Playground for practical listening exercises

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Tendaberry
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry »

markiteight wrote: 2020-03-15 03:48 Option A:
Dire Straits: https://youtu.be/5qDufQW2gtY
Peter Gabriel: https://youtu.be/ZJNo5cWT4jw
Mendelssohn: https://youtu.be/AoZzmbFDGaE
The New Pornographers: https://youtu.be/Gl2tgfYde0s

Option B:
Dire Straits: https://youtu.be/XbVDLz9yb2A
Peter Gabriel: https://youtu.be/YfFZOCIvqOs
Mendelssohn: https://youtu.be/ytBs7EyuHCQ
The New Pornographers: https://youtu.be/EKUEn0xl1Qw
Like all the others said, B is quite a bit better.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

Just connected my old Planar 2 whilst the Radikal LP12 is having some work done. I swear this is more fun than the P10. Obviously, doesn't sound so good but surprised how good it does sound.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

:-)

Well, do not knock the little ones! And keep an open mind.....
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

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I'm trying to optimise my digital playback, here are 3 clips containing 2 possible improvements (or not...)
Which of the clips is the best one?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3ebihzzgl7ne ... 0.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y3jekofooc9z4 ... 6.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktiry5zq3so9o ... 7.mov?dl=0
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

I prefer the first clip. The music is easier for me to understand and get into.

Tendaberry, you owe us an explanation regarding the picture. Is it a scientist playing back animal calls to see if they react to it or? :-)
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Tendaberry
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry »

beck wrote: 2020-03-16 18:05 I prefer the first clip. The music is easier for me to understand and get into.

Tendaberry, you owe us an explanation regarding the picture. Is it a scientist playing back animal calls to see if they react to it or? :-)
Well, I'm a movie buff and the picture is from Werner Herzog's Fitzcarraldo from 1982. It's about an excentric opera fan (played by Klaus Kinski), who dreams about opening an opera house in the Peruvian jungle, hoping he can engage Enrico Caruso to perform there.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by kampak »

thats right, Klaus Kinski seems to be curious what reactions he could get from humanoids, not animals 😬
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by kampak »

prefer the 1st clip, too
next is 3rd for me
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender »

its between the first and the third clip the second one is out of the game
Kinski was a talented actor but also a psyco

edit: also clip 1 for me clip 3 comes in second
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by 17brutus »

Version 1 is the best. It is an easier decision on IPad. After that, Version 3.
Two is out of Tune. Sorry
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

I had a listen earlier on my awful pc monitor speakers and also felt it was definitely not 2, but I couldn't decide between 1 and 3. Listening again on some decent headphones and I also prefer 1.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

17brutus wrote: 2020-03-16 21:52 Version 1 is the best. It is an easier decision on IPad. After that, Version 3.
Two is out of Tune. Sorry
Hi 17,
First welcome on the forum ... one very good, if not best place for Music Lovers ... on the planet :-)
Now one question what type of iPad you have??? Q in direction to ... if possible to standardize on what we are doing Tune Method ... and to have real valid results ...
All the Best
Music First ...
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

Tendaberry wrote: 2020-03-16 17:40 I'm trying to optimise my digital playback, here are 3 clips containing 2 possible improvements (or not...)
Which of the clips is the best one?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3ebihzzgl7ne ... 0.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y3jekofooc9z4 ... 6.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktiry5zq3so9o ... 7.mov?dl=0
Hi Tendaberry,
Foe me the best is 1st, than 3rd and last 2nd, but I think second have some noise ... out of music, maybe some technical issue ... also on 2nd sound is like inverted phase ... maybe I'm wrong ...
Music First ...
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

Defender wrote: 2020-03-16 19:02 its between the first and the third clip the second one is out of the game
Kinski was a talented actor but also a psyco

edit: also clip 1 for me clip 3 comes in second
+1, but also have nice family ;-)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender »

how is markiteight doing with his torques?
I had the feeling 0.6 +4.5 would come out best but I am afraid he never had tried
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry »

Tendaberry wrote: 2020-03-16 17:40 I'm trying to optimise my digital playback, here are 3 clips containing 2 possible improvements (or not...)
Which of the clips is the best one?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3ebihzzgl7ne ... 0.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y3jekofooc9z4 ... 6.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktiry5zq3so9o ... 7.mov?dl=0
The first one is with standard power supplies for router (Fritzbox 7590) and Qnap. The second clip is with an external linear regulated power supply for the router. And in the third clip the LPS acts as power supply for both router and Qnap.
Since everyone preferred the original power supplies, how about between these two then?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3ebihzzgl7ne ... 0.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s2izvc5nz3n5 ... 6.mov?dl=0
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

The first (top) clip invites me in. My pick......

