JBL 3677

[christian]

One thing I like to mention about these speakers is the fact that they have made Classical music a whole new thing to me. I have never before fully enjoyed classical music through a hifi system. I think I know why now and that is because the JBL 3677 can sound so delicate and precise so when hearing a solo violin you get all that natural timbre and emotions that it brings out. But at the same when that 70 piece orchestra puts out all its power you get that too with all the dynamics intact, full screen! I have never heard this before except from live performances.

[mrco99]

I still quite like my Klangedangs, but must admit my curiosity grows ...

:-)

Marco

[lejonklou]

I still quite like my Klangedangs, but must admit my curiosity grows ...

Klångedang T1 is the best moderately sized loudspeaker I have heard.

JBL 3677 is the best big loudspeaker I have heard.

[lejonklou]

Do you think one of these speakers could be used successfully as a top (playing down to something like 90Hz) in a Disco system stack together with a pair of horn loaded 18" bass bins driven to max, or are they too delicate for powerful PA?

I don't know about disco levels, but Jajo plays very loud in his cinema with no problems.

One has to realize, though, that "very loud" varies enormously with the size of the room, how much energy is reflected back and one's personal perception of what very loud means.

The standard passive filter in 3677 includes protection of the high frequency driver. This lowers the level of high frequencies when playing loud and might be the reason why I have never had any tinnitus after having listened to them for hours on high volume.

We are now experimenting with the removal of this protection, because most likely it's not necessary in a home environment. And I suspect the sound will get even better without it. Report will follow!

[christian]

Klångedang T1 is the best moderately sized loudspeaker I have heard.
JBL 3677 is the best big loudspeaker I have heard.

I agree with this.

[christian]

Do you think one of these speakers could be used successfully as a top (playing down to something like 90Hz) in a Disco system stack together with a pair of horn loaded 18" bass bins driven to max, or are they too delicate for powerful PA?

I remember Jajo telling me that at "Bergakungen" which is a Cinema in Gotenburg uses 3 JBL 3677 to drive front left/right/center. They combine this with one or two JBL 4645C depending of the size of the actual room. I think this can tell you something about the power that these babies can put out. (Jajo please correct if I am wrong)

[Flatcoat]

Years ago my system was LP12/Ekos/Troika with 5103 and Isobariks driven by six LK280/Sparks. Occasionally, I would listen to the system flat out which it was very capable of doing. After a session it would be a while before my hearing stopped ringing. A bit like most live concerts I have been to in the past !

The JBL's do sound interesting and I would love to try them, but they are so ugly in comparison to what I am using now.

Do you think one of these speakers could be used successfully as a top (playing down to something like 90Hz) in a Disco system stack together with a pair of horn loaded 18" bass bins driven to max, or are they too delicate for powerful PA?

The standard passive filter in 3677 includes protection of the high frequency driver. This lowers the level of high frequencies when playing loud and might be the reason why I have never had any tinnitus after having listened to them for hours on high volume.

We are now experimenting with the removal of this protection, because most likely it's not necessary in a home environment. And I suspect the sound will get even better without it. Report will follow!

[Music Lover]

3677 is designed for Pro theatre purpose.
What size do consider you for your disco?

With its 99dB rating, no Linn speaker going to be as loud.

[Efraim roots]

Thanks for your replies, I guess it's possible, today the crossover point is fixed to 120hz which make the job easier too. We usually have one stack as described (yes, in mono) and gather maybe 100-150people for a dance. I could defintetly go against the "power" trend for quality also, but incredible bass output is a part of it so they must keep up to a certain degree.

How about spare parts if something goes wrong while experimenting?

I will follow your progress with great interest and look into funding :-) I'm definitely into using them at home like you, just that it would be a big bonus to use them at "dances" aswell since i really have to do something about the top section of that system, it also solves problem with storage and maximizes funds.

[Music Lover]

How about spare parts if something goes wrong while experimenting?

Being a JBL Pro product, they provide spare parts to the the treble compressor. That is the one that take most beating.
The bass element is very expensive to replace, but it's rather unlikely you going to destroy it.

[Music Lover]

Short report on burn-in (playing 24/7)
The first 2 weeks was a rollercoaster with the musical performance going up/down, more than I have been used to before. Same with the sound&dynamics. Some days it was close to unbearable. Thin and hard treble with no bass...
Still from day one, it was clear that this speaker has a huge potential. Some days the 3677's were just magical!
After app. 2 weeks the variations began being less big with a clear direction towards increased performance.

Now after a month, they still have their up/downs but never down to a really bad level. Between good and extremely good. Always fun listening to music but some days wonderful :)
The treble performance seems quite stable now with a smooth and detailed delivery.
The bass elements however, are still very stiff and likely require a LOT more burn-in.

Based on Jajo's feedback, I expect them to get better and better during the next 3-4 months.


