Balanced or standard interconnects?

[hcl]

As this forum is the forum gathering the most quality focused people I know of, it would be interesting to check how many that use balanced interconnects v.s. standard interconnects? It is not a question weather balanced is better or not. I would just like to know what interest there would be for a balanced cable improving on the Linn Silver?

Could you please state how many (pairs) of each types You use in Your main hifi-system? I will sum this up in a couple of days.

Ex.
B 1
S 2

For a system comprising of two sources, one connected using balanced and one connected using standard interconnects and one pair of standard interconnects between pre- and the power-amp.

% % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % %

Result (18/01/2016):
B 3
S 33

% % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % %

The result so far is that there is a big over weight for unbalanced interconnects (I use 1 balanced and 4 standard). It seems it would be much more valuable if we could come up with an unbalanced interconnect improving on the Linn Silver.

[lejonklou]

I would just like to know what interest ther would be for a balanced cable improving on the Linn Silver

This sounds exciting!

B: 0
S: 3

I am very interested in the cable itself, without connectors! I would like to try to build an unbalanced cable with it. Please contact me if you're willing to sell me a few metres. I can also sign an NDA and promise not make a balanced version with it (that's your field).

[Erik]

B=0
S=4

/Erik

[hcl]

I would just like to know what interest ther would be for a balanced cable improving on the Linn Silver

This sounds exciting!

B: 0
S: 3

I am very interested in the cable itself, without connectors! I would like to try to build an unbalanced cable with it. Please contact me if you're willing to sell me a few metres. I can also sign an NDA and promise not make a balanced version with it (that's your field).

Yes, I've had in mind to make an unbalanced to see if it is good for that too. No time yet, though. I don't have the correct item no. here, but I'll send it as soon as I get hold of it.
The cable is thick and stiff, not the easiest to work with. Not very compatible with RCA-conmectors.

[stefan]

S=2
B=1

/Stefan

[tokenbrit]

B: 0
S: 4

[beck]

B : 0
S : 2

[Charlie1]

B: 0
S: 2

[DelNaja]

B: 0
S: 3

[David Neel]

B: 0
S: 4

[WIJI]

B: 1
S: 5

My 1 balanced set are 9m long and are from my preamp to my crossovers.

Paul.

[moog_man]

I would just like to know what interest ther would be for a balanced cable improving on the Linn Silver

This sounds exciting!

I am very interested in the cable itself, without connectors! I would like to try to build an unbalanced cable with it. Please contact me if you're willing to sell me a few metres. I can also sign an NDA and promise not make a balanced version with it (that's your field).

Yes, I've had in mind to make an unbalanced to see if it is good for that too. No time yet, though. I don't have the correct item no. here, but I'll send it as soon as I get hold of it.
The cable is thick and stiff, not the easiest to work with. Not very compatible with RCA-connectors.

This thread has come at an ideal time... I'm just about to move back to London and need to drop three runs of approx 6m from the rack - on the right of the living room - to below the TV - on the front elevation wall. This is for Left, Centre and Right speakers and will potentially go under the floorboards... once I've heard them to check they're alright.
I've monitored all previous threads on this - both here and in the Linn forum, where the company maintains that Balanced is best. Indeed, their Klimax Exaktbox is Balanced-only. Others have continued to suggest otherwise. So, I'm tending towards a Silver cable with RCA plugs. That also gives me the option to swap out the existing amps for a trio of Tundra2s further down the line.
Someone on the Linn forum - or was it here? - suggested I buy Balanced cable and fit RCA plugs. This would give me the option to change to XLRs, if I change ever my mind. But this post suggests that may not be possible: http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread. ... 7#pid48697
Also, when discussing specific Klimax units, this Linn employee's input may help: http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread. ... #pid207293
The discussion also took up residence in the "Which is the optimal length of speaker wires?" thread, around here.

