Playground for practical listening exercises

[beck]

Yeah, I enjoy digital too. And that’s important because there’s lots of music that I want to listen to but it just wouldn’t be practical to get it all on vinyl.

But it’s an unfair comparison - there’s something very comforting about getting a vinyl ready for playback and eventually hearing the sound of the needle dropping. How can digital compete with stuff that happen even before the music starts playing?

One might argue that all of that is placebo... but is it really? If it helps your connection with the music then surely it’s real.

What you write makes so much sense to me OscarH.

[beck]

I have removed the links because something very interesting has turned up. Watch this spot......

Two cd’s. Which do you prefer?

A) https://www.dropbox.com/s/vf64d8ftw23jy ... 0.mov?dl=0

B) https://www.dropbox.com/s/h8tyyrz633k5l ... 8.mov?dl=0

[El Mero Mero]

EMM, There might be an opportunity to compare Linn to Naim amps again in a couple of weeks - I did do that a few days ago but the clips might have gone now - I can only store a dozen or so on dropbox without paying for a subscription.

That would be a wonderful "Christmas gift". Thank you Charlie!

[Robert Lake]

I have removed the links because something very interesting has turned up. Watch this spot......

Two cd’s. Which do you prefer?

A) https://www.dropbox.com/s/vf64d8ftw23jy ... 0.mov?dl=0

B) https://www.dropbox.com/s/h8tyyrz633k5l ... 8.mov?dl=0

I prefer A - far better.

[Spannko]

I think I might prefer B. The guitar seems to be a smidge more tuneful, but it’s quite close and not easy to tell.

[beck]

I have removed the links because something very interesting has turned up. Watch this spot......

Two cd’s. Which do you prefer?

A) https://www.dropbox.com/s/vf64d8ftw23jy ... 0.mov?dl=0

B) https://www.dropbox.com/s/h8tyyrz633k5l ... 8.mov?dl=0

I prefer A - far better.

Hi Robert. I am interested in what it is you find far better in A? Can you describe it?

[OscarH]

I have removed the links because something very interesting has turned up. Watch this spot......

Two cd’s. Which do you prefer?

A) https://www.dropbox.com/s/vf64d8ftw23jy ... 0.mov?dl=0

B) https://www.dropbox.com/s/h8tyyrz633k5l ... 8.mov?dl=0

Tricky one...
It’s when the band comes in that this number gets difficult and where the vinyl easily won in the previous set of clips.

B might be a bit more in tune, but it also lacks something. Timing maybe? A seems more precise in that respect although some of the backing instruments are a bit off.

[Charlie1]

Finding it difficult to decide. I will try again later.

[beck]

Finding it difficult to decide. I will try again later.

Some very interesting answers from you all and I agree. This is not as clear cut as could be expected.
I will wait a little yet before disclosure..........

[tokenbrit]

B sounds twangy and cheesy like a joke song, and the percussion seems to drag... A sounds like a more genuine attempt to perform the piece.

[beck]

Disclosure:

Driving my dads car has been very illuminating. The cd player in the car has a display that tells the listener how the cd is coded! So, I discovered that some of my cd’s are coded as MP3 and not as redbook cd.

A is a redbook cd.

B is a MP3 coded cd.

[OscarH]

Interesting!

How does it sound in the room?

I recently, by mistake, had Spotify running at 96kbps instead of 320 and it was so bad I thought something was broken...

Edit: meant to elaborate a bit... once back at 320 (or other reasonable resolution) lossy formats aren’t too bad really.

[Robert Lake]

I have removed the links because something very interesting has turned up. Watch this spot......

Two cd’s. Which do you prefer?

A) https://www.dropbox.com/s/vf64d8ftw23jy ... 0.mov?dl=0

B) https://www.dropbox.com/s/h8tyyrz633k5l ... 8.mov?dl=0

I prefer A - far better.

Hi Robert. I am interested in what it is you find far better in A? Can you describe it?

I prefer A because the first thing I react to on B is the guitar. The person playing seem a bit out of tune, trying somthing too advanced for his level of guitar skill perhaps. Bad timing you could say. Then the singing. The way gay sings on A is so much better, smoother, i can follow the words so much easier, the gap between single words and verses are better (=better timing), and when I listen I can easily predict the next word that coming and therebuy understandd the lyrics better insted of hearinh HiFi qualities in lacjk of better words.

Now, B has some HiFi qualities, more dynamics perhaps, But much harder to follow and enjoy. And I do not really want to listen to it again. Track A on the other hand is far more intresting, more natural, it lets me focus on the music, take in the lyrics of the song rather than being distrubed by thinking about how is the guy singing in terms of his technique. I find B a bit boring in comparision.

[beck]

Thank you for your explanation Robert! :-)


I think tokenbrit's short (as well as Roberts long) description got pretty close.

MP3 is not that bad to listen to. At first it seems to create a “thicker” sound (than normal cd) that can be appealing but after a while redbook cd wins through a more genuine sound.

[tokenbrit]

What do we win? *not* the mp3 encoded cd, thanks :p

[Spannko]

I’ve added another option to the 4 & 6mm cables. You can’t miss them, they’re bright pink and yellow!

