Playground for practical listening exercices

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-12-11 19:53

Clip 1 gets my vote.

Clip 2 feels rushed, as Charlie wrote. It also feels more "random", as my kids would put it. Like they're on drugs and think they're playing better, while they're actually just playing worse.

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-12-11 20:17

Clip one also for me. I notice that the intervals (distance between notes) seems a little squeezed in the second clip (maybe a connection to the hurried feeling).

I really like the first clip.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-12-11 20:47

First clip was great for me. I got a sense that the system was getting all the fundamentals right ie timing and tune/harmonicity sounded really nice. Clip 2 felt a bit of a car crash!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by teatime » 2019-12-13 15:03

To follow up; The piece is Calcutta Cutie of the Horace Silver album Song for my Father

The system setup is Volumio running on an Asus Tinkerboard into a ESI GIgaport DAC into a set of Genelec 8020D active speakers (I would like to try a Kikkin here, if I ever find one) - my "office hifi", as it were.

The comparison made here is between a Audioquest Cinnamon (clip #1) and a Supra (clip #2) USB cable between Tinkerboard and DAC.

When I initially made this comparison myself, it wasn't' with recorded clips, obviously. I didn't use speakers at all, but listened via a headphone amp and a set of Grado headphones. I had a very strong preference for the Supra cable at the time.

I was surprised at the strong (well.. 3-1) majority of support for the audioquest clip, but listening more carefully to the clips myself, I don't entirely disagree... There is something rythmically off about clip #2, at least superficially. In the first part of the clip (before the horn) the timing seems off. And yet, listening to it again through headphones, I feel this is much less the case.

If I just let the clips play (90 seconds, was perhaps a bit long) and forget to compare, it's invariably clip #2 that makes me upset when it ends. Apparently, I do lose myself more into the music in clip #2.

Confusing. Perhaps I need to try the AQ cable again...

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-12-13 20:32

OK, I guess I get to be an outlier as I definitely prefer clip 2. I listened again after reading the other comments but came up with the same decision I had before reading them. Dissonant piano is fine, out of tune dissonant piano, as I hear on clip 1, is not. I really don't hear the rhythmic problems with clip 2 - it seems to move better to me and the piano and brass are in tune.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-12-14 10:57

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-12-13 20:32
OK, I guess I get to be an outlier as I definitely prefer clip 2. I listened again after reading the other comments but came up with the same decision I had before reading them. Dissonant piano is fine, out of tune dissonant piano, as I hear on clip 1, is not. I really don't hear the rhythmic problems with clip 2 - it seems to move better to me and the piano and brass are in tune.
You have made me turn on this one ThomasOK. I am more in the clip 2 camp now (like Charlie1 also).
Not completely settled on either clip I think I would go with the Supra cable.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-12-14 23:00

I was going to say that I was more comfortable with 1, but since jazz makes me uncomfortable, that probably means 2 is better.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by teatime » 2019-12-16 07:55

tokenbrit wrote:
2019-12-14 23:00
I was going to say that I was more comfortable with 1, but since jazz makes me uncomfortable, that probably means 2 is better.
Hehe, I tried to play this to my girlfriend, but her only reply was "Why are you doing this to me? Why torture me like this?". She's not a jazz fan either..

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by u252agz » 2019-12-17 09:55

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-12-13 20:32
OK, I guess I get to be an outlier as I definitely prefer clip 2. I listened again after reading the other comments but came up with the same decision I had before reading them. Dissonant piano is fine, out of tune dissonant piano, as I hear on clip 1, is not. I really don't hear the rhythmic problems with clip 2 - it seems to move better to me and the piano and brass are in tune.
I am in inclined to go with Teatimes girlfriend but in terms of tune, I agree with ThomasOK, and prefer Clip 2

Interesting that there is so much variance with these clips - maybe there is an optimal cable out there that would outperform both of the clips.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-12-17 12:39

Am I the only one who likes this tune? Have to get the lp... And I prefer clip 1 in this case (using an iMac for evaluation).

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Ron The Mon » 2019-12-17 14:34

I love the tune as well!

I prefer the second clip. At first I thought it was double trumpets. Relistening I guessed it was a trumpet and a sax. But then I heard it was a trumpet and vibes!

Going back-and-forth several times I realized the melody is played by a sax, trumpet, and vibes.

I think Tom has hit the nail on the head because the piano is actually out of tune. Track two makes the piano sound like it’s out of tune, which is more correct if that makes sense.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-12-17 18:00

Tendaberry wrote:
2019-12-17 12:39
Am I the only one who likes this tune? Have to get the lp... And I prefer clip 1 in this case (using an iMac for evaluation).
Not at all! I really like it too and have ordered the album!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-12-25 10:11

The story of my cd player NAD C 542 began many years ago when I thought that I should have a new one to play the small collection of cd’s I own.

I never really got on with it having a Sondek in the house so it stod idle for a long period of time (years).

It was only when my last Klyde died about a year ago I took an interest in trying to get something musical out of it.

