obviously, that's how you can see it.
But maybe you want to dance with tears in your eyes (B)

I would like to go a little deeper using the A / B example.
Could it be that people with different temperaments (melancholic, sanguine, etc.) might unconsciously tend to prefer a (out of tune) system that corresponds more to their own temperament? For example, I lovingly named my Nait 3R minor (key) amplifier because it may appeal to my temperament better. ??? An experienced Tune Demmer will of course choose a system that correctly reproduces the character and emotion of a piece of music ...? ... and perhaps has the feeling of missing something due to his temperament ...?
Last edited by Eli7 on 2021-01-13 20:43, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

beck wrote: 2021-01-13 18:00
Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-13 17:55 I'll try to explain it a little. Listening to B made me feel melancholy. Listening to A lets me know that the emotion being expressed is not melancholy. I'm new to the playground and want to learn. I don't want to listen to and check it out again now. So I would say that was my impression. Does it make sense?
I think it makes perfect sense. I think you are very good at listening and expressing what you hear!
Thank you beck, thank you for the encouragement.
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beck
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-13 19:34 Could it be that people with different temperaments (melancholic, sanguine, etc.) might unconsciously tend to prefer a (out of tune) system that corresponds more to their own temperament? For example, I lovingly named my Nait 3R minor (key) amplifier because it may appeal to my temperament better. ??? An experienced Tune Demmer will of course choose a system that correctly reproduces the character and emotion of a piece of music ...? ... and perhaps has the feeling of missing something due to his temperament ...?
A very interesting line of thoughts.

Digitals “reading” of the recorded music and it’s output through the speakers seem to be easy to change so I find what you write quite possible as nothing is perfect..........ourselves included.

As hifi can be found in “all shapes and sizes” this should not prevent you from going for what suits you the best I think.

Hunting for “perfect” will not make you happy...........
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-13 19:34
Whatsmynaim wrote: 2021-01-13 18:11 It's a dance track and A had more dance, so that's my pick.
B is lacking some of the forward motion and drive of the song.
Yes, very obviously, that's how you can see it.
But maybe you want to dance with tears in your eyes (B)

I would like to go a little deeper using the A / B example.
Could it be that people with different temperaments (melancholic, sanguine, etc.) might unconsciously tend to prefer a (out of tune) system that corresponds more to their own temperament? For example, I lovingly named my Nait 3R minor (key) amplifier because it may appeal to my temperament better. ??? An experienced Tune Demmer will of course choose a system that correctly reproduces the character and emotion of a piece of music ...? ... and perhaps has the feeling of missing something due to his temperament ...?
Yes, it got a sad meaning to it but I only used tunedem to get Into the Groove of the song to decide which one of the examples were the best. This often means spending less time on listening to the lyrics and such to get to the performance of the music the quickest. That way I can tunedem a song sung in the chinese language and tell which example moves me
the most without even understanding the lyrics.

Also. Your theory is interesting. Us people are complicated ones.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

Whatsmynaim wrote: 2021-01-14 06:54
Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-13 19:34
Whatsmynaim wrote: 2021-01-13 18:11 It's a dance track and A had more dance, so that's my pick.
B is lacking some of the forward motion and drive of the song.
Yes, very obviously, that's how you can see it.
But maybe you want to dance with tears in your eyes (B)

I would like to go a little deeper using the A / B example.
Could it be that people with different temperaments (melancholic, sanguine, etc.) might unconsciously tend to prefer a (out of tune) system that corresponds more to their own temperament? For example, I lovingly named my Nait 3R minor (key) amplifier because it may appeal to my temperament better. ??? An experienced Tune Demmer will of course choose a system that correctly reproduces the character and emotion of a piece of music ...? ... and perhaps has the feeling of missing something due to his temperament ...?
Yes, it got a sad meaning to it but I only used tunedem to get Into the Groove of the song to decide which one of the examples were the best. This often means spending less time on listening to the lyrics and such to get to the performance of the music the quickest. That way I can tunedem a song sung in the chinese language and tell which example moves me
the most without even understanding the lyrics.

Also. Your theory is interesting. Us people are complicated ones.
Interesting. I didn't know anything about the sad meaning. My English is far too bad to understood. It was just the effect of the piece of music that let me immerse myself in this mood. (B)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

"Interesting. I didn't know anything about the sad meaning. My English is far too bad to be understood. It was just the effect of the piece of music that let me immerse myself in this mood."

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me but you picked B. I doubt that will B ;) the one that wins when it comes to tunedem. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though. I've made the wrong choice before since few of us here are faultless tunedem machines. :)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

So I would try to tune the system so that the character (dance piece) and the mood (sadness) of the piece of music are preserved. So for me a mixture of A and B. I want to jump up to dance but with tears.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-14 07:38 So I would try to tune the system so that the character (dance piece) and the mood (sadness) of the piece of music are preserved. So for me a mixture of A and B. I want to jump up to dance but with tears.
I can't say you're wrong. Even Beck said "There are things in both clips I like."
Maybe the rubber feet used on Lejonklou's products will do the trick.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

I really like the feel of the “thumping” bass drum in clip B. If you focus in on it I find that you can feel a dance beat in that clip too.........
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

following the tune and emotion dont have to go along the same way - my understanding is that a system which involves you more emotionally can be ... but not necessarily is the more tunefull system.
I dont want to make things more complicated but thats my understanding.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

Defender wrote: 2021-01-14 14:11 following the tune and emotion dont have to go along the same way - my understanding is that a system which involves you more emotionally can be ... but not necessarily is the more tunefull system.

