Playground for practical listening exercices

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-11-16 23:19

Quite a challenge with 6 clips so I just went with first impressions. I had to split them down into pairs and pitch the winners against one another. I agree with Tendaberry and New MK, closely followed by Old MK.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-11-17 00:27

Thanks Charlie1 and Tendaberry. I agree with you both that the new MK is best, followed by the older version of the same mcb.

This latest video is with the new MK and same length cable vs the new MK with a shortened mains cable.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f5gj56bqvk0 ... IINOa?dl=0

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-11-17 09:28

Sounds really good Spannko. I just wanted to listen to the song and not bother with comparisons :)

I couldn't decide between these two late last night. L2 certainly sounds sharper and more lively without any obvious loss in musicality. However, L1 does seem to gel a little bit more this morning. I think I'll stay on the fence.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by anthony » 2019-11-17 09:45

Spannko wrote:
2019-11-17 00:27
Thanks Charlie1 and Tendaberry. I agree with you both that the new MK is best, followed by the older version of the same mcb.

This latest video is with the new MK and same length cable vs the new MK with a shortened mains cable.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f5gj56bqvk0 ... IINOa?dl=0
Sounds good prefer the first one. I feel there is more anticipation.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-11-17 12:02

I agree with anthony about the first (L1). Especially the cough at 1.14 was a real treat to my ears! It was as if the person was in the room. :-)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-11-17 14:42

Thanks chaps. Your feedback’s really helpful, but now I’ve got a bit of a dilemma. Listening live, L1 had a very valve like quality. The sound was open and unconstrained with a lot of finesse. As the cable was shortened (in 200mm increments) the sound gradually became more constrained with less finesse whilst at the same time there appeared to be an increase in control which helped to improve pitch accuracy and musicality.

Tbh, I didn’t think anyone would notice the change from unconstrained to more constrained on the videos, so well done for that! It’s also interesting that the change in musicality was not very noticeable. This makes me question 1. Was I biased towards hearing something which wasn’t really there (it wouldn’t be the first time!) 2. L1 was about 12.0m to 12.5m long and L2 Was 1.2m shorter. Is there a length over ~ 11m where the sound remains valve like, but the musicality returns? 3. Something else?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-11-17 17:09

Spannko wrote:
2019-11-17 00:27
Thanks Charlie1 and Tendaberry. I agree with you both that the new MK is best, followed by the older version of the same mcb.

This latest video is with the new MK and same length cable vs the new MK with a shortened mains cable.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f5gj56bqvk0 ... IINOa?dl=0
Prefer the first clip BUT you seem to be standing closer to the speakers in the second? Not good as it can affect the clips.

I would also find it easier to pick things apart if you play a song that starts at once with both bass and other instruments. I often find that helpful when there's pros and cons with both clips, as you indicate.

BTW I'm really looking forward to hearing more about the racks you're planning to release.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-11-17 18:32

Finally got all three main Kan 1 variants. The newly purchased black ash pair have had their grills removed for some reason - It doesn't look like any work was done to them, so I'm curious why they were removed in the first place.

Rosewood = Scanspeak d2008/8512 tweeter and Kef b110/sp1003
Teak = Hiquphon/Linn D20-LP-1 and Kef b110/sp1003
Ash = Hiquphon/Linn D20-LP-1 and Kef b110b/sp1057

I've had to record a single speaker in mono again cos one of the Teak speakers has soldered on K20. I've used mono LPs and it was single speaker in the room at any one time. Each variant had 4-5 mins warm up.

Track 1
Rosewood: https://www.dropbox.com/s/474tzk5cjc0mw ... D.MOV?dl=0
Teak: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fxvtz337exudu ... D.MOV?dl=0
Ash: https://www.dropbox.com/s/em5cmam7eiicx ... D.MOV?dl=0

Track 2
Rosewood: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rm4ho3yzx8tlm ... D.MOV?dl=0
Teak: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ki2njlu7fa5uk ... D.MOV?dl=0
Ash: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f75krjn3vbouw ... D.MOV?dl=0

Track 3
Rosewood: https://www.dropbox.com/s/47txe25w3m69p ... D.MOV?dl=0
Teak: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3580m7pltsbxm ... D.MOV?dl=0
Ash: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0hkjwjqcuwwm ... D.MOV?dl=0
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2019-11-20 00:03, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-11-17 21:11

Your Teak is my absolute favorite. It has the ability to make musical sense of it all to a degree where the others in my opinion cannot follow. I forget the different parts and just take it all in as music.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-11-17 22:01

Great set of videos (again!) charlie1. I enjoyed the rosewood version the most, particularly on the second (Mozart?) recording.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-11-17 23:47

Lovely clips Charlie!

I like both the Rosewood and the Teak. Difficult to pick one of them...

In what range are their serial numbers and which years were they made?

As you seem to have become a Kan aficionado, what do you think of the Kan II? And have you heard one with Ku-stone inside? I remember them coming very late, just before they were discontinued (serial numbers just below 50,000) and I was a bit disappointed with them. I remember their internal volume was unchanged, but the Ku-stone block was quite big, which in effect reduced the volume quite a bit. And as a result, their bottom end got messed up (in my opinion).

