Playground for practical listening exercises

[beck]

Apple earpods is the way to go. I have just listened to a lot of the older clips using earpods and it is now much easier for me to determin what is going on. Until now I have just listened to the speaker on my ipad!!!

I didn't listen to them in the order listed so I was at first surprised that the clip of the board with feet wasn't too bad. This is because I didn't like the board without feet at all. It was pretty dead sounding and really didn't get me into the music. There board with feet was much better but still not as good as no board. With the board and feet it was a bit more Hi-Fi and detailed sounding but I found that I couldn't tell what the various instruments were doing as well - they didn't seem to be playing together. For example when the sax came in it somewhat dominated and the other instruments became harder to follow. I think this is what beck would call sounding like a more complete musical piece - all the instruments playing together. They sounded the most that way to me without the board.

Agree!

[lejonklou]

Here's some clips with and without the Ikea chopping board that has been recommended by some Linn forum members. The middle clip includes home made feet under the board. I'm still toying with speaker positioning after upgrading to KK1 but I'm getting there. Haven't ruled out Sagatun Monos longer term but one step at a time.

No board: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lvxd5p1hm4xuf ... d.MOV?dl=0
Board with feet: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4tsv3y7on8qu ... t.MOV?dl=0
Board only: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsnpo4oepu46h ... y.MOV?dl=0

What is this chopping board thing? Never heard of it.

Apparently just as well, because I found the first clip to be OK, then on the second one the musicians in Van's band were all drunk. On the third it was just chaos. An awful degradation from the first clip.

[ThomasOK]

Here's some clips with and without the Ikea chopping board that has been recommended by some Linn forum members. The middle clip includes home made feet under the board. I'm still toying with speaker positioning after upgrading to KK1 but I'm getting there. Haven't ruled out Sagatun Monos longer term but one step at a time.

No board: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lvxd5p1hm4xuf ... d.MOV?dl=0
Board with feet: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4tsv3y7on8qu ... t.MOV?dl=0
Board only: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsnpo4oepu46h ... y.MOV?dl=0

What is this chopping board thing? Never heard of it.

Apparently just as well, because I found the first clip to be OK, then on the second one the musicians in Van's band were all drunk. On the third it was just chaos. An awful degradation from the first clip.

I guess that's another good way of saying it.

The chopping board (or cutting board over here) is a bamboo piece from Ikea. Some audiophiles are saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread to put under your components - maybe it's just the best thing for slicing your bread!

Although Quadraspire is making their own version on some of their racks.

[lejonklou]

Ok, so where did he place it? Below the LP12?

[ThomasOK]

Ok, so where did he place it? Below the LP12?

Nope, under the KK. You can see it in the video. Second clip on some homemade feet and in the third one directly on the IsoBlue shelf. KK sitting directly on top in both cases.

[beck]

Did I miss something? He used the board directly under the KK on top of the isoblue rack. The Sondek placed safely on the archidee.

[ThomasOK]

Did I miss something? He used the board directly under the KK on top of the isoblue rack. The Sondek placed safely on the archidee.

Nope, you didn't miss something - I did. Yes it was under the KK and not the LP12. They say loosing your memory is one of the first signs of advancing age...

Now I'll have to go and edit them all!

[beck]

To Charlie1: Are you using the trick where you move the counterbalance closer to the bearings of the Ekos and at the same time compensating for this by lowering the force from the spring dial?

To me it looks as if the counterweight is sitting very close to the bearings. Maybe I am wrong?

I do not get on with the mentioned trick as it to me on my Ekos gives the Sondek a slightly "out of tune" kind of sound.

[lejonklou]

To Charlie1: Are you using the trick where you move the counterbalance closer to the bearings of the Ekos and at the same time compensating for this by lowering the force from the spring dial?

To me it looks as if the counterweight is sitting very close to the bearings. Maybe I am wrong?

I do not get on with the mentioned trick as it to me on my Ekos gives the Sondek a slightly "out of tune" kind of sound.

Yes, that's another trick that doesn't work. Who's inventing all that nonsense?

I'm certain Charlie isn't using it.

[Charlie1]

Hi All. Beck, thanks for speaking out. Knowing me I could have easily done something daft although I have never heard of any 'other' way of setting it up. I only know the following:

I set everything to zero, adjust counterweight so that arm is balancing perpendicular to the platter, then dial in the 1.73g or whatever I think sounds best. Then set the anti-skate which is on about 1.95 at the moment cos it's the early release version that is about .2 out - hope that's right anyway.

