JBL 3677

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by matthias » 2017-04-08 16:34

Maybe the stands have to be a little bit higher than these for the 3677s.
Regarding height of the stands IMO the post of cortina is most interesting:
cortina wrote:Regarding height but appearing off topic..
Anyway, Gaudí, the architect, was a true perfectionist working in an engineering way and realized he needed to study both music and acoustics as he was building a church. He then, almost 100 years ago, came to the conclusion that the balcony for the huge choir should be at 1/3 of the height of the "ceiling". Acc to the guide this has later been concluded to be a general acoustical "optimum".
So, not knowing if this is really a general rule,
it made me curious. Is the optimum speaker height not affected by the height of the ceiling? Naturally, this would create difficulties in terms of multiple stand versions, but would a 2,2 m ceiling have the same optimum stand height as e.g. a 2,7 m ceiling?
Or is the height of the tweeter (?) vs listening/ear position the only factor for a speaker?
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Music Lover » 2017-04-08 17:14

For speakers imho there are no depencencies regarding ceiling height or listening height.

A musical speaker is good regardless of room dimensions or where you listening.
It's all about musical understanding!

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by ThomasOK » 2017-04-08 22:35

I pulled this from another thread as it fits with this discussion:
tokenbrit wrote:Any sense that those on the fence about buying a pair of 3677s should plan to pull the trigger sooner rather than later, in case Samsung change things? Presumably distributor / dealer stock of 3677s would still be 'made by JBL' for a while yet.
I don't know if this is new unit designed as a replacement for the 3677 but it seems possible. 15" paper woofer, dual front ports, horn loaded tweeter, 35-18kHz, 100dB efficiency, 12" cabinet depth, connectors on the edge, designed for small theaters at a low price - all specs are quite close to the 3677.

But both drivers are different and the inverted layout is likely to cause problems for our usage. Flipping it over might be possible but would put the ports closer to the floor and might change treble dispersion unfavorably. I have my doubts. Plus there is some mention of some type of dual array in some of the lit but not others. Looks like more research is necessary.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by matthias » 2017-04-08 23:08

Yes,
I may add the C211 has a higher crossover frequency (1,8 vs. 1,2kHz) and a much bigger horn for the CD, it is actually bigger than the diameter of the woofer!
But the lines of the C211 are looking clean, IMO it is a nice speaker, so I am looking forward to a comparison.

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by sunbeamgls » 2017-04-20 19:12

I wonder why they say this about this new speaker?

"Advanced passive crossover network combined with leading edge DSP in the
amplifier produce highly accurate playback and response"

Is there a particular amplifier they're referring to? A particular DSP profile they'll recommend? Do they have some kind of software for measuring cinema rooms and making DSP recommendations? Is this their view on how to make it better or is there a dependency of some sort on DSP? If manufacturers are going to start making speakers with DSP dependencies, that's going to make life somewhat complex for those who like to mix and match systems.

An aside: in the April edition of HiFi+ there's a review of the JBL S3900 D
AEDSM; AEBox/1; 3x Tundra Stereo 2.5; PMC 20.26. Blogger. Exakt Design. SO measuring.

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by ThomasOK » 2017-05-03 23:19

Some of the confusion raised when I first read about the C211 has been cleared up but more has been created. One of the new features listed for the series was a Dual Dissimilar Array to give better coverage of a typical stepped theater. Since the C211 appears to have a single tweeter I couldn't figure it out. Yesterday I couldn't get the JBL Cinema 200 series pages to load but today they are up and it appears the C211 is the entry version of the series. The rest of the group do indeed have two tweeters in a strange looking two part single horn. They also have a fancy looking plastic grill/wave guide thing in front of the bass/mid drivers. The C211 has neither of these features and is much plainer and simpler looking. In addition the main photo at the top doesn't even have the C211 in it although the others are represented. If anyone wants to see all the info here is the link:

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cine ... QpSU1PyvLj

On the question about DSP, my belief is that they are designed to work together with Crown amplifiers which are also built by Harman (now Samsung) and are popular in pro circles. They are all now pretty much digital amps with tons of power and most feature built in DSP circuits that can be used for EQ and crossover duties in active systems. Indeed the M2 mentioned elsewhere needs to be bought with a set of these Crown amps as they provide the crossover and room EQ functions, unless you want to buy it with a DSP processor using the same technology and use your own amps.