I owned two Kan II's, one teak and later one black pair. Had some nice late nights with friends in the company of those speakers. Although I often missed the deep bass, they always impressed musically.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-11-18 00:29

lejonklou wrote:
2019-11-17 23:47
In what range are their serial numbers and which years were they made?
Rosewood: 21,1XX (1983)
Teak: 24,5XX (1984)
Ash: 34,3XX (1986)
lejonklou wrote:
2019-11-17 23:47
what do you think of the Kan II? And have you heard one with Ku-stone inside? I remember them coming very late, just before they were discontinued (serial numbers just below 50,000) and I was a bit disappointed with them. I remember their internal volume was unchanged, but the Ku-stone block was quite big, which in effect reduced the volume quite a bit. And as a result, their bottom end got messed up (in my opinion).
I bought my first Kan IIs in 1989 (pre-Kustone in black ash). I loved them and should never have sold them around 2005 - they were mint too. The main reason for selling was cos I'd upgraded my LP12 with Cirkus and the sound became too thin. If I'd have upgraded my cartridge and amp first after the Cirkus then maybe I would have kept the Kans but I stupidly upgraded the whole lot.

Last year I bought another pair of black pre-kustone Kan IIs but one of them was making a slightly strange distorted sound (nothing too bad) so I decided to return them. I had the Teak pair of mk 1's at the time and the mk 2's sounded much more 'normal' in terms of balance but not as much fun.

The same seller later offered me some Kustone Kan IIs (circa 50,000 serial) at a good price (due to the issue with the previous pair) so I had those. They worked fine and had a similar 'normal' balance, but like you, I thought they were a bit boring for a Kan. I had Tukans by then and they were more fun and rhythmic, and sounded surprisingly similar in overall balance to me - which I didn't expect.

Based on listening to these Black Mk 1's today with the b110b driver unit, I'd be interested to compare late Mk 1's to early Mk 2's. My guess is that (single wired) they would sound pretty similar, at least in the context of how much the Kan sound changed during its lifetime, and I've not heard the really early ones, such as the Chartwell.
lejonklou wrote:
2019-11-17 23:47
I owned two Kan II's, one teak and later one black pair. Had some nice late nights with friends in the company of those speakers. Although I often missed the deep bass, they always impressed musically.
Sounds like happy days! They will always be a flawed diamond won't they. I couldn't live with them as my only speaker now. However, running two systems works well as I can get a more full range sound from the office setup, which I actually listen to a lot more. And when listening to the main system, I just have to be a bit selective regards what I play. But we'll see how things pan out over time - you know me :)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-11-18 00:57

Thank you!

You are a Kan aficionado, that's for sure.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-11-18 01:22

Thanks beck, Spannko and Fredrik for listening and sharing your thoughts.

I too prefer the Rosewood and Teak to the Ash, although I'd like to just live with the Ash ones for a day or two.

I find the Rosewood pair have more vitality and the Teak pair sound more fluid. I used to find the Teak pair more rhythmic, but I've used the Rosewood's a lot more lately and think they've loosened up a bit.

I've read that the Hiquphon/Linn tweeter is better integrated with the Kef b110 drive unit than the Scan-Speak tweeter, so (if true) then perhaps that explains why the Teak pair sound more flowing and 'as one' to me.

EDIT: One benefit of the ash is that it doesn't squeal at a specific frequency. I don't notice it very often (probably cos I don't listen to much classical) but violin can highlight this weakness on the earlier Kan versions.
lejonklou wrote:
2019-11-18 00:57
You are a Kan aficionado, that's for sure.
:)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by El Mero Mero » 2019-11-19 11:39

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-11-17 18:32
Finally got all three main Kan 1 variants. The newly purchased black ash pair have had their grills removed for some reason - It doesn't look like any work was done to them, so I'm curious why they were removed in the first place.

Rosewood = Scanspeak d2008/8512 tweeter and Kef b110/sp1003
Teak = Hiquphon/Linn D20-LP-1 and Kef b110/sp1003
Ash = Hiquphon/Linn D20-LP-1 and Kef b110b/sp1057
Lovely collection of Kans! I still have a pair of Kan 1 in black ash snr 21507 on what I believe is Audio Technica wall mounts. They used to be driven by a Naim Nait 1, chrome bumper, red diode voiced by Julian Vereker.

Where have you found such detailed information of the loudspeaker units?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-11-19 11:58

El Mero Mero wrote:
2019-11-19 11:39
Where have you found such detailed information of the loudspeaker units?
Just on forum threads, such as Pink Fish Media, plus there is the serial number page that's been knocking around for years. Here's one site but I think there are a few:
http://www.hoth.uk/Linn-kit.htm#kan
El Mero Mero wrote:
2019-11-19 11:39
Lovely collection of Kans! I still have a pair of Kan 1 in black ash snr 21507 on what I believe is Audio Technica wall mounts. They used to be driven by a Naim Nait 1, chrome bumper, red diode voiced by Julian Vereker.
Thanks!