Stay Tuned :)

[matthias]

The standard passive filter in 3677 includes protection of the high frequency driver. This lowers the level of high frequencies when playing loud and might be the reason why I have never had any tinnitus after having listened to them for hours on high volume.
We are now experimenting with the removal of this protection, because most likely it's not necessary in a home environment. And I suspect the sound will get even better without it. Report will follow!

I am very curious about removal of this protection.
What do you think about applying a "series crossover" like Klangedang to the 3677?

Matt

[lejonklou]

The standard passive filter in 3677 includes protection of the high frequency driver. This lowers the level of high frequencies when playing loud and might be the reason why I have never had any tinnitus after having listened to them for hours on high volume.
We are now experimenting with the removal of this protection, because most likely it's not necessary in a home environment. And I suspect the sound will get even better without it. Report will follow!

I am very curious about removal of this protection.
What do you think about applying a "series crossover" like Klangedang to the 3677?

I think it would be VERY interesting, but I'm afraid of the time required to perfect it. So many combinations...

[ThomasOK]

The 3677 is only available from Cinema installers within the UK of which there is only a few. I called a couple of the larger ones and they don't even stock it so certainly wouldn't be able to dem them first. They are approx £1,100 a pair in the UK so not something I'd ever purchase without a dem.

I bought mine unheard, and it's one of the best decisions I have made when it comes to buying hi-fi equipment.

/Erik

Hello all, My absence from this thread is not at all because of a lack of interest but due to trying to get things worked out here. Like several others my interest was first piqued when the report was posted on the listening to Tundra Mono 2s on Jajo's 3677 setup. Just Fredrik's comments on the musicality was enough to make me wonder. But in some conversation with Fredrik shortly after that he wasn't yet ready to recommend them. However, I noticed a little while back Music Lover's change of location from in front of his Linn/Lejonklou system to in front of his Linn/Lejonklou/JBL system. This made me think more and I almost PMed him but I have been relatively busy lately and time slipped by. But then a couple weeks before this thread surfaced I received a text from Fredrik ordering me to sell my ATCs and buy a pair of the 3677s! This was followed by Erik texting me to tell me that I must get a pair. Then the thread hit with much more information. Now when I hear people whose ears I generally trust making a strong recommendation I start to investigate. When the recommendation comes from a bunch of them like Fredrik, Music Lover, Linnofil, Erik, etc. I have to get serious about it.

So this is the long way of saying that I have a pair on the way. I quoted the above because I obviously have not listened to them first either. As far as I know there really would be no way for me to hear these first and certainly not in any kind of situation where I could really evaluate them. Now I have said this before but I will repeat that I think Linn and Naim customers in the UK are a bit spoiled as they can hear the majority of what they are interested without too long a drive. In the US this is not the case. Overture Audio where I work is the only Linn dealer in Michigan, Indiana and Illinois, Tennessee, Kentucky, etc. There are no more than a dozen Linn dealers in the US doing a good bit of business with Linn and I would guess that less than half have the full run of Linn products on the floor - we don't as it is just too much money to tie up in products that don't sell frequently in this market. Of the Linn dealers in the US only a very few are also Naim dealers. Just like there is no Linn dealer in Chicago, there is no full Naim dealer in the Detroit area or even in Michigan. When you start looking at other companies a number of people use with Linn and Naim such as Kudos, PMC, ATC and Neat there are even fewer US dealers. I don't honestly know of one Linn dealer who carries Neat, Kudos or ATC although I haven't searched hard for them. So the common UK advice to listen first in your own home before buying is quite often not an option (although we do encourage home evaluation of the products we have on display and can sometimes get in a product we don't have on the floor for customer evaluation). As such a lot of the purchasing here has to be done on faith.

I have done quite a bit of this myself (although as a seller of these products I am in a different situation from a normal customer) as I personally purchased the first Radikal and Urika shipped to the US along with the first Akiva, first Keel and one of the first Ekos SEs, etc. They wouldn't let me buy the first Kandid because of the number of preorders but I did get the second one to come into the store. So, yeah, I am buying the 3677s sound unheard.

The timing of all this is going to be quite interesting as I have been thinking for a while of doing some speaker comparisons. What really lead me to this desire was how phenomenally good the Isobarik DMS sounded with the Tundra Monos. At least three people who have owned and installed Aktiv Isobarik systems in the past felt that the Isobariks passive with the Monos was as good or better than they had ever heard them including Ron the Mon who has been egging me on about this. Personally I felt there was a musical magic about the Mono/Isobarik combination that I hadn't heard before even though this was just a short demo in the store. Inevitably this brought up the question of how good the amps in my ATCs are. Like others I have a hard time believing they are as good as Tundra Monos but the system has sounded so good I didn't feel like messing with it. But the Isobarik/Monos combo brought the subject back up. The fact that I also have two pair of Isobariks in the basement in my home theater system means that I only need some strong backs and weak minds to get a pair upstairs to see what they would do in my finely tuned system in the living room.

