JBL 3677

[Charlie1]

Thanks ML. Do they offer similar bass to 212s then?

I used to have 212 and JBL 3677 produce much more in terms of quantity, deeper and more musical bass than 212. 212 is not even close.

Thanks Christian. My fear was that they only output similar bass quantity to a reasonable sized stand mount.

[lejonklou]

Thanks ML. Do they offer similar bass to 212s then?

Absolutely not.

Once you have heard 3677 I think you will understand not only how difficult it is to compare its bass to 212, but also how unimportant the question becomes.

Why? Because all normal loudspeakers produce Bass of a certain quantity and quality. You can instantly hear it and judge it, almost regardless of what song is being played. It's always there. I think this is due to distortion, causing "sameness".

3677 is very different in this respect. As Christian mentioned, with some records you think they don't have any bass. And then when playing something else, they suddenly have lots of it. Their character changes constantly. And more importantly: None of this matters. Because you're into the music. Connected to the recording. Deciphering the message.

I'm sure these speakers are not for everyone, but for me they are so far the closest to a live concert in your living room. And I think we'll be able to squeeze even more out of them.

[tokenbrit]

Presumably it's the same with respect to treble roll-off: that you're too busy being thrilled by the music to notice, or is this something where there are ideas to squeeze more [musical extension] out of them?
(either that or we're all old and can't hear above 12kHz any more ;)

[lejonklou]

Presumably it's the same with respect to treble roll-off: that you're too busy being thrilled by the music to notice, or is this something where there are ideas to squeeze more [musical extension] out of them?
(either that or we're all old and can't hear above 12kHz any more ;)

Yes, the treble rolloff is evident. But the top is also very expressive and informative! It doesn't seem to matter much in practice that it rolls off.

I guess that we just have to play with this by modifying the filter - or making a new filter from scratch. I think it's essential to do it by ear, using the Tune Method. And completely ignore whether the response is "flat" or not.

[Charlie1]

Thanks ML. Do they offer similar bass to 212s then?

Absolutely not.

Once you have heard 3677 I think you will understand not only how difficult it is to compare its bass to 212, but also how unimportant the question becomes.

Why? Because all normal loudspeakers produce Bass of a certain quantity and quality. You can instantly hear it and judge it, almost regardless of what song is being played. It's always there. I think this is due to distortion, causing "sameness".

3677 is very different in this respect. As Christian mentioned, with some records you think they don't have any bass. And then when playing something else, they suddenly have lots of it. Their character changes constantly. And more importantly: None of this matters. Because you're into the music. Connected to the recording. Deciphering the message.

I'm sure these speakers are not for everyone, but for me they are so far the closest to a live concert in your living room. And I think we'll be able to squeeze even more out of them.

OK, thanks Fredrik. I loved my Kan's and thought them wonderfully musical back in the day. However, I did eventually miss deeper bass on some music, mainly rock. I wouldn't want to go back to that situation that's all.

[Linnofil]

When Linnofil first came to my house he said something like “It is strange to see that 15 inch unit and hear a 5 inch unit playing” Next listening session the filers had been moved and we also tested the new stands he concluded “Now I can both see and hear a 15 inch unit”

I think this is the "problem" and why we are talking about the amount of bass at all. It certainly is what twisted my head in the beginning. The first impression when seeing this speaker in a normal living room is like when Marty McFly held a guitar and plectrum in great anticipation at Doc Browns house. As he says in this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-njcAia6nY Rock 'n' Roll... And then when you start playing you here the most delicate sound imaginable from a speaker. When properly setup they are light as a feather when needed but also true as a dog when a bass note comes along. It will not be a Metallica concert in your home, it will be something much better! Less distortion, more true meaning and greater communication from the system.

Once you have heard 3677 I think you will understand not only how difficult it is to compare its bass to 212, but also how unimportant the question becomes.

This is the answer, even if it is hard to believe at first. They just play music, great music. So much better than anything I have heard that once they are set up properly, any questions about anything but music is not relevant any more. It does not sound like any Linn speaker.