It does get confusing as I currently have a balanced Silver cable with RCA plug out of the AK/0 (for Centre channel) feeding a balanced AK4200, which is terminated with a Neutrik XLR. Although I've done lengthy auditions and couldn't tell any difference between this cable and a regular unbalanced RCA Silver, I'd prefer to run everything with RCAs. Which means selling the balanced power amp but that's another story.
When I get into the property in another three weeks, I'll be able to listen for any differences between running the main speakers with balanced and/ or unbalanced Silvers linking the pre- to power. I also haven't forgotten a forum promise to compare a new/ unused pair of original Linn Silver/0s (ie. non-slat plugs) against a /1 set (also unused) and less than a year old /2 Silvers.
If the balanced aren't required, I'll gladly ship either one (they're a pair of 2m length) or the set to you, Fredrik. To clarify, as this post is beginning to ramble... these are a pair of balanced Linn Silvers, terminated at one end with Linn Silver RCAs, the other with Neutrik XLRs. Made up by a Scots dealer in May 2010. They've been in constant use until I replaced them with a s/h 3m pair of Balanced XLRs last June, apparently made up by Linn.

[ThomasOK]

B: 0
S: 3
?: 1

I have three sets of Linn Silver RCA to RCA 1.2m for my sources. I have a 4m cable made with Linn Balanced Silver wire with XLRs at the speakers (active) and RCAs at the preamp end. This was found by me to be more musical than XLR to XLR when coming out of the KK/1. It is, of course, now necessary with the Sagatun Monos.

[matthias]

B: 0
S: 3
?: 1

I have three sets of Linn Silver RCA to RCA 1.2m for my sources. I have a 4m cable made with Linn Balanced Silver wire with XLRs at the speakers (active) and RCAs at the preamp end. This was found by me to be more musical than XLR to XLR when coming out of the KK/1. It is, of course, now necessary with the Sagatun Monos.

Thomas,
why did you choose the Balanced Silvers and not the unbalanced ones for the RCA- XLR connection?

Matt

[ThomasOK]

B: 0
S: 3
?: 1

I have three sets of Linn Silver RCA to RCA 1.2m for my sources. I have a 4m cable made with Linn Balanced Silver wire with XLRs at the speakers (active) and RCAs at the preamp end. This was found by me to be more musical than XLR to XLR when coming out of the KK/1. It is, of course, now necessary with the Sagatun Monos.

Thomas,
why did you choose the Balanced Silvers and not the unbalanced ones for the RCA- XLR connection?

Matt

Initially it was for expedience as I started out using XLR to XLR from the KK to my ATCs just assuming that would be best. I used original Linn Silver XLRs for this (not the Neutriks they currently overcharge you for when you order Silver XLR connectors). However, I made up a pair of RCA to XLR adapters to allow the cables to be connected to other preamps. Imagine my surprise when I found the cable to sound better through the adaptors (which just used some Canon XLRs I had laying around from LK2 days) from the KK RCA outputs than direct through the XLRs. Later on I made a similar cable for a friend using unbalanced Linn Silver but in this setup I did find the Balanced Silver interconnect to be a little better than the Unbalanced Silver cable, although not by much. My friend eventually borrowed my cables and ended up having me make him a pair with the Balanced Silver cable. However, it is a bit of a pain to fit the RCA on Balanced Silver wire.

[jlwdm]

B: 0
S: 0

Majik DSM

One of these days I will hook up my Tundra and this will change.

Jeff

[moog_man]

I have three sets of Linn Silver RCA to RCA 1.2m for my sources. I have a 4m cable made with Linn Balanced Silver wire with XLRs at the speakers (active) and RCAs at the preamp end. This was found by me to be more musical than XLR to XLR when coming out of the KK/1. It is, of course, now necessary with the Sagatun Monos.

Thomas,
why did you choose the Balanced Silvers and not the unbalanced ones for the RCA- XLR connection?

Initially it was for expedience as I started out using XLR to XLR from the KK to my ATCs just assuming that would be best. I used original Linn Silver XLRs for this (not the Neutriks they currently overcharge you for when you order Silver XLR connectors). However, I made up a pair of RCA to XLR adapters to allow the cables to be connected to other preamps. Imagine my surprise when I found the cable to sound better through the adaptors (which just used some Canon XLRs I had laying around from LK2 days) from the KK RCA outputs than direct through the XLRs. Later on I made a similar cable for a friend using unbalanced Linn Silver but in this setup I did find the Balanced Silver interconnect to be a little better than the Unbalanced Silver cable, although not by much. My friend eventually borrowed my cables and ended up having me make him a pair with the Balanced Silver cable. However, it is a bit of a pain to fit the RCA on Balanced Silver wire.

