Playground for practical listening exercises

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Charlie1
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

lejonklou wrote:So what you might be looking for in this compensatory quest is NAC A4 or Linn K20.
That's a very good idea! :)

I've only got one run of K20 though, cos the other is soldered to a Kan.

This is the mono recording. I probably need to try some more tracks myself, with bass, to know where I stand, but I do like what I hear so far...

K400 (2.5m): https://www.dropbox.com/s/7eafyxgt5eug2 ... 4.MOV?dl=0
NAC A5 (3m): https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xzmk0m3pq31h ... 5.MOV?dl=0
K20 (5m): https://www.dropbox.com/s/ybv946btus6hi ... 6.MOV?dl=0
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko »

lejonklou wrote:I don't think anyone can claim that Nait 1 and NAC A5 were made for each other.

Naim NAC A4: 1981
Linn K20: ? (copy of NAC A4)
Naim Nait: 1983
Naim Nait 2: 1988
Naim NAC A5: 1989

So what you might be looking for in this compensatory quest is NAC A4 or Linn K20.
Well remembered! I think there’s a good chance that NAC A4 will be better. I seem to remember not liking the A5.

Edit: Charlie1’s a fast mover! The A5 doesn’t seem to work well at all, fortunately both of the Linns seem much more musical and if the K20 sorts out the tonal problems - job done!

Edit 2: Is it the K20 that works well or the extra cable length, as suggested by ML. What would 5m of K400/2 be like? Hmmmm .....
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

Spannko wrote:Edit 2: Is it the K20 that works well or the extra cable length, as suggested by ML. What would 5m of K400/2 be like? Hmmmm .....
Are you trying to make my life complicated? ;)

Seriously, I had wondered the same. However, I think I'll just get 2 runs of K20.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit »

Ahh, but what lengths of K20? ;)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko »

The K20 wasn’t an exact copy of A4. They were both a “dumbbell” design with 4mm2/56 strand conductor, but the Linn had a soft PVC insulation and the Naim used a quite stiff (pvc?) insulator, producing a slightly different sound. From what I can remember, the naim had a tighter bottom end (and sound generally) but the Linn was more tuneful.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

tokenbrit wrote:Ahh, but what lengths of K20? ;)
I reckon 5m cos that will also enable me to relocate the system off to one side. I'd like to see what improvement moving the system brings.
Spannko wrote:The K20 wasn’t an exact copy of A4. They were both a “dumbbell” design with 4mm2/56 strand conductor, but the Linn had a soft PVC insulation and the Naim used a quite stiff (pvc?) insulator, producing a slightly different sound. From what I can remember, the naim had a tighter bottom end (and sound generally) but the Linn was more tuneful.
Thanks for the info. I'll stick with K20 :)

Feels good listening to some of my mono recordings with one speaker ;)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5c1xi8fyuxl7z ... 2.MOV?dl=0
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit »

I was going to suggest 5m... :) K20 has similar specs to the Naim cable, which would suggest that ~3.5m is the minimum length advised for your amp, but 5m is the commonly recommended 'best' length on the green forum. The 5m of K20 certainly sounded better than the 3m of A5 in your clips - good if it let's you try different system placement too.
And you can always get it cut down later if needed.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK »

Tendaberry wrote:The sloppy timing of the NACA 5 ruins it for me, especially on the EC track. I for one couldn't live with that.
Agreed! I was so happy to hear the K400 as with the NACA5 I wondered how Charlie1 had found records that killed the perfromance so badly. I listened to the K400 clip of the second set till the end and wanted more, the NACA5 left me bored.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK »

The K20 is certainly more musical than the NACA5. But then how could it not be - the NACA5 sounds wrong on the first note of some of these clips. However, I still find the K400 more enjoyable and tuneful of the three. I am betraying my age but "I Saw Her Standing There" had me wanting to get up and twist with the K400, not so much with the K20 and not at all with NACA5.