At first they do not impress that much. There is a longer than average burn in process that affect the sound and music quite a lot. But the main difference from "new out of the box" to properly set up is as Christian said, moving the filters outside and having really good stands. I would like to add that positioning them in the room correctly in all three dimensions and as also mentioned tourquing the drivers is very important. It transforms them from something with an interesting potential to a speaker with almost unbelievable precision and possessing some truly delightful musical ability. Even if I say this myself, the biggest improvement from stock was the stands.

I started making speaker stands over 25 years ago and have tested several different design ideas and now have a base design that I'm happy with. I'm now in the process of developing this base design and trying to perfect it for the 3677. So there is more to come from this speaker in almost all areas. Get on board, the doors are not closing, mind the gap to all other speakers...

[jajo]

Has someone compared the 3677 to its bigger brother, the 3678?

Matt

It is very hard to make a decent comparison of these speakers without first buying them, burning them in for a month and then comparing. So I am not going to say that I am 100% certain about the performance of the systems other than 3677 and the 4645C subwoofer.

I have heard 3678 once and it didn't impress me. I was interested in the 3678 because it allows for active use without removing the internal filter. But unfortunately the performance was not comparable with 3677.

I have heard a couple of other JBL systems (3731, 4722N) and while they all sound impressive, non of them had the same musical performance as 3677. It might be because of the other components or because they were improperly setup (not using tune dem) or lacking important tweaks. I don't know. If I find some other speaker on Ebay in good condition and good price, I might buy and compare just for the fun of it.

/ Jacob

[beck]

Ignore this post!

[matthias]

Thank you, Jacob.

Matt

[Music Lover]

Just to clarify, the bass performance is amazing - down to a certain freq. Under that freq, the bass is gone.
During burn in, that freq is getting lower.
After just three weeks, I can't say how low it will be.

And the performance variations (sound and musicality) during burn in are the biggest I ever experienced.

[WIJI]

I am quite excited to see where this thread goes, but I suspect it may prove to be purely academic for me personally, as the repeated reference to a lack of low bass does give me cause for concern. Perhaps unnecessarily so, but I am somewhat spoilt with my existing system performance particularly in the lower registers.

Does anyone have any pictures of the crossover removal process showing the inside of the cabinets and the electronics please.

Paul.

[u252agz]

These speakers sound really exciting and I am sure once the hard core cartel in Sweden have finished with them, they will be spectacularly good.

Unfortunately I am constrained by space ( nothing wider than 242/350s ) and in the foreseeable future will have to be content with speakers that both sound and look rather polite.

It will be interesting to hear how they cope with less than optimal source and amps.

[beck]

Yes, space will be a problem but it is refreshing with a new approach towards quality sound and music at home.

[Lemmy]

Interesting project!

Too bad that the size and looks of these speakers makes them so intimidating that I can't see that many people would want to have them in their living room, except for the real hard core enthusiasts.

Fredrik: Why not try to take the speaker hardware and the modifications and install them in a great-looking cabinet, and add this speaker to your product range? Everyone loves a great speaker!

[DelNaja]

Speaking of (bad) looks, do you think it would be possible to use some kind of fabric/textile to cover them (or just the front) up? Kind of like what Linn do with the 520/530 series. Have any of you owners considered this? Do you think such a modification would affect performance?

[Music Lover]

Fredrik: Why not try to take the speaker hardware and the modifications and install them in a great-looking cabinet, and add this speaker to your product range? Everyone loves a great speaker!

That is a project we discussed but personally I believe that not that many going to be prepared paying a LOT (going to be very expensive) for that speaker due to size&design.
A 15" bass and a huge horn loaded treble compressor isn't something you can put on a small and curved design. The speaker going to be big with a flat baffle.

Based on the present market, an "old classic boxy" and huge speaker isn't an easy sell today.

