Playground for practical listening exercices

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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einj
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by einj » 2017-11-13 17:08

Thanks for the recommendations!

I'm currently not actively looking to purchase anything, but that might change in little time. Lejonklou is definitely one of the brands that I would like to hear, but due to geography, that's a bit hard at the moment. And I have dealt with Fredrik before and his services are top notch!

I think another aspect that might be worth considering is the changing buying habits of us youngsters. Being in my mid twenties and having owned hifi for just a few years, I guess I'm part of the newer generation. And when I probably never would purchase equipment based on how it sound in a video, I definitely have found the brands I could consider buying by listening to recordings of systems playing.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2017-11-13 17:56

Welcome einj!

A youngster into HiFi! There is still hope for the world :)

Do any of your friends share your enthusiasm for better music reproduction?

You can always share details of your system under 'Me and My System' section.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by einj » 2017-11-13 22:29

Thanks Charlie!

Actually I think that there will always be some people who get HiFi and the ones that just don't care too much about it, regardless of age. You can see a lot from how they react when you play a few songs and that usually tells if it's a hit or a miss.

But to answer your question, I do have quite a lot of friends that are into it. Some are interested and maybe four or five have a system that could be labeled as serious HiFi. Genelec is strong here in Finland, but a few of them seem to prefer the concept of musicality. Just a few days ago I gave a friend Linnofils recommended Skullcandy Jibs and he has enjoyed them "a heck of a lot", even though he has a pair of in-ears that are more than 10x the price.

So i'd say too that there is still hope. :) Thanks for the tip, I'll try to write up something!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by maffe » 2017-12-01 19:38

Desided to get a new adikt stylus today and of course I made a "before and after" clip to share :)
Old one have done 1500h+ new one 4 minutes :P

Old
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-p2B ... K-1280.mp4
New
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hbx ... 7-1280.mp4

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2017-12-01 22:01

Thanks Maffe. First time I've ever heard a comparison like that. It's a very clear illustration of the differences.

You're keen - Xmas tree up already!

I don't recognise the artist - who is it?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2017-12-05 20:47

Quite a difference. Should be even better with 50 to 100 hours on it. Nice Christmas treat of a new stylus.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by largo » 2017-12-14 10:56

Hey guys, can you elaborate a bit on the differences you are hearing? My feeling is that the second one has definitely less "noise" it sounds a bit clearer. But I wonder if I am hearing what I want to hear, as I know what is "old" and what is "new".

What I can tell you for sure is that the second one has less sneezing. :)

Also I think/believe/feel that I can hear most differences when the track truly begins to move, at the end of the video.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2017-12-14 23:21

Hi largo,
I just find the new cartridge easier to follow the melody and it has more vitality. The old cartridge sounds a bit subdued in comparison.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by maffe » 2017-12-17 17:08

Sometimes it just happens that I forgot that I have a record and buy it again :P
This time it was Iron Maiden - Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son, UK first press DMM and the other Canadian press from 1988 not DMM

Made a clip of course ;)

Laquer
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fhd ... 4-1280.mp4
DMM
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2cv ... x-1280.mp4

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by largo » 2017-12-17 22:20

I believe in listening without knowing what I am listening to. As soon as somebody tells me what is new/old, or cheap/expensive I feel extremely biased and tend to hear what I want to hear.

I also tried to make recordings for you guys, but I don't feel like I succeeded. But I will let you be the judge of that.

Here are 3 recordings of my setup. ADSM/1 with a Tundra 2.2, a A2200/D and a KCT/D plugged into Ninkas.

Have fun and tell me what you feel you like most, if you can.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jyv5aqbou3rmblt/xb.MOV
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ttqpes45749hl7h/yb.MOV
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gerzh3twsvf79pg/zb.MOV

While I can hear a difference in my living room, I can not tell the recordings apart.

Maybe you can? If you can I'd love if you could elaborate.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2017-12-17 23:28

The differences are subtle when listening to clips like this. Sometimes I just can't get my ear in at all and so I leave it and try again another time.

My guess is that these are in the order you stated them, so Tundra (xb), A2200 (yb), KCT (zb).

I couldn't really hear which was most tuneful listening to the opening few seconds. I did think that moving to yb from xb enabled my mind to better encapsulate all the instruments at once. I think the Linn amps do this really well. However, playing from the half way line onward, I felt that xb was quite a bit more tuneful, more engaging, and made better musical sense. yb and zb seemed closer in terms of tunefulness, but I'd put zb ahead. Lastly, I liked the top end clarity of zb.

Now fingers crossed they were in the order you listed them :)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2017-12-17 23:37

maffe wrote:Sometimes it just happens that I forgot that I have a record and buy it again :P
This time it was Iron Maiden - Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son, UK first press DMM and the other Canadian press from 1988 not DMM

Made a clip of course ;)

Laquer
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fhd ... 4-1280.mp4
DMM
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2cv ... x-1280.mp4
Thanks for sharing :)

Are they the same volume? The DMM seems louder. It also sounds more impressive and seems to have more dynamic range. These things really suit that song. However, I find the DMM slightly annoying for some reason and just didn't get much out of it. I'm not an Iron Maiden fan so probably would need the laquer version to get into it. Which one do you like best?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by largo » 2017-12-18 00:10

Charlie1 wrote:
My guess is that these are in the order you stated them, so Tundra (xb), A2200 (yb), KCT (zb).
Hey Charlie, thanks very much for your insights! I appreciate it!