No idea why photobucket has changed the orientation of the pic but don't have time to mess about with it any more.

[beck]

Looks right to me. The reason I asked is that on my Ekos1 the distance from bearing to counterweight is longer. It must be one of the areas where Linn has optimised the later versions of the Ekos.

[u252agz]

Here's some clips with and without the Ikea chopping board that has been recommended by some Linn forum members. The middle clip includes home made feet under the board. I'm still toying with speaker positioning after upgrading to KK1 but I'm getting there. Haven't ruled out Sagatun Monos longer term but one step at a time.

No board: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lvxd5p1hm4xuf ... d.MOV?dl=0
Board with feet: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4tsv3y7on8qu ... t.MOV?dl=0
Board only: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsnpo4oepu46h ... y.MOV?dl=0

What is this chopping board thing? Never heard of it.

Apparently just as well, because I found the first clip to be OK, then on the second one the musicians in Van's band were all drunk. On the third it was just chaos. An awful degradation from the first clip.

I thought this was being a bit unkind to the second clip - 'board with feet' , until I tried listening with apple headphones.

With these, the differences are much more marked, compared to the in built speaker.

Makes these comparisions even quicker.

[beck]

Yes, if we all use them we will agree even more on what is "hot" and what is "not"!

A big THANK YOU to ThomasOK for pointing his finger towards such a fantastic musician as Egberto Gismonti. I had never heard of him before.

The hunt for his records has started (I bet it is going to be difficult).

[beck]

To Charlie1: This is maybe too much to ask for but would it be possible for you to make clips with your Lejonklou preamp and the KK comparing them?

[Music at Home]

I thought this was being a bit unkind to the second clip - 'board with feet' , until I tried listening with apple headphones.

With these, the differences are much more marked, compared to the in built speaker.

Makes these comparisions even quicker.

When the thread started, I was using the crummy in-built speakers built into my laptop to the listen to the clips and could readily make out differences, even though they were quite slight. I then hit on the idea of plugging my headphones into the laptop and that would make the differences much more obvious. Except it didn't. For me it actually made the differences even harder to tell apart.

This seems reminiscent of the fact that I can get goosebumps listening to the radio in the car when I hear a familiar tune, or one I've not heard in ages, or even something I'm hearing for the first time. Worryingly, more frequently than when listening to the main hifi system.

I wonder if this is something to do with the hifi system being more 'full-range' and the mind constantly trying to align what it's hearing with what it expects from real-life and constantly being disappointed. Whereas when listening to a reproduction of sound that is obviously limited in it's capabilities, sub-conscious mental expectations are much lower and the mind can access the music with less distraction.

[Charlie1]

To Charlie1: This is maybe too much to ask for but would it be possible for you to make clips with your Lejonklou preamp and the KK comparing them?

I've retuned the speakers so don't really want to put the Kikkin back. What I can do is make a recording of the same music I took with the Kikkin and the rest of the system as it is now. The speakers are further away from the back wall now cos the KK1D bass digs quite a bit deeper so the video camera position might need to shift back a bit to compensate.

It's a very big difference, bigger than it used to be - when I owned a KK1D before it was prior to Urika/dedicated main spur/Dynamik for Radikal). But you won't get to appreciate much of it with these recordings - the KK will be more tuneful but I don't think it will really help you appreciate the performance gap.

[Charlie1]

This seems reminiscent of the fact that I can get goosebumps listening to the radio in the car when I hear a familiar tune, or one I've not heard in ages, or even something I'm hearing for the first time. Worryingly, more frequently than when listening to the main hifi system.

I wonder if this is something to do with the hifi system being more 'full-range' and the mind constantly trying to align what it's hearing with what it expects from real-life and constantly being disappointed. Whereas when listening to a reproduction of sound that is obviously limited in it's capabilities, sub-conscious mental expectations are much lower and the mind can access the music with less distraction.

You could be right there. I also think that being cocooned in a car whilst travelling at a reasonable speed has something to do with it. Sitting in traffic listening to music doesn't give me much of a thrill even if I'm quite happy waiting. Yet going at speed is entirely different. My car stereo is quite tuneless but with the right music it doesn't stop my really enjoying the experience.

[beck]

No doubt that we need to use what works the best for us when comparing clips.

With Apple devices it is a big help to use the EarPods

[beck]

To Charlie1: This is maybe too much to ask for but would it be possible for you to make clips with your Lejonklou preamp and the KK comparing them?

