Hi all. I have 2 twin mains points near my system, but following recommendations here, I tried connecting all units to a single 4-way mains extension block. I have found this Tune Dem's slightly better, especially in the order suggested, but now want check out other mains blocks as the existing one is just something we used around the house.
Can anyone recommend a UK mains block for better Tune Dem? As an alternative, I am also curious about the Naim style Hydra as the parts can be obtained quite cheaply on eBay. Of course, I'd have to cut the plugs off all my Linn mains leads, so it's not something I can undo.
Also, should I try and replace the lead on the mains block with a Linn mains lead?
Finally, it was recommended that I try the mains lead without fuse as it is not required because all the individual leads have a fuse anyway - I believe mainland European mains blocks do not have a fuse?! However, I'm a bit nervous about this and not sure what to do. I presume I'd have to solder a wire across where the fuse is normally, but does this present a fire risk on UK mains?
Best UK Mains Power Blocks for Tune Dem?
Moderator: Staff
Hi Charlie,
I think the hydra thingy uses star earthing which I believe was not good for old linn amps not sure about new ones.Check out an alternative here http://www.grahams.co.uk/index.php/hifi/accessories#md
RS cables used to do good blocks I'll have a look on ebay and see if I can track one down.I recently bought a similar block for 15GBP which is ok but I have yet to disconnect the light.The name escapes me I'll let you know when I get home from work.
Cheers
Leo
I think the hydra thingy uses star earthing which I believe was not good for old linn amps not sure about new ones.Check out an alternative here http://www.grahams.co.uk/index.php/hifi/accessories#md
RS cables used to do good blocks I'll have a look on ebay and see if I can track one down.I recently bought a similar block for 15GBP which is ok but I have yet to disconnect the light.The name escapes me I'll let you know when I get home from work.
Cheers
Leo
I know that tune
Thanks Leo. I checked out the Grahams website. Their mains block looks fine, but they don't state the price. To be honest, it looks like something I could put together myself. They say that metal sockets are better, but I'm not sure if that means better Tune Dem or what.
My local Focus DIY store sell a metal block for about £15. I suppose I could give that a go and fit a Linn mains lead to it, but let me know about the RS one if you think that's worth a go.
I think I'll give the Hydra a miss if there is any doubt about it. I'd have to butcher all my Linn cables and it could be an expensive experiment.
Thanks again. Cheers, Charlie.
My local Focus DIY store sell a metal block for about £15. I suppose I could give that a go and fit a Linn mains lead to it, but let me know about the RS one if you think that's worth a go.
I think I'll give the Hydra a miss if there is any doubt about it. I'd have to butcher all my Linn cables and it could be an expensive experiment.
Thanks again. Cheers, Charlie.
I've tried quite a few main blocks, but they were all Shuko (Euro) versions and not UK, sorry to be unable to help you.
Anyway, I must point out that the metal cover or the apparent build quality has absolutely nothing to do with how it sounds. The best sounding mains blocks I have found so far have all been quite cheap looking moulded plastic things.
My advice is to buy only the cheap ones and borrow all the expensive ones - and then let your ears decide. It may very well be the most daft looking block you can find that sounds the best.
Anyway, I must point out that the metal cover or the apparent build quality has absolutely nothing to do with how it sounds. The best sounding mains blocks I have found so far have all been quite cheap looking moulded plastic things.
My advice is to buy only the cheap ones and borrow all the expensive ones - and then let your ears decide. It may very well be the most daft looking block you can find that sounds the best.
Thanks Fredrik. I will buy 2 or 3 cheap ones and report back to the forum. However, before doing so, I've noticed that many blocks over here now come with built-in surge protection. Do you think these are to be avoided?
Once I've settled on one, I think I'll also fit it with a Linn mains lead and see how that goes too.
A question for anyone and possibly mains related. I find that my system sounds better late at night, after 11pm 'ish. It's quite subtle, but I can sense a stillness and delicacy that isn't there at other times - it sounds more special and alive. IF this is mains related, is there anything that can be done to make it sound this good all the time? I was wondering about a dedicated spur, but that's just an idea. What does anyone else think?
Once I've settled on one, I think I'll also fit it with a Linn mains lead and see how that goes too.
A question for anyone and possibly mains related. I find that my system sounds better late at night, after 11pm 'ish. It's quite subtle, but I can sense a stillness and delicacy that isn't there at other times - it sounds more special and alive. IF this is mains related, is there anything that can be done to make it sound this good all the time? I was wondering about a dedicated spur, but that's just an idea. What does anyone else think?
