Non-Linn products that perform well regarding Tune Method

[Charlie1]

I think it's fair to say that, in general, Linn products out perform other manufacturer's regarding the Tune Method, but I'm curious to find out if forum members have heard any non-Linn products that come close or even exceed Linn performance in this area. I know at least one member has found that ATC speakers can out perform Linn speakers and it's recently been posted that the hideously expensive Nordost Odin can outperform Linn Silver's, so I wonder if there are any others. There's no hidden agenda - I'm not looking to upgrade at the moment and jump ship - just curious that's all.

[Charlie1]

I forgot to also include the Lejonklou products in the list of those that can exceed Linn regarding Tune Method – Doh! Sorry Fredrik.

[Azazello]

I'm very curious about AVI:s speaker range, especially ADM-9. I have never heard them, but I trust ThomasOK:s judgement.

Naim, on the other hand, has always failed to impress me when I have had the chance to listen to them. That's a brand that usually is brought up in discussions like this.

[radar2866]

I use ADM9s, and find that they outperform my old system of Ninkas, 5103 and 2250. I admit that I like a soundstage, and the Ninkas just never gave me one. I find the ADM9s provide a great soundstage, as well as doing the tunedem thing. They also sound great with my LP-12.

[Music Lover]

Naim and Bonnec are quite good.

[lejonklou]

Charlie: Doh :!:

Seriously, my company has so far only me (developing), and a very skilled production team in Estonia. But I currently feel the knowledge curve is pointing straight up, so I hope to able to surprise you all in the near future.

Rega and Creek are two companies that I respect; they have made some really good products in the past. Not in Linn class, but less expensive and they have played music. It feels like Rega (definitely the stronger of the two) have made a comeback these last years, and they manage to keep making their rather inexpensive turntables in Britain. I'm not sure about Creek, though. Anyone heard their later models?

[Charlie1]

Thanks everyone for the comments. As well as being a point of interest, it's actually quite handy to have an idea of such things. Last year my father-in-law asked for some advice regarding a new budget CD player. Not being within Linn price range, I didn't really know what to suggest. I said I thought Arcam would be OK, but wasn't really up with it. And as we all know, the magazines seem to be more concerned with the Hi-Fi aspects rather than whether equipment can really play music.

[ThomasOK]

I could write a pretty lengthy post on this but I might just break it up into a couple of posts. I'll start out with some of the more economical stuff. I also find Rega to be a great manufacturer. They make a number of very good sounding products. In turntables I really don't see any reason to look at any other company in the price range from $395US for the P1 (which includes cartridge) through the P2, P3 and P5 up to the $2695US P7 - they are all very musical products that outperform all others I have heard in their price ranges, and each one is clearly better than the one below it. Almost none of the "Better than a Linn" turntables we have heard could outperform a Rega Planar3 so our running joke when we hear of yet another LP12 killer is "Yeah, but can it beat a Rega P3?"

Over the last decade Rega has expanded their range with much success. The $1195 Apollo and $2595 Saturn CD players are the best I've heard in their price ranges and the $695 Brio3 and $1195 Mira3 are really great integrated amps with quite decent MM phono stages built in. And their $350 Fono MM and $295 Ear headphone amps are also good values. I do have to say here that as good as the Rega electronics are a $1875 Linn Classik K still outperforms the Saturn/Mira3 combo for less money. I find we sell more of the Rega units to those looking to replace older components one piece at a time - for system buyers the Classik Music is hard to beat. But as Linn is not producing that anymore and the replacement Classik Music is bound to be more expensive we will have to see how the products line up when it arrives. I like these products better than the Arcam pieces in this range although I have always found their products worthwhile too. Since they are replacing virtually all of their stereo offerings with new models over the next couple of months I will have to listen to those before I can say how they compare. But I do feel that the current $749 CD73 is a very good CD player for those who don't want to stretch to the Apollo.

Before I leave Rega I should mention that I am also quite impressed with the models at the entry of their speaker range. The $595 R1 bookshelf speakers, $995 R3 and $1395 R5 floorstanders (all priced per pair) are all very good value for the money. They are like older Linn speakers in preferring to be quite close to the back wall and pointed straight out and they have a very musical sound for the money. They are also compact and attractive so they can fit into rooms that many bigger speakers would dominate.

Other "budget" products I find musicaly enjoyable include the entry products in the NAD line. The $449 C325BEE is a quite nice integrated amp, especially if you don't need a phono stage. And the $499 C542 is the best under $500 CD player I have heard and not to far short of the Arcam. Their less expensive CD players and integrated are good values too but those two are the standouts to me. The bigger integrated amps offer more power but the Regas offer more music.

And for those in North America, Paradigm makes some pretty good speakers at the entry level. Their $298 a pair Atom Monitor is better than it has any right to be as are a number of the other Monitor series. It is great fun to hook up an LP12SE with Klimax electronics to a pair of Atoms on Katan stands and blow people away at the music that can come out of $300 a pair speakers - the hierarchy in action.

Although I was fond of the Creek amps and tuners in the early days of that company I have not heard the pieces they have been making for the last several years so I don't know how they stand now. I think that's probably enough for the first installment.

[vicdiaz]

Yeez!!!

I used to sell and service all those brands (except ARCAM) 21 years ago, before I fisnished college and switched to the IT business.

The only good thing that has happened to me in those 21 years since I switched to IT was meeting my wife and my kids.

Man, I would love to go back to the Hi-Fi business!!! I really miss it!!!