I've read good things about the Sound Organisation wall brackets but never managed to get hold of a pair.

Kans sound quite good with a Nait but a bit 'thin' to me. Perhaps your room makes up for it. So are they sat doing nothing at the moment? The Creek 4140 is probably a better match if you just want a cheap integrated to get them going again.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by El Mero Mero » 2019-11-19 12:10

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-11-19 11:58
El Mero Mero wrote:
2019-11-19 11:39
Where have you found such detailed information of the loudspeaker units?
Just on forum threads, such as Pink Fish Media, plus there is the serial number page that's been knocking around for years. Here's one site but I think there are a few:
http://www.hoth.uk/Linn-kit.htm#kan
El Mero Mero wrote:
2019-11-19 11:39
Lovely collection of Kans! I still have a pair of Kan 1 in black ash snr 21507 on what I believe is Audio Technica wall mounts. They used to be driven by a Naim Nait 1, chrome bumper, red diode voiced by Julian Vereker.
Thanks!

I've read good things about the Sound Organisation wall brackets but never managed to get hold of a pair.

Kans sound good with a Nait but a bit 'thin' to me. Perhaps your room makes up for it. So are they sat doing nothing at the moment? The Creek 4140 is probably a better match if you just want a cheap integrated to get them going again.
Thank you for the link!

The wall brackets seems quite rare. I like them a lot. Also had Kan II stands but sold them. The speakers are in the children's living/play room and not in my main system. Currently they are used with a KRDS/1 LK100 and K20 speaker cable. Source first?? Will try to post a picture of the wall stands later.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-11-19 12:57

Yes, would be good to see them. I'm sure an LK100 drives them fine.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-11-19 21:01

Interesting grouping, Charlie1! Overall I have to go with the Rosewoods, although the Teak are pretty good too. The Black Ash don't do anything for me, I just can't get into them with any of the clips. I find the Teaks do somethings that are good but I find they get harsh when there is much high frequency energy. But choosing one, I like the Rosewoods as they seem to flow quite well and give a good quality to all the tracks.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-11-19 21:07

lejonklou wrote:
2019-11-17 17:09
Spannko wrote:
2019-11-17 00:27
Thanks Charlie1 and Tendaberry. I agree with you both that the new MK is best, followed by the older version of the same mcb.

This latest video is with the new MK and same length cable vs the new MK with a shortened mains cable.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f5gj56bqvk0 ... IINOa?dl=0
Prefer the first clip BUT you seem to be standing closer to the speakers in the second? Not good as it can affect the clips.

I would also find it easier to pick things apart if you play a song that starts at once with both bass and other instruments. I often find that helpful when there's pros and cons with both clips, as you indicate.

BTW I'm really looking forward to hearing more about the racks you're planning to release.
+1. Overall I prefer the L1 but there are things I like about L2 as well, even though it isn't as direct and lively. Could I have clip L1.25 please?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-11-19 23:18

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-11-19 21:07
lejonklou wrote:
2019-11-17 17:09
Spannko wrote:
2019-11-17 00:27
Thanks Charlie1 and Tendaberry. I agree with you both that the new MK is best, followed by the older version of the same mcb.

This latest video is with the new MK and same length cable vs the new MK with a shortened mains cable.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f5gj56bqvk0 ... IINOa?dl=0
Prefer the first clip BUT you seem to be standing closer to the speakers in the second? Not good as it can affect the clips.



I would also find it easier to pick things apart if you play a song that starts at once with both bass and other instruments. I often find that helpful when there's pros and cons with both clips, as you indicate.

BTW I'm really looking forward to hearing more about the racks you're planning to release.
+1. Overall I prefer the L1 but there are things I like about L2 as well, even though it isn't as direct and lively. Could I have clip L1.25 please?
Interesting, thank you for your feedback. When listening live, I liked the sound of L1 the most, but the guitar seemed to struggle with tunes. L2’s sound was a bit constricted, but seemed more tuneful. I calculated the length of L2 to be 11m and I was going to go along with the tune as being the most important but mismeasured and cut the cable too short! That was the last of my 6mm2 cable, which comes on 25m reels, so I’m going to take the opportunity of starting at 25m and working backwards to 11m. Hopefully there’ll be a point along the way which will have the freedom of L1 but with more musicality.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by El Mero Mero » 2019-11-20 11:03

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-11-19 12:57
Yes, would be good to see them. I'm sure an LK100 drives them fine.
Here you go!

ImageKAN by El Mero Mero, on Flickr

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-11-20 11:44

El Mero Mero wrote:
2019-11-20 11:03
Charlie1 wrote:
2019-11-19 12:57
Yes, would be good to see them. I'm sure an LK100 drives them fine.
Here you go!

Image
Looks fantastic!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-11-20 13:09

lejonklou wrote:
2019-11-20 11:44
Looks fantastic!
I hope your wife takes care of your interior design at home!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-11-20 14:08

Lookin' good - thanks for the pic.

They do get right up close to the wall don't they.

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