Playground for practical listening exercises

[kallesprätt]

I prefer programmed.

[beck]

...........and remember the three dots in the upper right corner of the videos making it easy to download and compare on ones own device.

[Charlie1]

I prefer normal but had to listen on an apple device to come to a decision (my work windows pc and sony phone are not very tuneful).

[Flowmotion]

The programmed version is more tuneful imho.

All the best /F

[lejonklou]

Here is a funny one! 😃

Do you prefer the music in normal playback or as part of a programmed playlist?

Normal : https://www.dropbox.com/s/1q6dtqzawgbmn ... 5.mov?dl=0

Program: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pr8lec67t8dic ... 9.mov?dl=0

Tricky one for me.

I hear the programmed one as more dynamic, sharp and distinct. The normal one feels more relaxed. Anyone else hear the differences that way?

My first impression was that programmed was better, but when I went back, normal had something good in it as well.

[Spannko]

Programmed more tuneful for me.

[beck]

Tricky one for me.

I hear the programmed one as more dynamic, sharp and distinct. The normal one feels more relaxed. Anyone else hear the differences that way?

My first impression was that programmed was better, but when I went back, normal had something good in it as well.

I fully agree with your description of the clips and that this comparison is not easy (though easier in the room).

I will give my take on the comparison later.

[Tendaberry]

Here is a funny one! 😃

Do you prefer the music in normal playback or as part of a programmed playlist?

Normal : https://www.dropbox.com/s/1q6dtqzawgbmn ... 5.mov?dl=0

Program: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pr8lec67t8dic ... 9.mov?dl=0

Tricky one for me.

I hear the programmed one as more dynamic, sharp and distinct. The normal one feels more relaxed. Anyone else hear the differences that way?

My first impression was that programmed was better, but when I went back, normal had something good in it as well.

That's exactly what I heard as well and couldn't really decide. Could live with both (if I had a NAD CD-player ;-)

[beck]

I completely agree with you Tendaberry that the NAD is not spitzenklasse as you might put it but working with this cd player has certainly taught me a thing or two. :-)

[beck]

I could have shown you that “random mode” produce a third result but I will stop here. :-)

My preferred playback using my cd player is normal mode.

The reason is that program mode gives me a thinner and less organic sound in my room. It is more on edge than normal mode and draws more attention to the sound.

The flow and more relaxed nature of normal mode makes long listening sessions a plessure.

[Flowmotion]

Hello. If I may ad spmething to my ipmpression, the guidar acc. Is obviously more tuneful with a more accurate pitch in the playlist. The voice is also more articulated but makes me confused since some qualities also gone lost. Tricky one! 😊.

/F

[beck]

Hello. If I may ad spmething to my ipmpression, the guidar acc. Is obviously more tuneful with a more accurate pitch in the playlist. The voice is also more articulated but makes me confused since some qualities also gone lost. Tricky one! 😊.

/F

Thank you for the input Flowmotion. I agree with your observations and this is a tricky one.

What I have experienced during my year long search is that sometimes it is better to choose the lesser sounding option to gain other qualities.

You can be too focused on tune issues inside the music signal while damaging the coherence of the full music signal.
That is why I now have a less impressive sounding cd playback but more enjoyable musically (at least to me). 😃

[Whatsmynaim]

The programmed has an almost metal sounding edge to it which I recognize from when trying different settings on my Oppo. Still it can sound pretty nice, especially on good recordings but long term it's grating.

[lejonklou]

You can be too focused on tune issues inside the music signal while damaging the coherence of the full music signal.

Word!

I find this tendency to be very common on most modern HiFi equipment. It's where you often end up when you don't listen carefully and know what to listen for. Most impressive sound wins.

[Spannko]

You can be too focused on tune issues inside the music signal while damaging the coherence of the full music signal.

Word!

I find this tendency to be very common on most modern HiFi equipment. It's where you often end up when you don't listen carefully and know what to listen for. Most impressive sound wins.

I’m not sure what’s being agreed or disagreed with here!

[Whatsmynaim]

I think they agree on the need to not focus on details like the tune of separate instruments. Only bad hifi breaks down music into parts like that.

Edit: And Beck prefer musical understanding instead of an impressive sound which Fredrik also brings up.

[Spannko]

That’s what I thought. Thanks for the clarification.

I always thought this tune dem malarkey was overrated too 😂🤣😂

[V.A.MKD]

Here is a funny one! 😃

Do you prefer the music in normal playback or as part of a programmed playlist?

Normal : https://www.dropbox.com/s/1q6dtqzawgbmn ... 5.mov?dl=0

Program: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pr8lec67t8dic ... 9.mov?dl=0

Hi Beck,
Little late (night & day ... music :-) with ...