Also, that is a huge project and I think Fredrik's time is better spent on a streamer that is superior to KDS.
That going to be attractive to MANY more customers and also make the amps an easier sell. (a complete product line of electronics is very important imho)

But a Lejonklou external Xover for 3677 that further increase the performance is. (even if that in itself is a big undertaking)

[Music Lover]

Speaking of (bad) looks, do you think it would be possible to use some kind of fabric/textile to cover them (or just the front) up? Kind of like what Linn do with the 520/530 series. Have any of you owners considered this? Do you think such a modification would affect performance?

I just LOVE the old and down to earth design, AND the look of the drivers.
Full focus on performance!!

Getting tired on all consumer products today were the budget is mainly spent on design and marketing. :-(

btw
The performance drop is almost negligible if you get a purpose build fabric. But for me, worse is not the way forward regardless of the amount. ;-)

[lejonklou]

Why not try to take the speaker hardware and the modifications and install them in a great-looking cabinet, and add this speaker to your product range? Everyone loves a great speaker!

As Music Lover mentioned, this is an interesting idea but not a top priority. My thought is to make the modifications open source, and if a completely new filter can be made, passive or active, that is substantially better than a modified original, then that might become a commercial product.

A new cabinet is very tempting as well. Great-looking - well - it's going to be a BIG box regardless of how nice it looks. And I would like to add an 18" woofer as well, to fill up the bottom down to below 20 Hz. Oooooh, what a project! Not the most sensible, I give to you that, but tempting.

[lejonklou]

Speaking of (bad) looks, do you think it would be possible to use some kind of fabric/textile to cover them (or just the front) up?

Jajo has his behind a cinema screen and its impact on the music is very small. So I say Yes, no problem!

Naturally, an appropriate fabric needs to be used.

[jajo]

Some words about "Lack of bass".

3677 is built to be used with a subwoofer. They don't produce any bass below 40hz and they start rolling off at 80hz (this is the normal crossover point between L/C/R and subs in a cinema).

I use a single JBL 4645C subwoofer (18 inch) to cover 22hz-80hz. This is a great match. 4645C has the same neutral sound (no sonic character, you just hear the recording).

The bass in 3677 is amazing. They will sound thin when you are used to other speakers, because they don't rumble or produce any "boom". All you hear is the bass on the recording, which sometimes is a lot less than you expected because most speakers have distortion in the bass that makes the low end sound "bigger". When you get used to 3677, other speakers sound very unsophisticated. I can't even listen to music in my car anymore, because the blurry bass annoys me. When the recording has lots of bass, 3677 will reproduce it. In true scale. But not the deepest content.

/ Jacob

[Charlie1]

The 3677 is only available from Cinema installers within the UK of which there is only a few. I called a couple of the larger ones and they don't even stock it so certainly wouldn't be able to dem them first. They are approx £1,100 a pair in the UK so not something I'd ever purchase without a dem.

[Erik]

The 3677 is only available from Cinema installers within the UK of which there is only a few. I called a couple of the larger ones and they don't even stock it so certainly wouldn't be able to dem them first. They are approx £1,100 a pair in the UK so not something I'd ever purchase without a dem.

I bought mine unheard, and it's one of the best decisions I have made when it comes to buying hi-fi equipment.

/Erik

[matthias]

AFAIK, the price for a pair in UK is GBP 1130 excluding VAT.

Matt

[Efraim roots]

Wow, this is really cool! And a bit crazy of course, You guys are real rebels :-) I always had JBL in the back of mind since I've heard some really good professional designs before. These speakers could be something I would be interested in as well. Is the results with separate boxes for crossovers similar to klångedang, short cable to x-over and long between x-over and speakers? (Those extra boxes has always disturbed me a little, would be nice to integrate them in the stand).
Another question which I understand doesn't interest others but would be relevant for me. Do you think one of these speakers could be used successfully as a top (playing down to something like 90Hz) in a Disco system stack together with a pair of horn loaded 18" bass bins driven to max, or are they too delicate for powerful PA?

[christian]

I bought mine unheard, and it's one of the best decisions I have made when it comes to buying hi-fi equipment.

/Erik

Same here!