Which pre-amp next?

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David Neel
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Which pre-amp next?

Post by David Neel »

Hi, I've been lurking for a while, and there seem to be some sensible people here, so I'm looking for advice.
I'm thinking of upgrading my pre-amp. Currently have LP12/Keel/Ekos/Adikt feeding Wakonda/LK140/Kans. I've spotted a Kinos going cheap - but it has no phono section, so I'd have to budget extra for one, and both MM and MC would be nice to cope with future upgrades. I don't need any digital/AV features, the system is two channel only. The alternatives could be a Majik Kontrol, or a used Exotik.
How good is the phono stage in the Majik? Is it the same as the Akurate? I've heard that these are Linto circuitry - is this correct? And how close are the Majik and Exotik/Akurate to a Kinos as a pre-amp?
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Post by Azazello »

I'd say: forget about MM/MC. Go for Slipsik and a good line-preamp like late 5103, Exotik (or Kinos), if you buy a MC later, get a Linto. To play an expensive MC with anything but Linto seems like a waste of money to me (Linto is better than Akurate kontrol).

The RIIA in Slipsik outperforms the RIIA in Akurate Kontrol so the combo Slipsik-Exotik will leave Majik far behind (since Exotik:s line-inputs is better than Majik). I'm not sure about the performance of 5103 compared to Majik pre, my guess is that they are quite similar (anyone?). If you can get a 5103 at a good price (you can buy them for circa 500 EUR in Sweden today :shock: ), that's a really good option as well.

Regards and Wellcome! :D
Last edited by Azazello on 2008-05-21 16:50, edited 1 time in total.
David Neel
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Post by David Neel »

Thanks, Azazello.

From your reply I gather the Exotik/Akurate is better than the Majik, rather than just having multi-channel digital processing, which hadn't been clear to me. Is the Kinos significantly better again, for two-channel? It may be too late already, but I saw one (ex-dem) for about 1400 euro, which seems cheap.

Do any UK retailers have the Slipsik?
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Post by Charlie1 »

Hi David, I agree with Azazello re an expensive MC and Linto. I had my LP12SE and Akiva hanging off a Majik Kontrol until recently (http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopi ... 9&start=20). Upgrading to a Linto made a huge difference in both Hi-Fi and Tune Dem and is something I should have done ages ago!

If I had an Adikt I would buy a Slipsik even though I've never heard one. I trust Fredrik and have faith that the Lejonklou products are as good as reported.

I may have a Majik Kontrol for sale soon although I also think your LP12 deserves better. I may be able to put you in touch with someone selling an Akurate Kontrol if you're interested, but not sure if they would sell outside UK. PM me if interested in either (might be a bit slow to reply over next few days)
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Post by poppop »

David

Just to add my twopence worth. Ive owned all the pres mentioned over the years.
I think they have been ranked in other threads, but in order of improvement:
5103 - Majik Kontrol - Akurate kontrol - Kinos.

IMO the kinos was quite a jump froward - interestingly I always think its one of linns forgotten gems!! Few months ago on ebay one sold for LESS than an Akurate kontrol - Wild!

Im sure views will differ, but good luck whichever way you decide.

Steve.
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Post by Charlie1 »

Perhaps markus still has this Kinos for sale?
http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=257

This thread might also be of use
http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=264
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Post by lejonklou »

Welcome here David!

You certainly have a very nice upgrade ahead of you with such a high level LP12 as a source. I agree with Steve's ranking of the Linn preamps - they do improve in sound as the price goes up, it's not just features that are added. I know several people who have bought a Kinos to use as a 2-channel preamp only (it was also common back when the 5103 was new and expensive), because it is really quite a bit better than the Exotik/Akurate Kontrol.

I think two of the best value for money deals that are rather frequently found right now, at least on the Swedish market, is 5103 (as Azazello mentioned they have gone down to ridiculously low prices) and the original analogue Exotik (which can be found for about twice as much). I recently compared my old analogue Exotik with a new Akurate Kontrol and while the AK was a bit better, there was no denying they were of the same basic construction. The old Exotik sounded a bit thin in comparison, but it was no major difference IMHO.

Regarding UK retailers carrying Lejonklou products, I am sorry to say that there is currently none. The fault is entirely mine, as I have not contacted one single UK shop. The current retailers are in Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Italy (list below) but I will soon make an effort to expand that list. I have been buried in development work most of this year and was hoping to first present another product before trying to expand the retailer network.