I would like to keep this under the blanket for a while and see if anyone else dares to chip in. But I am going to send you the solution via PN.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2017-12-18 00:25

Hi Largo.

I would choose to relax into the music from clip x. I find x to make the music more believeble.

I do not hear your clips quite the same way Charlie1 does. I find x and z related soundwise being quite good at bringing it all together into “one” sound making it create a harmonic musical presentation.
I find y seperates the sounds more making everything more “obvious” but less musically enjoyable to me. Maybe the amp is too revealing! :-)

My guess: x is KCT, y is Tundra and z is 2200.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by largo » 2017-12-18 00:32

Thanks for chipping in beck - I just sent you the solution.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2017-12-18 00:35

Charlie1 wrote:
maffe wrote:Sometimes it just happens that I forgot that I have a record and buy it again :P
This time it was Iron Maiden - Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son, UK first press DMM and the other Canadian press from 1988 not DMM

Made a clip of course ;)

Laquer
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fhd ... 4-1280.mp4
DMM
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2cv ... x-1280.mp4
Thanks for sharing :)

Are they the same volume? The DMM seems louder. It also sounds more impressive and seems to have more dynamic range. These things really suit that song. However, I find the DMM slightly annoying for some reason and just didn't get much out of it. I'm not an Iron Maiden fan so probably would need the laquer version to get into it. Which one do you like best?
I agree with Charlie1 about the DMM recording.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit » 2017-12-18 13:45

I find z easiest to listen to, then x, then y

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2017-12-18 14:09

I find this song really hard to compare with. At first I thought there was a glitch in the recording, or my phone, but it seems it should sound that way. Then when it goes on, it's unclear how the timing or interplay should be. Sorry!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2017-12-18 21:27

beck wrote:
Charlie1 wrote:
maffe wrote:Sometimes it just happens that I forgot that I have a record and buy it again :P
This time it was Iron Maiden - Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son, UK first press DMM and the other Canadian press from 1988 not DMM

Made a clip of course ;)

Laquer
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fhd ... 4-1280.mp4
DMM
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2cv ... x-1280.mp4
Thanks for sharing :)

Are they the same volume? The DMM seems louder. It also sounds more impressive and seems to have more dynamic range. These things really suit that song. However, I find the DMM slightly annoying for some reason and just didn't get much out of it. I'm not an Iron Maiden fan so probably would need the laquer version to get into it. Which one do you like best?
I agree with Charlie1 about the DMM recording.
Me too. There's definitely something annoying about that DMM clip. I can almost hear the metal resonating violently when they cut it, as opposed to the gentle mould of the other clip.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by maffe » 2017-12-19 07:18

lejonklou wrote: Me too. There's definitely something annoying about that DMM clip. I can almost hear the metal resonating violently when they cut it, as opposed to the gentle mould of the other clip.
Recorded at same volume setting on preamp, so output from record must differ.
Guitars and upper frequencies was easier to follow on the DMM but more harsh sound, over all the Laquer have a more friendly feeling/easier to listen to.
I keep the DMM ( UK first press) and gave the lacquer version to my cousin, his a Maiden fan.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2017-12-20 00:02

Iron Maiden definitely sounds louder on the DMM, probably cut at a bit higher velocity. I definitely found the metal master somewhat hard and etched sounding, kind of a digital type of sound. The lacquer cutting was more musical with better flow and when the vocals came in they were more intelligible and nuanced. Defintiely prefer the lacquer cutting.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by paolo » 2017-12-23 10:58

largo wrote:I believe in listening without knowing what I am listening to. As soon as somebody tells me what is new/old, or cheap/expensive I feel extremely biased and tend to hear what I want to hear.

I also tried to make recordings for you guys, but I don't feel like I succeeded. But I will let you be the judge of that.

Here are 3 recordings of my setup. ADSM/1 with a Tundra 2.2, a A2200/D and a KCT/D plugged into Ninkas.

Have fun and tell me what you feel you like most, if you can.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jyv5aqbou3rmblt/xb.MOV
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ttqpes45749hl7h/yb.MOV
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gerzh3twsvf79pg/zb.MOV

While I can hear a difference in my living room, I can not tell the recordings apart.

Maybe you can? If you can I'd love if you could elaborate.
My guess is that Twin is xb, 2200 is yb and Tundra is zb.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2017-12-23 11:27

I wouldn't mind another clip, if Largo has the time.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by largo » 2017-12-23 20:08

Hey Charlie,

I did try to record something with a proper microphone, but somehow that mic was not made to record music. I am still thinking about what would be a proper way to record music in a room - that delivers better quality than an iPhone.

Nevertheless - while I am thinking about that, I had to send back the KCT. I bought it, but as it did not fully convince me I sadly had to send it back.

So all I can do for now is comparisons between 2200 and Tundra.

Any good ideas on how to record music in a better quality?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2017-12-23 21:01

I think the recording quality was fine. Perhaps another track though.

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