Playground for practical listening exercises

[beck]

A very clear demonstration showing why we use the Sondek with lid off. With lid on I hear a disturbance of the natural relation between the notes and a less precise sound. Really enjoying your system through these clips! It is almost like being at your home for a visit. :-) Nice!

I think my little brother had this album on vinyl (mayby he still has).

[ThomasOK]

Yep, no question there. Lid off has more happening and less blur than lid on.

[beck]

Now here is a comparison I have been looking forward to present to you all. Tell me what you think:


Links removed.

[Charlie1]

Found 1358 more enjoyable. Also noticed the tapping about 6-7 secs made some sense to me, whereas it didn't on 1365.

Sounds great btw. I always think that song is very well recorded/produced.

[lejonklou]

I thought this might be a turn up for the books but I'm pretty sure you will all agree on what's best. In fact I think it's easier via the clips than it was in the room. There was something nice and comforting about 'lid on' listening in the room, but listening to the clips it just sounds boring. It's been reported that Ivor thinks lid on is better but I can't hear that in these clips.

TC1 lid off https://www.dropbox.com/s/ogxazi4vm2xpe ... f.MOV?dl=0
TC1 lid on https://www.dropbox.com/s/oloeiciq49pu6 ... n.MOV?dl=0
TC2 lid on https://www.dropbox.com/s/imrzcix0m21y8 ... n.MOV?dl=0
TC2 lid off https://www.dropbox.com/s/0d9od8t8g6fbe ... f.MOV?dl=0

I couldn't get the first track out of my head all day. I really like this album. A good recording too, for 80s digital.

I find Lid off better.

Lid on feels weighed down. The musicians all wear lead boots.

[lejonklou]

Now here is a comparison I have been looking forward to present to you all. Tell me what you think:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/696 ... G_1358.MOV

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/696 ... G_1365.MOV

I'm currently on iPhone only. How come your dropbox clips don't buffer while I'm listening? Charlie's do, but yours don't. So I get constant interrupts.

Only judging by the first two seconds (that's as far as can hear before it's interrupted), 1358 is much better.

[beck]

Sorry about the clips. I do think the higher quality clips show the differences much better but I have added the other ones to my post above.

Over the years I have tried on and off using single wire connection to my speakers (helix, espek) but has always ended with a result like the one you have been listening to.
Clip 1358 is my normal bi-wire setup and 1365 is single wire. I just flipped the connection cards on the back of my Espeks. Nothing else changed. My Espeks had been used as single wire speakers before I bought them.

So I will continue with bi-wire for now as the sound and flow of the music is better that way in my setup.

[lejonklou]

So it's the high quality clips that don't allow buffering on my phone? I don't really get how dropbox works.

Single wire versus biwire? Interesting! I used to biwire my Espeks too. But I have a few questions:

How do you connect your speaker cables to the speaker in each case? Which inputs do you use?

How long are the cables and which parts are they made of?

Do you have two single wire cables and remove one when single wiring? If so, have you checked the quality of each cable against the other three?

Or is it a biwire cable that is soldered together in the amp end, and when single wiring you let one pair lie unconnected in the speaker end?

[beck]

My system and the way it is set up is so far away from the recommended on this forum that even if we went into detail about it we could not draw any clear conclusions.

Let me refrase: 1358 is my unusual kind of bi-wire that you mentioned a while back was too "thick" sounding when you tried the different combinations in the 90's.
1365 is exactly the same with the one change that the connection card used on the back of my Espeks is "single wire".

The interesting thing is that we can hear differences and a clear preference.

[lejonklou]

How can it be "exactly the same"? Do you have one wire connected and one lying on the floor? Or still connected to the loudspeaker?

Comparing and not trying to draw any conclusions feels kind of pointless to me.

[beck]

Connected as when bi-wired but with single-wire card (nothing hanging around). My conclusion is that it is not better. Same conclusion as you and Charlie1.

Sorry if I am being unclear.

[Nature]

When the link boards are set to 'single wire passive' the unused pair of speaker cable will negatively impact the performance because they are still connected to your power amplifier.

Is your speaker cable soldered together in the amp end?

[beck]

Yes, soldered in the amp end. I have also made a recording only using one pair in the speaker end letting the other hang with similar result.

[Erik]

My system and the way it is set up is so far away from the recommended on this forum that even if we went into detail about it we could not draw any clear conclusions.

Interesting view, I think there should be nothing to hide.
How do You connect single wire on the speakers end?

[beck]

Look two "beck" post above. :-)

Just to mention some of the things that is not "optimised": using non knect speaker connectors, placing my amp on a heavy stone, using bi-wire in a non conventional configuration, home made stand and more.

Still, I get a very natural musical flow and a togetherness in the sound that is really to my liking. Not the best system or sound around but nodding my head to the music comes without any effort.

This is not in any way a critisism of the consensus on this forum. I recognise the work being done here and doing the things recommended here would most likely make my system even better.

[Erik]

Look two "beck" post above. :-)

Still unclear. Do you connect single wire to treble?

[beck]

I will post some pictures tomorrow.

[lejonklou]

Connected as when bi-wired but with single-wire card (nothing hanging around). My conclusion is that it is not better. Same conclusion as you and Charlie1.

Sorry if I am being unclear.

In that case, you are using multiple wires that are connected to each other in both ends (amplifier and speaker). That doesn't sound any good. Try proper single wiring instead.

[beck]

Considering buying 2.5 meters of Linn K600 speaker cable terminated in both ends all seperately. Would this do as a good cable to compare single, bi- and tri-wire?

[Charlie1]

I bought 2.48m of K200 (K400 cut in half) soldered by Fredrik which was well worth the investment. But I guess you are still wondering if bi-wired is even better. My guess is that the only 'fair' test would be for someone like Fredrik to supply both single and bi-wired options from the same K400 drum. He would also ensure the same solder and temperatures were used when terminating the connectors. And of course the connectors would all need to be identical and the cable lengths identical. It would be expensive too, but not sure how else you could be sure of a fair comparison. Please anyone correct me if wrong.

I have 2.4m of K200 you can borrow if you want to, but the 2.48m does sound better.

[beck]

I have 2.4m of K200 you can borrow if you want to, but the 2.48m does sound better.

Thank you for the offer Charlie1 but I am a long way from London? so maybe I should make a trip to Sweden instead! :-)

[lejonklou]

You posted something here, beck. Now it's gone. Why?

I couldn't listen as I was traveling.

[beck]

A small change to my shelf with my Linto and Lingo on it. Is it for the better?

Links removed

[Charlie1]

I think I prefer 'before', 1358.

[lejonklou]

I agree. Before has a flow in the rhythm that is lost in After.