Well, chez Tom will soon be a place ripe with speaker comparisons. Because before the thread started on the JBLs I had just managed to find a good deal on a pair of passive crossovers for the ATCs which are now in my possession! In the ATCs the three amplifiers, the active crossovers and the power supply are all on one monolithic board. This is attached to an aluminum panel, featuring two solid handles and heatsinks, that fits to the back of the speaker and is connected to the drivers by a heavy duty six pin plug. The passive crossover, which has the most massive caps and coils I have ever seen on a crossover, also attaches to the drivers with the same plug and is wired to the six binding posts on its aluminum panel. So I can literally pull the amp pack out and fit the passive crossovers in in the space of a few minutes to hear the difference between ATC active and Tundra Mono passive. Once that comparison is done I will already have the Monos set up in the system so it is a matter of hauling a pair of the Isobariks upstairs and hearing what they do. And then we will have the 3677s to compare as well once they are burned in and have the proper stands/mods done.

One thing I found interesting in the comments on the JBLs was the tendency not to play bass unless there was real bass there and then the bass is really good. This reminded me of when Fredrik was over to my house listening to the ATCs. At first he said he thought there wasn't enough bass and we might want to pull some stuffing out of it. But then I played some pieces with really potent bass and he decided the bass was just fine. Not having heard the JBLs I can't comment on their bass quality compared to the ATCs and from what I've read it is likely to be a whole different quality (heck, it even sounded good over the junk speakers in the store iMac) but that tendency to sound bass shy until there really is some bass is something I have always felt was a mark of a really good speaker.

So a lot of fun times with speakers over the next month or so. I will definitely let everybody know how it all comes out.

[Spannko]

Although the 3677's look a bit agricultural in their "pro" form, they could easily be remodelled along the lines of Dieter Rams iconic loudspeaker design:



I feel a project coming on!

[matthias]

Although the 3677's look a bit agricultural in their "pro" form, they could easily be remodelled along the lines of Dieter Ram's iconic loudspeaker design:



I feel a project coming on!

VERY nice!

Matt

[lejonklou]

Although the 3677's look a bit agricultural in their "pro" form, they could easily be remodelled along the lines of Dieter Ram's iconic loudspeaker design:



I feel a project coming on!

I just love that look!!

[ThomasOK]

Very cool looking. That type of design might look even better with the shallower cabinet. We have a guy nearby who is great at all kinds of natural and faux finishes. His company is the one that painted our store. I had already thought of talking to him about what he could come up with for the 3677s.

[Spannko]

Here's a quick drawing of the 3677 remodelled, keeping the drive units in their original positions.

[matthias]

Here's a quick drawing of the 3677 remodelled, keeping the drive units in their original positions.

Very good, but I love the original Rams stands and the curved edges of the speakers!

Matt

[Spannko]

Yes, I agree. The Rams stands are an integral part of the original overall design and putting a "modern" open cuboid stand in its place doesn't have the same appeal. AFAIA, no round edges on the speakers though.

I think the proportions of the original design are just perfect. Remodelling to keep the drive units in the same position spoils the proportions. Maybe someone will be brave enough to try the drive units in a different position, and hopefully it won't be detrimental to the sound.

I can't believe he designed them in 1958! They're still one of the best looking speakers I've ever seen - along with that other classic, the Gale GS401a.

[matthias]

I can't believe he designed them in 1958! They're still one of the best looking speakers I've ever seen.......

+1

Matt

[Stephan]

Hello!

I have followed this discussion closely. It would be very interesting trying to combine the 3677 and 4645C in to a common enclosure. I have made a simple outline combining the internal volume of both and placing the speaker elements close together.
Depth is 400mm (50mm less compared to Akubarik).
Combined gross volume approx.: 110+250= 360 litre
Front/back 25mm
Sides/top/bottom 19mm
Weight, approx: 110kg
I have added the Akubarik and 3677 for reference.
WAF will be zero but I think it would work in many ordinary livingrooms
This would be a really fun project!

[lejonklou]

I think the proportions of the original design are just perfect. Remodelling to keep the drive units in the same position spoils the proportions.

I was thinking just that when I saw the drawing.

[lejonklou]

It would be very interesting trying to combine the 3677 and 4645C in to a common enclosure.

Welcome Stephan!

Nice drawing!

Did you think about how it would be designed on the inside? If we assume that the bass unit of 3677 sounds best in the volume of its original enclosure, how will the dividing walls run?

Another important factor is the height of each drive unit above the floor. The bass unit of 3677 should ideally have its center around 60 cm above the floor with the current passive filter, enclosure volume and port loading. I don't know exactly which factors affect this parameter, but I'd like to find out. I suspect the low pass filter doesn't affect the optimal height, but volume and port might. I have played around with different speaker orientations and have found that the "main center" in relation to the room is usually the middle of the bass unit, at the dustcap or where the voice coil attaches to the diaphragm. The position of the port matters less, but has it's own optimal distance from the floor and walls.

So ideally, all drive units and ports should be possible to move around to "tune" their relation to each other and the room. Quite complicated.