As to how this effects the 3677 the answer is still uncertain but it looks more promising after my recent conversations. My contact for the JBL 3677 and 4645C asked the JBL rep if the C211 was to replace the 3677. The rep said that they had not heard anything to indicate that. However, since they still haven't been oficially released they didn't have pricing yet. The original announcement stated they would start shipping in May so we may have more info soon.

In the meantime I have two customers who want 3677s, one who ordered a set from me, and we were given the information that the 3677s are selling like hotcakes and JBL is currently out of them. The latest info is that they will start shipping again around the end of this month. Somehow I can't imagine we had that much to do with the jump in sales but who knows? It is certainly good that it is selling well as that makes it much less likely to be phased out. Interesting news and I'll keep you posted.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by sunbeamgls » 2017-05-04 14:23

^ Interesting info and update ThomasOK, thanks.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by matthias » 2017-05-27 15:02

Has someone tried to replace the damping material inside the 3677 with 100% natural wool felt?

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by crondani » 2017-05-31 21:59

Hi All
It seems from previous posts as if the sub of choice to be used with the 3677 is the 4645C. Is there a specific reason why the 4645C is the choice over the smaller brother 3635? I am considering changing over to the 3677 plus sub combo and is curious if the 3635 may be an alternative.

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by crondani » 2017-05-31 22:05

Sorry - only now noticed comments in 4645C thread.......

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by matthias » 2017-06-01 12:22

ThomasOK wrote: My contact for the JBL 3677 and 4645C asked the JBL rep if the C211 was to replace the 3677. The rep said that they had not heard anything to indicate that. However, since they still haven't been oficially released they didn't have pricing yet. The original announcement stated they would start shipping in May so we may have more info soon.

In Germany the C211 is 25% less expensive than the 3677.

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by cdy2179 » 2017-07-19 14:29

matthias wrote:Has someone tried to replace the damping material inside the 3677 with 100% natural wool felt?

Matt
Yes both times I've owned them I replaced the pathetically thin lining with r11 or r13. This is also what's used in the similar design mentioned above the 4pi. Having built many speakers I was baffled why JBL would use such thin lining. It made a noticeable change in that it smoothed vocals even more by reducing resonance.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by cdy2179 » 2017-07-19 14:36

crondani wrote:Hi All
It seems from previous posts as if the sub of choice to be used with the 3677 is the 4645C. Is there a specific reason why the 4645C is the choice over the smaller brother 3635? I am considering changing over to the 3677 plus sub combo and is curious if the 3635 may be an alternative.
For Home theater you would not want to use that sub. It's tuned way too high and of course ported subs fall like a rock at 24db per octave. There are many other better choices for Home theater.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=68&mset=73

For music it would be OK. On AVS many of us have been using Pro Cinema stuff (JBL and QSC) for years but we don't really mess with the subs as those who use the High sensitivity pro type stuff are geared towards Home theater.

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Music Lover » 2017-07-19 23:07

cdy2179 wrote:
crondani wrote:Hi All
It seems from previous posts as if the sub of choice to be used with the 3677 is the 4645C. Is there a specific reason why the 4645C is the choice over the smaller brother 3635? I am considering changing over to the 3677 plus sub combo and is curious if the 3635 may be an alternative.
For Home theater you would not want to use that sub. It's tuned way too high and of course ported subs fall like a rock at 24db per octave. There are many other better choices for Home theater.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=68&mset=73

For music it would be OK. On AVS many of us have been using Pro Cinema stuff (JBL and QSC) for years but we don't really mess with the subs as those who use the High sensitivity pro type stuff are geared towards Home theater.
Well...on the other hand Komri went lower, but the 4645C is used in pro movie theatres.
My favourite movie theatre in the town has 9 rooms with 4645C (and 3677), each with around 100 seats. The bigger rooms have two or three 4645's.
So surely 4645 is good enough for home theater.
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by matthias » 2017-07-19 23:20

cdy2179 wrote:
matthias wrote:Has someone tried to replace the damping material inside the 3677 with 100% natural wool felt?
Yes both times I've owned them I replaced the pathetically thin lining with r11 or r13.
What is r11 and r13?
Thx

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by cdy2179 » 2017-07-20 12:53