Hi Charlie1,Charlie1 wrote:Thanks Fredrik. I will buy 2 or 3 cheap ones and report back to the forum.
A question for anyone and possibly mains related. I find that my system sounds better late at night, after 11pm 'ish. It's quite subtle, but I can sense a stillness and delicacy that isn't there at other times - it sounds more special and alive. IF this is mains related, is there anything that can be done to make it sound this good all the time? I was wondering about a dedicated spur, but that's just an idea. What does anyone else think?
Go for the cheapest possible mains blocks. The cheaper the simplier inside, which in my opinion, tend to give good sound. Sure, there are more more fanzy blocks out there, but they seldom gives anything but looks.
Avoid anything with surge protection, it will kill the dynamics.
The mains is quieter at night, most likely due to less disturbance, vacuum-cleaners and stuff are polluting the mains, hence the better sound...
Dedicated spur should be the first box to mark. But I know, it is not the first priority when climbing the hifi-ladder. It is rewarding (and cheap) to have it done. If possible have the hifi on a single phase also, it could be hard to do so as stoves normally uses all the three phases. But maybe you are lucky to have a decent gas stove, so you can enjoy some good music while cooking
/zeedje
I agree, additional surge protection and fuses (apart from what is already designed into the machine itself) are almost always bad for the sound.
The simple surge protection found in mains blocks also very rarely protects anything. A properly constructed machine should tolerate quite a bit on it's own, covering the vast majority of mains surges, and in case you get a direct or very close hit by lightning, nothing is going to help.
The additional fuses in power cords and blocks are also rather pointless IMHO. Apart from reducing sound quality, they add very little if any protection as 1) the powerlines are fused at the fusebox and 2) all machines have fuses inside or at the mains inlet.
That said, I don't think there's much one can do about the fuse-rally in UK (in Europe, we have no switches by the mains outputs, no fuses in the blocks and no fuses in the power cords either). I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to modify anything power related! You could experiment with a conversion to Shuko (Euro) power cords and a Shuko mains block ending with a UK plug, though. I know that some people have a Shuko block for their stereo only, but I don't know from any personal experience how much there is to gain by this.
The simple surge protection found in mains blocks also very rarely protects anything. A properly constructed machine should tolerate quite a bit on it's own, covering the vast majority of mains surges, and in case you get a direct or very close hit by lightning, nothing is going to help.
The additional fuses in power cords and blocks are also rather pointless IMHO. Apart from reducing sound quality, they add very little if any protection as 1) the powerlines are fused at the fusebox and 2) all machines have fuses inside or at the mains inlet.
That said, I don't think there's much one can do about the fuse-rally in UK (in Europe, we have no switches by the mains outputs, no fuses in the blocks and no fuses in the power cords either). I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to modify anything power related! You could experiment with a conversion to Shuko (Euro) power cords and a Shuko mains block ending with a UK plug, though. I know that some people have a Shuko block for their stereo only, but I don't know from any personal experience how much there is to gain by this.
Great, Thanks Fredrik.
Bought and tested a few mains blocks today. My first conclusion is that endlessly powering on/off/on/off your hi-fi can get a little bit tedious after a while! :evil:
Secondly, the differences between blocks was very subtle. More signifcant was the fact that a mains block was being used in the first place. I briefly rechecked the system via direct connection to the mains and Tune Dem was worse - the music sounded slightly disjointed and chaotic by comparrison - piano notes sounded out of time. This has already be discussed on another thread, so I'll say no more.
I also rechecked the connection order within the mains block. Starting nearest the blocks mains lead, the existing order of Lingo, Pre amp, Power amp had better Tune Dem. Whereas, Power Amp, Pre Amp, Lingo was just a bit weird! It was possibly clearer sounding but the music stopped making sense - it was just a collection of sounds by comparison. There was also a slight perception of more pace, so perhaps that's why Naimies like it this way round.
I tried about half a dozen blocks. The best was the cheapest as Fredrik suggested. Just £2 from Woolworths - their own branded 'MasterPlug' model with a 1m lead. It had the best Tune Dem and seemed to make most sense of the music.
The proper MasterPlug version was everywhere and costs £5. I got the one with 3m lead, but preferred the Woolworths 1m length version by a fraction. Next was the smj electrical 'trailing socket' from Robert Dyas and very hard to separate from the other two.