I hope I understand correctly.

Then the question arises for me: What do I expect from my system? Am I given the choice: a melodic system or a system that better triggers a roller coaster ride of emotions in me? I think I know the answer.

My understanding is that the Tune Dem method ultimately leads to a roller coaster of emotions.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-14 15:55
Defender wrote: following the tune and emotion dont have to go along the same way - my understanding is that a system which involves you more emotionally can be ... but not necessarily is the more tunefull system.

I hope I understand correctly.

Then the question arises for me: What do I expect from my system? Am I given the choice: a melodic system or a system that triggers a roller coaster of emotions in me? I think I know the answer.

My understanding is that the Tune Dem method ultimately leads to a roller coaster of emotions.
You guys are hitting on what I think of as the last frontier. I am not sure that we all agree completely on where it ends.

I know what I want. To me it ends with “one” sound that has maximum physical presence, maximum PRAT and maximum emotion but maybe not as fine etched as some would prefer.

Then there are ThomasOK, markiteight and maffe’s systems (among others) that has almost the same qualities but with the fine etched sound too.......

The above is my personal view and nothing else. I can easily be wrong!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by springwood64 »

I don't understand the separation of tuneful and emotion. I thought the approach is to use tunedem and tunefulness to navigate routes to systems that engage emotions. I'm not convinced there is a destination. Just a journey that can become more enjoyable.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by OscarH »

I’m also confused about the term “emotion”.

A system that triggers MY emotions would be a good thing. But trying to decipher the emotions of the artist and use that as a metric would appear to be highly subjective (in fact almost presumptuous as we clearly know nothing about them).

I thought the point (or at least one of the pints) of the tune method was to avoid excessive subjectivism?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by beck »

OscarH wrote: 2021-01-14 17:54
I thought the point (or at least one of the pints) of the tune method was to avoid excessive subjectivism?
It is. Words alone are not accurate. Discussions rooted in comparing clips are worth a lot more and they get us closer to the target.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

Exactly right, Beck.
I'm looking forward to more clips from you.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-14 15:55
Defender wrote: 2021-01-14 14:11 following the tune and emotion dont have to go along the same way - my understanding is that a system which involves you more emotionally can be ... but not necessarily is the more tunefull system.

I hope I understand correctly.

Then the question arises for me: What do I expect from my system? Am I given the choice: a melodic system or a system that better triggers a roller coaster ride of emotions in me? I think I know the answer.

My understanding is that the Tune Dem method ultimately leads to a roller coaster of emotions.
what I said is:
c a n b e ... but not necessarily i s the more tunefull system
think of Naim vs Linn - Naim is known for being more emotional - Linn is known for being more tunefull
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

Defender wrote: 2021-01-14 21:16
Eli7 wrote: 2021-01-14 15:55
Defender wrote: 2021-01-14 14:11 following the tune and emotion dont have to go along the same way - my understanding is that a system which involves you more emotionally can be ... but not necessarily is the more tunefull system.

I hope I understand correctly.

Then the question arises for me: What do I expect from my system? Am I given the choice: a melodic system or a system that better triggers a roller coaster ride of emotions in me? I think I know the answer.

My understanding is that the Tune Dem method ultimately leads to a roller coaster of emotions.
what I said is:
c a n b e ... but not necessarily i s the more tunefull system
think of Naim vs Linn - Naim is known for being more emotional - Linn is known for being more tunefull
That is my impression too. I miss the emotions in me when listening to my Linn System (compared to my Naim Naits that I once had).
I thought the more melodic system will trigger more emotions in me. So that's not true.
It's getting clearer now.
Thanks for the clarification.
Last edited by Eli7 on 2021-01-14 23:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

"think of Naim vs Linn - Naim is known for being more emotional - Linn is known for being more tunefull"

What are the advantages of a more tunefull system?
Last edited by Eli7 on 2021-01-14 23:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by lejonklou »

For me it's exactly like Eli7 first suggested in the following sentence:
The Tune Method ultimately leads to a roller coaster of emotions.

What's important to remember is that evaluating with the Tune Method is an almost instantaneous exercise. You do it, decide which alternative is more tuneful and then you're done.

The roller coaster of emotions is what you aim to experience whenever using the system. To validate that without using the Tune Method requires a lot of time. You might be impressed for a while with a certain component, but then you get used to its special sonic character and reconsider.

The Tune Method is a short cut to your long term satisfaction. To perform it you must be emotional and analytical at the same time. If you skip the focused analytical part, you are left with just the emotional impression. That can sometimes work, but you'll be prone to mistakes and affected by your current mood. If you skip the emotional part, you are left with just the analytical impression. Then you're an audiophile.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Eli7 »

Fredrik, thanks for the clarification!

"The roller coaster of emotions is what you aim to experience whenever using the system."
Yes, that's exactly what I want to experience!
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