Interesting observations, Thomas... although making my decision harder to settle on !
Does the balanced cable offer any further protection from the unbalanced?
And, is it quite easy to swap one plug (ie. RCA) for another (ie. XLR) in situ, ie. most of this cable will be in a conduit pipe behind the skirting board and so the only access will be approx 70-100cm of cable emerging out of the wall socket.

Finally, important one this: is there a 'Lejonklou method' for soldering the plugs (either RCA or XLR) onto the ends, please. ie. Preferred solder manufacturer, preferred solder wire and recommended temperature.

At the moment, I'm tending towards a Balanced cable - either terminated with RCAs both ends or, RCA from the pre- to XLR for the power (as is currently configured for the centre channel).

All considered thoughts invited...

[Music Lover]

It would provide more usable info if all of you also mentioned where all these IC's are used, what IC you use and how you know the IC's are "good ones".

Also, after comparing close to 20 pairs IC's (all Linn silver mkI, factory soldered), balanced and single-ended - it's not ONLY balanced vs single-ended. It's about finding a good IC!
We tested all IC's one by one, and put them in order best to worse. The two best ones formed pair #1. The third/forth best formed pair #2. etc...
I know, it's probably a mental disorder but even a small difference is a difference :)

A great balanced IC can be better than using a bad single-ended IC.
As always test yourself :)

I use the best balanced pair from my DS to KK, and the best single-ended pair feeding the signal to Mono2s.
The second best single-ended pair is used between my Oppo105 to KK.

[lejonklou]

Imagine my surprise when I found the cable to sound better through the adaptors (which just used some Canon XLRs I had laying around from LK2 days) from the KK RCA outputs than direct through the XLRs.

It's important to understand what does what here, in order to draw the right conclusions.

We have unbalanced versus balanced signals.
We have "unbalanced" versus "balanced" cables.
We have different ways of connecting "balanced" cables to transmit unbalanced signals.
We have RCAs versus XLR's.

When Linn released the balanced Silver interconnect cable, I compared running it in pseudo balanced mode between two RCA's. In other words, I made an unbalanced cable with a Silver RCA in each end, using the balanced Silver cable. This I found performed worse than when using the unbalanced Silver cable between two Silver RCA's.

So for transmitting unbalanced signals, I believe the unbalanced cable is better.

[lejonklou]

I know, it's probably a mental disorder but even a small difference is a difference :)

You are so right. Even a small difference is a difference. And many small differences add up to a BIG difference! That's why attention to detail is so important.

[Music Lover]

When Linn released the balanced Silver interconnect cable, I compared running it in pseudo balanced mode between two RCA's. In other words, I made an unbalanced cable with a Silver RCA in each end, using the balanced Silver cable. This I found performed worse than when using the unbalanced Silver cable between two Silver RCA's.

So for transmitting unbalanced signals, I believe the unbalanced cable is better.

Great test!
Did you ever perform the opposite test? Using single-ended cable(s) in a balanced setup...

[lejonklou]

Did you ever perform the opposite test? Using single-ended cable(s) in a balanced setup...

No. I don't see how that's possible, as there is one conductor too few.

[matthias]

So for transmitting unbalanced signals, I believe the unbalanced cable is better.

That means for a RCA-to-XLR connection the unbalanced silver should be better.

Matt

[moog_man]

So for transmitting unbalanced signals, I believe the unbalanced cable is better.

That means for a RCA-to-XLR connection the unbalanced silver should be better.

Definitely?
I ask because Linn have a diagram that, I think, is for a Balanced cable:

Single-ended_to_Balanced.jpg

Perhaps someone who knows more about this than I would confirm if that is a balanced cable in the diagram.

[matthias]

Perhaps someone who knows more about this than I would confirm if that is a balanced cable in the diagram.

Yes, it is a balanced cable but it does not mean that the balanced cable sounds better. You can simply connect Pin1 and Pin3 with the screen of the unbalanced cable to get the same result.

Matt