Music Lover wrote: Well...on the other hand Komri went lower, but the 4645C is used in pro movie theatres.
My favourite movie theatre in the town has 9 rooms with 4645C (and 3677), each with around 100 seats. The bigger rooms have two or three 4645's.
So surely 4645 is good enough for home theater.
Movie theaters are not concerned with producing low frequencies. The power and displacement needed to move that much air would be insane. It's hard enough in Home theaters. There's a ton of info under 20hz and these subs you mentioned don't even really extend to 25hz even with room gain, You'd be lucky to have an in room f3 of 30hz. The typical good Home theater sub will easily result in an f3 under 20hz with many of us having an f3 under 15hz . You'd be missing out on quite a bit of low end content and that's where the fun is at. Real theaters and home theaters are different animals. Here's a thread showing LFE of popular movies. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwo ... harts.html
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by cdy2179 » 2017-07-20 13:02

matthias wrote:
cdy2179 wrote:
matthias wrote:Has someone tried to replace the damping material inside the 3677 with 100% natural wool felt?
Yes both times I've owned them I replaced the pathetically thin lining with r11 or r13.
What is r11 and r13?
Thx

Matt
Hey Matt... it's insulation. It's what's used by most DIYers in the US. That and mineral wool are the most common materials we use. the thickness determines the frequency it will absorb based of 1/4 wave so any like material 3"-4" is fine for cabinet resonance. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Cornin ... /202585857

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by matthias » 2017-08-13 13:44

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by lejonklou » 2017-08-13 16:10

Nooo... *shock*

Didn't JBL read our praise?

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by matthias » 2017-08-13 17:17

Maybe the profit margin was too low.
I bought my pair last October, very happy with them:-)

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Masi » 2017-08-13 17:24

Hi there, Im also a huge fan of the 3677 and thanks to this thread I was pretty shure to buy a pair of the 3677.

Now what confudes me about the C211 is:
On the spec-sheet the Low-end Driver is listed with M115-8A.
This driver is not epensive - you got two of them in the JBL RX225 for about 330 Euro per piece (one loudspeaker). And it has a stamped steal Basket. On the other hand the Low-end Driver of the 3677 uses the JBL 2035HPL, and is around 300 Euros per piece - Dirver only!

Further I guess there is a fault in the JBL-Homepage in the new C200 Series. The other Speakers from this series the C221 and the C222 uses also the M115-8A (according to the spec-sheat). But the driver loks very different. The C221 and the C222 have a lot "rings" on the woofer, but the C211 has only 3 "rings". And in the spec-sheat of the C22HP the Low-end Driver is the 2275H (which looks exactly as the C221 and the C222 - but not as the C211).

I would love to buy the 3677 - maybe there will be a discount because its no longer in production?
From the dimensions, 3677 would be barely ok - but, the new C211 is far to big. On the otherhand the C221 is ok from the dimensions, but it has two HF-Horns, so I think in normal listening rooms like at home this is suboptimal.

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by lejonklou » 2017-08-14 00:46

Welcome to the forum Masi!

Thank you for the observations regarding the C211 specifications. Haven't heard them, but they sure won't be easier to fit into the living room...

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by Tendaberry » 2017-08-15 14:19

...Especially now that the treble is located at the bottom of the loudspeaker. They would of course need completely new stands. Crossover and frequency range are changed too, so you definitely need to audition before buying.

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Re: JBL 3677

Post by ThomasOK » 2017-08-15 23:46

I've been told that the 3677 is not discontinued and that the C200 series is a less expensive alternative, but I am starting to wonder. I have had a pair on order for a customer and they have been back ordered for months. I just called again today to check status as they were supposed to come off back-order on July 28th but I haven't heard back yet.

The C211s sell for $747.50 each here, so not very far below the $883 each 3677s. But JBL has a ton of SKUs so they may well keep both lines going. I was told by my rep that the 3677 was still popular and would be around for a while. Lets hope so. It might not be a bad idea to get some while the getting is good!
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Re: JBL 3677

Post by matthias » 2017-08-16 16:13

ThomasOK wrote:I've been told that the C211 is not discontinued........
Thomas, you mean the 3677?
Sadly I see no sign that it is not discontinued.
So the 3677 is no longer listed in the JBL 3000 series:

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cine ... ZReQNGbGhA

But I am sure they will get cult status like the Briks.

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