[lejonklou]

Vic: The hifi business is a lot of fun, but you have to consider that if you go back to it, you will most likely make half the money you do in IT. I always choose quality before quantity, so I only have myself to blame if I die economically poor. :lol:

Charlie: Infamous Rega P3? You must have meant famous!

Regarding the Rega turntables, it's interesting to note how the old Planar 3 was improved to become the current P3. Basically they borrowed details from the Linn Basik turntable...

[Charlie1]

Charlie: Infamous Rega P3? You must have meant famous!

You are quite right. My wife also thought it just meant famous/notorious and her English is much better than mine, so I don't feel too bad :)
I often think you is drawing da English betterer than me is doing Mr L. My Swedish is impeccable of course so I feel we're on par overall

[ThomasOK]

Yeez!!!

I used to sell and service all those brands (except ARCAM) 21 years ago, before I fisnished college and switched to the IT business.

The only good thing that has happened to me in those 21 years since I switched to IT was meeting my wife and my kids.

Man, I would love to go back to the Hi-Fi business!!! I really miss it!!!

There does seem to be a fair bit of crossover from the Hi-Fi field to IT. I started selling Hi-Fi in early 1978 selling most of the same brands mentioned above (Paradigm and Arcam would be the exceptions but there were also many additions). I worked at a few different stores in Michigan and California and even did a stint as National Sales Manager for the Linn and Naim importer. My one requirement for any shop I worked in was that they had to be a Linn dealer. When I had done about everything you could do in the Hi-Fi field, short of manufacturing, I switched over to selling computers. Starting in 1985 I sold and supported computers until 2001, again in both California and Michigan along the way also becoming an Apple Certified Service Technician for computers and printers. My one requirement for any shop I worked in was that they had to be a Macintosh dealer. (Anyone sense some brand loyalty here.)

In 2001 I came to the conclusion that there were no Macintosh dealers in Southeastern Michigan who could support the level of business I needed to do to make a decent living. I also decided that I didn't want to move elsewhere at the time. So having re-energized my interest in Hi-Fi through system upgrades made possible by the then new eBay, I had some talks with Keith, the owner of Overture Audio, and went back to work in the Hi-Fi field. Keith and I had worked together in the early years of my career when we each managed a store in the same, small, now-defunct audio store chain. When he started Overture Audio he picked up where the other store left off. His requirement for starting the store was that he had to be authorized for Linn and NAD. He also started with Rega, Nakamichi, Creek and others. He and I are like-minded in putting the emphasis on providing the best possible music and movie reproduction at a wide range of price levels. Our one overriding concern is that anything we sell has to be good enough that we can enjoy listening to it ourselves. As such we do tend to cherry-pick our lines, not carrying models we don't like. I have to say it is fun being back in Hi-Fi. While I don't make quite as much as I did selling computers, I do make an acceptable living and I enjoy my work. :)

[Lego]

Audio technica 95E I think it was called;their cheapest cartridge,NAD 3020(heard it drive isobariks once 8) sounded good but I'm sure I saw smoke coming out the back),goldring 1040,which I later upgraded to the K18 which sounded very similar.I later found out down the pub that it was Goldring who made some of the magnets for linn.The Pal radio and the Naim 42.5 and 110 probably the best amps they made.

Hope everyone is well.

Leo

[lejonklou]

Audio technica 95E I think it was called

Thanks for your list, Leo. Hope you are well too. While most of these were products from the past, the AT95E is still alive and kicking. It's not AT's cheapest cartridge, but certainly the one with best value for money!

Sadly, many other models from Audio Technica are less than exciting. And the same goes for NAD and Goldring. PAL? I thought it was Tivoli model ONE that was the best model? Have heard several others, but only model ONE managed to make a solid impression.

[vicdiaz]

If I recall correctly the Linn cartridges were manufactured/voiced by:

Linn Basik (AT95E), K9, K18 -> Audio Technica
Trak, Asak, Asaka, Karma -> Sumiko
Troika, Klyde, Adikt -> Goldring
Arkive(s), Akiva -> Lyra (voiced by Jonathan Carr, Lyra's chief designer)

[Music Lover]

I have a Nokia E90 that to my rather big surprice is fun listen to radio with, despite the poor original headset.
Bad HIFI sound, absolutely no bass but musical.

No, I have no intension testing mp3's 8)

[Lego]

I have the model one and the Tivoli Pal and I prefer listening to music and speech on the Pal.Although when listening to the Pal I'm usually sitting out in the glorious sunshine sipping a Loire :lol: I've been temped to plug both into my Ron Smith Galaxie roof aerial and compare but too scared I might prefer both or one of them to the Kremlin :shock:

[lejonklou]

Really? So the PAL is the best of the Tivolis?

It's quite possible I haven't listened to it, but I have heard the One and Two (the not very enjoyable stereo version where the second speaker has a much bigger internal volume in the cabinet...) and some CD-version, which sounded quite boring as well.

Thanks for the PAL tip. But rest assured, your Kremlin is way better than that. I think it might beat the new Akurate tuner as well. Haven't compared them side by side, though.

A Ron Smith Galaxie on the roof? Ok, you're cool.

[Lego]

Haven't compared the Tivolis like for like, they are very different as the speaker is higher up on the PAL and one tends to listen to it further away from any walls as its not connected to the mains when listening.Plugged into a laptop or original sansa mp3, you are well and truly cooking;Alfresco i.e.

[Azazello]

Moved a few posts to "Failing LP12 killers". No big deal, but this topic is very interesting. :)