And thank you for the explanation regarding your picture! :-)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by 17brutus »

The first one is much better.
Have a nice day.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

Yep, 1 for me too.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by kampak »

same here, #1 fits the bill, #2 doesn‘t
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by markiteight »

Defender wrote: 2020-03-17 12:41 how is markiteight doing with his torques?
I had the feeling 0.6 +4.5 would come out best but I am afraid he never had tried
I apologize for the suspense, it's been a busy couple days. I was also holding out to see if we might have any detractors but it appears the vote is unanimous, which is great!

I did try +4.5 but ultimately found +4 to be the best. I do agree with some of your previous comments that even at the optimum torque something was still missing. While it was indeed more musical there were aspects that got worse as the torque went down, which brings us to the last set of clips.

What you are listening to are two different main wideband drivers (I hesitate to call them woofers as they play up to 12kHz). Zu was kind enough to lend me a pair of their "High Output" Zu103HO/G1-16 drivers to evaluate. This is the model that's used in most of their higher end speakers (Soul Supreme, Omen Def, Definition, and Dominance). It has a higher sensitivity (101dB/W/m vs. 97 dB/W/m) and higher impedance (16 Ohms vs. 12 Ohms) compared to the Omen's stock Zu260FRD/G4. Zu describes the High Output driver as having "better shove and attack. Better overall dynamic expression, better presence and will be more open and detailed" while the stock Omen offers "a bit more warmth and richness and will be more forgiving." Sounds enticing, doesn't it?

Option A is the High Output 103 driver. Option B is the stock Omen 260 driver. All of the torque comparison recordings I posted over the past couple weeks were made with the HO driver in situ.
beck wrote: 2020-03-15 09:51 I prefer option B. It has it’s dance shoes on. Maybe less precise? but the music becomes my focus instantly.

Option A is to me a little more matter of fact in it’s presentation.
I think beck's description pretty much nails it. When I first installed the 103s I was unable to torque them to the factory recommended 15Nm. Max value for the Cal 36/4 is 4Nm, so that's where they were initially set. While I did find them slightly more musical I was bothered by the torque disparity. More than one variable had been changed and I couldn't be sure that what I was hearing was down to the driver change. I figured the best way to level the playing field was to find the optimum torque and then re-evaluate. I'm sure glad I did as the result is quite different!

One of the Omen's strong suits is its seamlessness throughout its passband. There's none of that "many different sounds from many different locations" you get with most multi-way loudspeakers. As we zeroed in on the optimum torque that seamlessness was lost. In the bass region the glorious tunefulness and speed (another Omen strong suit) was replaced with more of a one note thump...a thump that was lagging behind the rest of the music ever so slightly. The tweeter, which usually blends so well with the main driver it makes you wonder if it's doing anything at all, sounded completely discombobulated. Many different sounds from many different locations. And then there was that midrange shout. Needless to say even though we made huge strides in the Omen's musical performance I was not satisfied with the outcome. I reeeeeely hoped switching back to the stock drivers would see the return of the Omen's mojo.

Boy did it ever.

Back is the fast, tuneful, timely bass. Back is the floor-to-ceiling seamlessness. Gone is the angry shouty midrange, replaced by a warm, snuggly blanket of glorious music. I'm extremely pleased with the result. The system as a whole is now operating at a level that will make social distancing much easier. The HO drivers will be headed back to Zu.

I still need to find the optimal torque for the tweeter lens, but I will try to do that on my own. I have some other experiments which should prove interesting, so stay tuned!

Again I want to thank everyone for their guidance and wisdom. I wouldn't have made here without you!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit »

Time for a little experiment: one small change; is it audible in this setup? If so, which is Better?
A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2hv2szb9ha37 ... 9.mp4?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z0ryvupt9iriu ... 1.mp4?dl=0

This is my first go at recording so here's hoping that me & the phone are up to the task, and the clips are ok... can redo if not.


Bonus track just for a little fun :)
A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/98wxwea1rilak ... 0.mp4?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9tqqr59nlr6v6 ... 1.mp4?dl=0
Last edited by tokenbrit on 2020-03-17 22:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender »

with a first fast listen I would tend to B
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

Something about A (in the first track) gave me the initial impression of better timing, especially the drumming. More snappy perhaps. However, I agree with Defender that, ultimately, B is making more sense of the music.

Sounds good tokenbrit. My only criticism is that your TV is too small ;)

Am I right in thinking you have Spendor speakers?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-03-17 23:34 Something about A in the first track gives the initial impression of better timing, especially the drumming. However, I agree with Defender that, ultimately, B is making more sense of the music.

Sounds good tokenbrit. My only criticism is that your TV is too small.

Am I right in thinking you have Spendor speakers?
Yes, these are my S5e Spendors.
Must be time for a TV upgrade :)
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