I'm for normal ...
Vocal (and as well everything else) is more in tune on Normal ... especially in first part ... where she have improvisation ...
On Program ... Everything is more analytical, hifi, impressive ... fireworks like ... Vocal in first part is excessive not rely in tune with rest of the music ... it's not for late night in Bar and relaxing ... :-)

[V.A.MKD]

Here is a funny one! 😃

Do you prefer the music in normal playback or as part of a programmed playlist?

Normal : https://www.dropbox.com/s/1q6dtqzawgbmn ... 5.mov?dl=0

Program: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pr8lec67t8dic ... 9.mov?dl=0

Tricky one for me.

I hear the programmed one as more dynamic, sharp and distinct. The normal one feels more relaxed. Anyone else hear the differences that way?

+1, Yes ... absolutely ...

[beck]

Final comments from me regarding the clips before removal:

When listening in my room the differences are the same as has been mentioned in the answers above plus some that are not easily heard using the clips.

I am sure that anyone listening in my room would end up preferring normal mode which gives a free, expansive and relaxed rendition of the music.

Program mode is more like playing music with a straitjacket on.

The differences between normal mode and program mode are the same whatever I put on. They are repeatable.

[lejonklou]

I’m not sure what’s being agreed or disagreed with here!

I assure you that it was very clear in my head when I posted it.

I also do remember that I while I fully agreed with what beck wrote, I would have preferred a different word than "tune". But before I could formulate it, I fell asleep.

I think Whatsmynaim got it perfectly. :)

[Spannko]

I think they agree on the need to not focus on details like the tune of separate instruments. Only bad hifi breaks down music into parts like that.

Edit: And Beck prefer musical understanding instead of an impressive sound which Fredrik also brings up.

Not to focus on the tune of separate instruments? Never in my life have I heard a “good” system which plays out of tune!

I’ve heard loads of “impressive” sounding systems which can sound OK, but then struggle when trying to reproduce a broader range of music. The tune never lies!

“Musical Understanding” is far too subjective for my liking. How do we resolve a situation whereby one person gets tremendous satisfaction from a piece of music which leaves another completely cold? Is the system “good” or “bad” ? Musical Understanding doesn’t help us answer this question.

[beck]

For my part this is not an attack on the tune method. It is more a recognition that the clips we make can fool us in some areas more than others when talking about very, very small differences.

The method (using clips) when closing in on the instruments being or not being in tune is not accurate enough. Put it another way we are maybe not good enough when trying to decode the clips.

Regarding my clips I assure you that non of them sound out of tune in my room but one is relaxed and the other is a bit up tight sounding.



This reminds me of a story about a german symphony orchestra getting a new conductor. This conductor wanted to change the way the orchestra sounded by working with pitch and tune in a very delicate way.
The answer from the musicians when he tried to make them work with him to make small changes to the overall sound was:

“Are you saying that we are not playing in tune?!”

[Flowmotion]

Hi Beck, thanks for sharing your story! I think there might be an misunderstanding here. No one has claimed that any of your two clips were out of tune. Nevertheless in the programmed clip it was clearly much easier to follow the melody in the intro, at least on a simple device as an iPad Pro. It had an impact and made sense. That beauty did not reveal itself in the normal clip.
Then the phrasing and her jazzy timbre was all gone when she started to sing and then it is easy to understand why nobody approves.
We are all looking for beauty in music and I guess if you are an engineer you must be very careful since it seems impossible to mend musicality that has already been destroyed. As an audience you want to hear music at it’s best and as in my case not being totally aware of the reasons why one technology is better the the other. Still I believe we all have the same goal.

All the best / F

[lejonklou]

“Musical Understanding” is far too subjective for my liking.

I feel quite the opposite. Musical understanding is what it's all about! And it's usually less subjective than other topics in the world of reproduced music. Especially when you do it live, together with others.

Pitch accuracy is the first and very important step on the way to musical understanding. Then follows how easily tunes can be understood. Then the understanding of complex tunes, nuances and interplay. That is what I mean by musical understanding.

It's easy to fall for a perceived improvement in the lower hierarchies. An audiophile might say "This appears to have more detail", a tune demmer might say "This guitar seems sharper and more in tune", while someone in search of musical understanding might say "This better conveys the essence of the piece".

“Are you saying that we are not playing in tune?!”

Ha! That's a good one!

Then the phrasing and her jazzy timbre was all gone when she started to sing and then it is easy to understand why nobody approves.

Thanks for your thoughtful post, Flowmotion! Can you clarify what you meant with the above? Did you mean that her jazzy timbre was all gone in the programmed clip?