I've retuned the speakers so don't really want to put the Kikkin back. What I can do is make a recording of the same music I took with the Kikkin and the rest of the system as it is now. The speakers are further away from the back wall now cos the KK1D bass digs quite a bit deeper so the video camera position might need to shift back a bit to compensate.

It's a very big difference, bigger than it used to be - when I owned a KK1D before it was prior to Urika/dedicated main spur/Dynamik for Radikal). But you won't get to appreciate much of it with these recordings - the KK will be more tuneful but I don't think it will really help you appreciate the performance gap.

Yes, that is some of the changes these clips are not good at revealing! No need to make the extra clip.

[Charlie1]

Yes, that is some of the changes these clips are not good at revealing! No need to make the extra clip.

I've done it now! :)

Kikkin: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cmc058z1maoht ... e.MOV?dl=0
KK clip1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5sj0olfzys1l ... 1.MOV?dl=0
KK clip2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3498xybtr8miq ... 2.MOV?dl=0

I left the first KK clip in cos it's a better match to the Kikkin in terms of seating position. What I did notice is that (to me) KK clip 2 sounds better with the iphone positioned slightly further back. What do you guys think? There is also a tiny difference in volume between the two KK clips as I tried to match it to the Kikkin but it's so small that I don't think this is what's making the difference.

I would like to try the latest Sagaton Monos at home eventually but I need to wait for their second hand value to drop first.

[beck]

Well, for each time you post clips on here your system keeps getting better so do not stop!:-) At the moment I do not have any comments other than it does sound great (the last clip in particular). I will return if anything meaningful pops into my head.

Your system seems to be very sensitive to small things such as cables placement, what shelf you place the equipment on, placement of stands and so on. At the moment it to me sounds great so do not change anything! And I do mean anything!

[Charlie1]

At the moment it to me sounds great so do not change anything! And I do mean anything!

I won't touch a thing, I promise - even the silly putty. Seriously, I really enjoyed reading your positive feedback. Thanks again for the input from everyone, and also for Thomas who has so far resisting in saying 'I told you so!' or 'you muppet!' ref the Archidee :)

[u252agz]

Preferred the last clip kk clip2, then kk clip 1 , then kikkin.

Agree that all sound quite good and musical.

[ThomasOK]

To Charlie1: Are you using the trick where you move the counterbalance closer to the bearings of the Ekos and at the same time compensating for this by lowering the force from the spring dial?

To me it looks as if the counterweight is sitting very close to the bearings. Maybe I am wrong?

I do not get on with the mentioned trick as it to me on my Ekos gives the Sondek a slightly "out of tune" kind of sound.

Yes, that's another trick that doesn't work. Who's inventing all that nonsense?

I'm certain Charlie isn't using it.

There is an interesting variant on this. On the Rega 300 series and above my understanding is that the arms are not really dynamically balanced. Instead of the spring pulling down it actually pulls up. So it is the strongest when set at zero and the pull reduces as you go towards three. Because of this some on the web recommend setting the tracking force to 3, where the pull of the spring is the least, and then setting the desired weight with the counterweight. A few years ago a customer asked me about that. I commented that it sounded like it might work so why don't we try it and find out? So I readjusted his Planar 3 with this new technique making sure I had the tracking force set the same. Surprise, surprise - we both immediately heard that it was musically significantly worse. So I returned it to the normal method of setup and all was well again. Another supposedly good tweak bit the dust!

[u252agz]

I thought this was being a bit unkind to the second clip - 'board with feet' , until I tried listening with apple headphones.

With these, the differences are much more marked, compared to the in built speaker.

Makes these comparisions even quicker.

When the thread started, I was using the crummy in-built speakers built into my laptop to the listen to the clips and could readily make out differences, even though they were quite slight. I then hit on the idea of plugging my headphones into the laptop and that would make the differences much more obvious. Except it didn't. For me it actually made the differences even harder to tell apart.

This seems reminiscent of the fact that I can get goosebumps listening to the radio in the car when I hear a familiar tune, or one I've not heard in ages, or even something I'm hearing for the first time. Worryingly, more frequently than when listening to the main hifi system.

I also really enjoy listening to the radio with good music playing, or i pod devices with head phones - but no comparision to a good hi Fi system. The others can be quite musical but the main system is in a different league - so much more music, more emotion and engagement and often intoxicating. Never get those emotions with radio - just enjoyable.

I agree however that radio can be much better than hi Fi systems that have sacrificed musicality for nice and impressive sounds.