Unless you want to contact any of the current retailers (unlikely as they're not in your country), you can either tell me the name of your UK retailer and I will contact them to see if they are interested, or I could send you one that you can try out for a couple of weeks before deciding whether to keep it or send it back (at my expense).

CURRENT LIST OF RETAILERS
Denmark
HiFi-Forum in Frederiksberg, Copenhagen
Scala Hifi i Århus

Finland
Musiikin.com in Helsinki

Italy
Key Systems in Rome, tel +3933 5128 4447

Sweden
Tonläget in Gothenburg
Takt & Ton in Luleå
HiFi Butiken in Östersund
Last edited by lejonklou on 2008-05-21 20:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ThomasOK »

Welcome David,
I agree with the other comments above on the ranking of preamps and especially that the Linto is the way to go for moving coil. I have had a Lejonklou Kinki on loan form Fredrik and the performance is substantially better than the Majik Kontrol phono stage and close to the Akurate Kontrol. Considering this I have no doubt that the Slipsik would handily outperform the Akurate Kontrol making it probably the best MM phono stage you can buy. Connect that into any of the preamps mentioned and you will have a very nice upgrade.

My one word of warning on the AV5103 is that it is a pain in the a** to set up - even the owner here prefers not to deal with them. It is OK once you get the hang of it but it is anything but intuitive.
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Post by David Neel »

Many thanks to everybody for their replies. Unfortunately, I hesitated, and the Kinos has now been sold - somebody has a real bargain, it seems. I will keep an eye out for another Kinos - after what you have all said I don't think I'll be satisfied by a Majik.
Fredrik, thank you for your offer of a Slipsik trial. If I find another cheap Kinos (or Exotik), I will definitely try the Slipsik.
Charlie1, I will PM you in a few days about the possible Akurate, but I fear this is beyond my immediate budget.

Again, thanks for all the help and information.
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Post by David Neel »

Charlie1,

Many thanks for your offers. After listening to all the advice and information on the forum, I've come to the conclusion that I agree with you: a Majik K would not be enough, I need to set my sights higher. As I'm unlikely to find another Kinos at that price, I've set my sights on an Exotik.

This may not be immediate - whilst I probably won't turn down a well-priced Exotik, I've also got the unexpected chance to do something rather different about the tonearm, a conflicting way to spend the same money. If this happens in a few months' time, be assured I'll report back.
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Post by Charlie1 »

No probs David. Good luck with the tonearm and look forward to hearing what you've done.
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Post by markus »

Charlie1 wrote:Perhaps markus still has this Kinos for sale?
http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=257
thanxs charlie for the quote. yes, my kinos is still available for sale.
so david, if you are interested please contact me.

markus
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Post by David Neel »

I haven't upgraded yet, not spending money in uncertain times, but I'm still planning hopefully... I saw this in another thread:
lejonklou wrote: The Majik Kontrol uses the same main board as the Exotik, but with 2 channels only. It has the same phono board but no digital inputs. It uses a simplified version of the Slimline power supply used in the Exotik.
and from earlier in this thread:
ThomasOK wrote:I have had a Lejonklou Kinki on loan form Fredrik and the performance is substantially better than the Majik Kontrol phono stage and close to the Akurate Kontrol.
Help! Two knowledgeable people seem to be disagreeing! I have understood that the Akurate Kontrol is a re-named Exotik +DA. If the only difference between Majik K and Exotik/Akurate K for two-channel use is the power supply, does the simplified version of the power supply really have this much effect? Or, are the phono boards actually different as well?

Or is it that boards are "graded" - the better ones going to the more expensive product?

Thanks in advance... all I need now is the money to do something about this good advice!
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Post by lejonklou »

Hi David!

The phono board in Majik Kontrol and Akurate Kontrol is the same and I don't believe they are graded in any way. Yes, the power supplies make a big difference! As the phono board has no separate regulation and handles the most sensitive signals in the preamp, the power supply quality shines through the most there.

I know that a lot of people have wondered whether a MK will sound as good as an AK if you change the power supply in the MK to a Slimline. I don't know the answer, because I haven't tried it. There may be some additional details that make a difference, but the main board is the same (with all multi-channel stuff omitted on the MK) and the phono board is identical.
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Post by David Neel »

Thanks!

That reinforces my earlier thoughts that an early Exotik is the best for me, unless I find an AK or Kinos at a silly price.

Will let you all know what I do, when I do it. Preamp is second in line after TT (source first and all that). I've found a s/h Lingo2, but not yet installed as there may be other changes to make at the same time, and I only want to pay for one rebuild.
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