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B125qXGF1HNqUx6

[beck]

New option is clean and slightly thin sounding to me and in some ways very precise. I still think I prefer A (4 mm).

[Charlie1]

Some very interesting answers from you all and I agree. This is not as clear cut as could be expected.
I will wait a little yet before disclosure..........

Sorry, one of those days beck but at least we're busy so can't complain.

It makes a bit more sense now - knowing what's what.

I felt A was more tuneful when I listened this morning but once all the instruments kicked in then B offered something too which was what I struggled with. I still find B lighter on its feet about 20 sec onwards, although one time it also seemed to drag like tokenbrit described. I still suspect it's possible to listen / appreciate music in different ways as if your brain can be in one of two modes, but that's besides the point really. Not sure I've helped much.

[Charlie1]

I’ve added another option to the 4 & 6mm cables. You can’t miss them, they’re bright pink and yellow!

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B125qXGF1HNqUx6

Finding them all quite close really. I do like pink. It does seem thinner like beck says but very tuneful and the music just flows along effortlessly - you might not see this as much of a compliment but it seems as effortless to me as Briks/Kans. I'd probably need a fresh start and new track to pick between pink and the next best though. Can you live with pink or too lean?

[tokenbrit]

I’ve added another option to the 4 & 6mm cables. You can’t miss them, they’re bright pink and yellow!

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B125qXGF1HNqUx6

Is this an update (further burn-in) of the 4mm or something different? It sounds snappy and, possibly, slightly louder than the previous 4mm clips... It certainly swings along nicely, but I can't quite decide if it's lost anything musically compared to the last DS clip - it almost feels a bit rushed in comparison, which means I'm leaning to your 4mm burn-in clip from a day or two ago in preference.
I'm not getting the "thinner" - maybe my laptop speakers mask that, or the pace doesn't convey the weight. Either way I'm sticking with 'blue' for now as I get more connection to the music - final answer ;)

[markiteight]

Some very interesting answers from you all and I agree. This is not as clear cut as could be expected.
I will wait a little yet before disclosure..........

Sorry, one of those days beck but at least we're busy so can't complain.

It makes a bit more sense now - knowing what's what.

I felt A was more tuneful when I listened this morning but once all the instruments kicked in then B offered something too which was what I struggled with. I still find B lighter on its feet about 20 sec onwards, although one time it also seemed to drag like tokenbrit described. I still suspect it's possible to listen / appreciate music in different ways as if your brain can be in one of two modes, but that's besides the point really. Not sure I've helped much.

Yours is very similar to my experience with these clips, Charlie1. Initially I felt B had a more impressive, "hi-fi" sound, which immediately made me suspicious. But once all the players came in it offered something compelling...a greater sense of motion, perhaps. Clip A gave me more emotion however, so that's my choice.

[beck]

Bravo gentlemen! Some very, very fine observations indeed. :-)

[Spannko]

Thanks chaps 🙂

I think you’ve all picked up on what I’m hearing at home.

Between the 4mm & 6mm cables, I find the 4mm the most tuneful, but after an initial improvement and longer listening, there’s still something about the sound I find unpleasant. It’s as if it’s not fully letting the juice through, and constraining the sound. The 6mm sounds very pleasant, but struggles with the tune very slightly.

One thing I’ve noticed is that as the cables get larger, the sound becomes “too relaxed”, a bit like a “nice” woolly valve amp, and the musicality worsens. It’s not possible to buy anything in between 4 & 6mm, so I decided to have a go at making my own by combining two 2.5mm cables. The hope was that the sound would fill out a bit without loosing the musicality of the 4mm cable.

D9A4D147-9777-42E0-AF96-5DECA0C920FA.jpeg

The new pink/yellow video was recorded after about 30 mins of the new and previously unused cable being installed, so there’s a possibility that it will improve over time. Also about 100mm of the 4mm cable is being used as a connector. I know this isn’t ideal, but it took about 6 hrs to weave the cable, by which time I’d really had enough and I just wanted to get the damn thing in easily to give me an idea about how it sounds.

If the cable improves, I’ll make a recording for you all to hear.

[tokenbrit]

I was tempted to ask if you'd found a 5mm2 alternative... :D

Interesting pattern - any reason for that? I can see that the cables cross as close to right-angles as possible, but they're all live on one side, and neutral on the other... Is that theoretically or empirically better than a loose spiral? (just curious)

[Spannko]

I’d love to say it was intentional, but it really wasn’t, that’s just how it turned out. It’s an interesting weave though - none of the wires coil round another, not even the “earth” wire which holds it all together. Whether this is a good thing, I’ve no idea!

Update: I’ve just been listening to the 5mm cable on an iPad and I’ve got to say I don’t like what I hear ☹️ I’m going to leave it for a couple of days, but it feels fundamentally wrong so I’m not expecting much improvement. Then I’ll go back to the 4mm cable and try and give it a bit longer to settle down. The only fly in the ointment is that I can’t help but wonder what a cable of 2.5 + 1.5 + 1.0 sounds like, and can I resist the temptation to try it 🤣