I don't think you can necessarily equate 5m of K20 with 5m of K400. Since K400 is a twisted pair construction it will have different electrical characteristics than the spaced conductor K20, NACA4 and 5. So who knows what length split K400 would ideally load the Nait. But considering my preference for K400, if it were me I'd try to hear some longer pieces.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

ThomasOK wrote:I don't think you can necessarily equate 5m of K20 with 5m of K400. Since K400 is a twisted pair construction it will have different electrical characteristics than the spaced conductor K20, NACA4 and 5. So who knows what length split K400 would ideally load the Nait. But considering my preference for K400, if it were me I'd try to hear some longer pieces.
That's a good point. I won't back the K20 horse entirely until I can compare the two at 5m. I wouldn't argue that the 2.5m K400 is more tuneful, but for some reason, in the room it doesn't sound quite right on some material.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry »

ThomasOK wrote:The K20 is certainly more musical than the NACA5. But then how could it not be - the NACA5 sounds wrong on the first note of some of these clips. However, I still find the K400 more enjoyable and tuneful of the three. I am betraying my age but "I Saw Her Standing There" had me wanting to get up and twist with the K400, not so much with the K20 and not at all with NACA5.
My feelings exactly.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

Your hard work Charlie1 to get your system to meet your expectations is a gift to this forum. It makes this place come alive so it will almost be tragic if you finally have found what you are looking for! :-)

It is a plessure to get to hear music from your collection. Thank you for sharing!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Music Lover »

Spannko wrote: This is a bit surprising because like ML I’d expect the Nait to work better with the Naim cable since the cable was always intended to be a part of the amplifiers circuit.
For the record, that wasn't what I wrote.
The NACA is too short. Should be 7-8m.
I once used 10m K20 after a Nait mkII, sweet
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

beck wrote:Your hard work Charlie1 to get your system to meet your expectations is a gift to this forum. It makes this place come alive so it will almost be tragic if you finally have found what you are looking for! :-)

It is a plessure to get to hear music from your collection. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks beck - very kind of you to mention.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko »

beck wrote:Your hard work Charlie1 to get your system to meet your expectations is a gift to this forum. It makes this place come alive so it will almost be tragic if you finally have found what you are looking for! :-)

It is a plessure to get to hear music from your collection. Thank you for sharing!
Agreed! It’s been a very interesting journey. Long may it continue!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou »

Music Lover wrote:
Spannko wrote: This is a bit surprising because like ML I’d expect the Nait to work better with the Naim cable since the cable was always intended to be a part of the amplifiers circuit.
For the record, that wasn't what I wrote.
The NACA is too short. Should be 7-8m.
I once used 10m K20 after a Nait mkII, sweet
Did you listen to the clips, ML? What is your opinion?

I kind of doubt the 7-8 m figure. Was it NAC A4 or A5?

I had a 10 m pair of K20 and it is really much too long in my opinion. The sound gets a strong emphasis on decay and the attack is minimal. 5 m was clearly better, but less than that, I'm not sure. My 1 m pair was not very good at all, and it wasn't in any way dependent on the amplifier used (Creek, Nait, Linn, Rotel and a few others). For some reason, I didn't fully trust my impressions at the time and continued to think "the shorter the better". So I didn't investigate the matter any further until many years later.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

I love this cable (!), even playing stereo recordings through one speaker. It carries the tune but, also, the instruments don't fight one another for my attention, sitting more in harmony together, which is something I seem ultra sensitive to.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK »

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

Lovely clips Thomas.

Second clip is my favorite with a full and open sound.

First clip has a soft squeeze on the musical intervals and the third (last) clip sounds slightly weird to me.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Matteo »

Charlie1 wrote:I love this cable (!), even playing stereo recordings through one speaker. It carries the tune but, also, the instruments don't fight one another for my attention, sitting more in harmony together, which is something I seem ultra sensitive to.
Are the K20 directional?

M
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

I prefer clip 2 as well.

I don't really find clip 3 particularly wierd though, just different somehow.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 »

Matteo wrote:Are the K20 directional?
Yep, it has faint wording on it indicating the direction.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko »

Charlie1 wrote:
Matteo wrote:Are the K20 directional?
Yep, it has faint wording on it indicating the direction.
The direction is indicated by the Linn logo which is rotated by 90 degrees and then makes a sort of an arrow. From memory, this could be against the text, but I’m not really sure - it’s been a long time!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit »

beck wrote:Lovely clips Thomas.

Second clip is my favorite with a full and open sound.

First clip has a soft squeeze on the musical intervals and the third (last) clip sounds slightly weird to me.
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