Focus was on setup only. A period of trying and shaking my head (not good enough) went by but my latest efforts has made me reconsider.

Best try almost a year ago:

Link removed

I went back to records again.

My renewed hope came this month with a new approach to handling vibrations on the player itself and it’s power cable.

Link removed

Where I am now (and I continue my search):

Link removed

I am now enjoying cd replay noticing that I still nod my head when listening from the kitchen whatever music I am listening to.
Last edited by beck on 2019-12-29 02:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-12-26 00:44

It's the first clip that intruiges me most in a way. It's so different to the others. It sounds like music but it really isn't. So close, yet so far.

It would be great if you can share some of what you're doing. After all, we all have mains cables.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-12-26 00:47

Your enthusiasm is inspiring, beck! You just don't quit even though it seems like an uphill battle with this player.

I am unfortunately not convinced by the clips. The two last ones seem tonally darker and the most recent one with an increased emphasis on noise from fingers on strings. I would rate it last of the three. I have trouble choosing between the first and the second, slightly leaning towards the first, as in the second I feel the guitar is less well tuned.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-12-26 01:09

A bit of extra information:

My first clip (almost a year old) left me with some cd’s alright to listen to but in most part I did not care much for the music on cd.

What has happend now is that I can listen through whole cd’s (any cd) without fatigue and enjoy the music. That makes all the difference to me.

If it is more or less “right” I am not that focused on at the moment.

You are right Charlie1 about the first clip. I really tried hard with that one but never completely got it where I wanted it.

The cd in the clips has been one of the hardest to get a satisfying result from in my collection.

As my setup is different to almost all others (not using a normal preamp) it is also I guess much more sensitive to changes.
All I do is experiment with bluetac (is that the name?) and some of my rubber pieces and listen.


I have just noticed that my dropbox has two versions of the same clip! and they do sound slightly different to me (the one above less relaxed?)

With same date and time here is my “now” clip:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8349bsvuuvlzv ... 9.mov?dl=0
Last edited by beck on 2019-12-26 02:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-12-26 02:13

I think I can hear why you like the third one beck, for me, it seems the most musical too.

Blu Tack on your mains cables? That sounds interesting and something I’ve not heard of before. So what’s your secret then ? ;-)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-12-26 02:15

Spannko wrote:
2019-12-26 02:13
I think I can hear why you like the third one beck, for me, it seems the most musical too.

Blu Tack on your mains cables? That sounds interesting and something I’ve not heard of before. So what’s your secret then ? ;-)
Not directly on the mains cable (on the cd player). I will post some pictures at some point when I have a more clear opinion about the changes.

P.S.

I only post now to get the “playground” past 300.000 views so I can finally call it off! :-)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-12-26 18:31

Rapidly closing in on 300.000 views I hope I can stand down from this tread and forum. As fun as it has been it would be a relief for me (and for you too) if I could stop feeling the urge to post. :-)

Last cd clip from me (nothing special) is swedish:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/50hz0u814774i ... 5.mov?dl=0

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by David Neel » 2019-12-26 18:44

beck wrote:
2019-12-26 18:31
Rapidly closing in on 300.000 views I hope I can stand down from this tread and forum. As fun as it has been it would be a relief for me (and for you too) if I could stop feeling the urge to post. :-)
300,000 done. Please don't go!
The less a person knows, the more certainly he knows it.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-12-26 22:23

Blimey, that's a lot of views.

Hopefully more beck clips and posts in 2020.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-12-27 01:02

beck wrote:
2019-12-26 18:31
Rapidly closing in on 300.000 views I hope I can stand down from this tread and forum. As fun as it has been it would be a relief for me (and for you too) if I could stop feeling the urge to post. :-)

Last cd clip from me (nothing special) is swedish:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/50hz0u814774i ... 5.mov?dl=0
Bo Kaspers!

Thank you.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-12-27 12:02

I didn’t realise how popular this thread was either. 300,000+ views is pretty amazing! Well done to all!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-12-27 20:54

Fun clip, I enjoyed it. 300,000 is quite impressive. It is a very neat thread, not the least by causing consternation on other forums that we are all listening to iPhone, etc. clips here. :-)
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Netgear v Cisco Network Switch

Post by Spannko » 2019-12-28 01:22

By popular demand, here’s a comparison between the Netgear GS108v3 (with the standard supplied PS) and the Cisco 2960 8TC-L.

The source is Qobuz at 320kB/s through a standard Virgin modem/router, through 10m of Cat5 into a Netgear 108 with all 8 ports in use (I’ll check the exact model tomorrow), then through about 30m of Cat5e to a wall socket next to the HiFi. Then it’s 2.5m of bjc to either the Cisco or Netgear switch and finally 3m of Meicord to the KDS.

The Netgear is first, followed by the Cisco. Enjoy!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s9jqceapjre ... RhVSa?dl=0

PS I’ve got a GS108T somewhere. I should be able to find it tomorrow.
Last edited by Spannko on 2019-12-28 02:00, edited 1 time in total.

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