Less good was the MasterPlug heavy duty model from Focus. I didn't buy any with surge protection, but this model has 'Safety Shutters' whatever that means. Tune Dem was the worst, but more obvious was that it just sounded constrained - the music was missing some power. Just to reiterate, the difference from best to worst was small and very hard to distinguish at times.
I will replace the mains lead with a Linn lead at some point, but don't have a spare at the moment. That will also require some soldering, so could be interesting (I'm not good at that sort of thing!) Rgds Charlie.
Bought and tested a few mains blocks today. My first conclusion is that endlessly powering on/off/on/off your hi-fi can get a little bit tedious after a while! :evil:
Secondly, the differences between blocks was very subtle. More signifcant was the fact that a mains block was being used in the first place. I briefly rechecked the system via direct connection to the mains and Tune Dem was worse - the music sounded slightly disjointed and chaotic by comparrison - piano notes sounded out of time. This has already be discussed on another thread, so I'll say no more.
I also rechecked the connection order within the mains block. Starting nearest the blocks mains lead, the existing order of Lingo, Pre amp, Power amp had better Tune Dem. Whereas, Power Amp, Pre Amp, Lingo was just a bit weird! It was possibly clearer sounding but the music stopped making sense - it was just a collection of sounds by comparison. There was also a slight perception of more pace, so perhaps that's why Naimies like it this way round.
I tried about half a dozen blocks. The best was the cheapest as Fredrik suggested. Just £2 from Woolworths - their own branded 'MasterPlug' model with a 1m lead. It had the best Tune Dem and seemed to make most sense of the music.
The proper MasterPlug version was everywhere and costs £5. I got the one with 3m lead, but preferred the Woolworths 1m length version by a fraction. Next was the smj electrical 'trailing socket' from Robert Dyas and very hard to separate from the other two.
Less good was the MasterPlug heavy duty model from Focus. I didn't buy any with surge protection, but this model has 'Safety Shutters' whatever that means. Tune Dem was the worst, but more obvious was that it just sounded constrained - the music was missing some power. Just to reiterate, the difference from best to worst was small and very hard to distinguish at times.
I will replace the mains lead with a Linn lead at some point, but don't have a spare at the moment. That will also require some soldering, so could be interesting (I'm not good at that sort of thing!) Rgds Charlie.
I haven't posted to this thread so far as I'm in the US and can't give direct experience on the power connections in the UK. On the general points I agree with Fredrik and zeedje - avoid anything with surge suppression. My experience has been that the fewer connections that the AC has to go through the better. All the best power strips I have used have no switches, no circuit breakers and no fuses, just wiring between the wall and the outlets.
Although in general I agree that the cheaper often outperform the more expensive I have found a unit that outperforms anything I've heard which isn't real cheap. It is made by a company called CablePro and is their Revelation II model which runs $350US. They also make another model at the same price for Naim USA but it is not as good. It has a replaceable AC cable and definitely sounds better with one of the better Linn AC cords plugged into it. Another unit that is good but not quite as good as the CablePro is a Wiremold unit that is sold by several Naim dealers for $50US. It is a definite step better than the better of the cheap ones I have tried. Both of these units forego the switch and circuit breaker combination that is common to US power strips. The Revelation II has 8 outlets and the Wiremold has 9. Both also feature aluminum enclosures which may help the sound as I have heard from a number of people in the business who feel that steel should be avoided although I have not confirmed this personally.
A dedicated spur is likely to help. I ran a dedicated line to my system and it definitely improved things. The UK wiring system is different from that in the US so I'm not sure how big the differences would be there. As to the improvement at night I'm afraid that is typical almost everywhere as the load on the lines is generally much lower then. If you can arrange to cut the power to your neighbors for several kilometers during the day I believe you could cure that problem. :)
Although in general I agree that the cheaper often outperform the more expensive I have found a unit that outperforms anything I've heard which isn't real cheap. It is made by a company called CablePro and is their Revelation II model which runs $350US. They also make another model at the same price for Naim USA but it is not as good. It has a replaceable AC cable and definitely sounds better with one of the better Linn AC cords plugged into it. Another unit that is good but not quite as good as the CablePro is a Wiremold unit that is sold by several Naim dealers for $50US. It is a definite step better than the better of the cheap ones I have tried. Both of these units forego the switch and circuit breaker combination that is common to US power strips. The Revelation II has 8 outlets and the Wiremold has 9. Both also feature aluminum enclosures which may help the sound as I have heard from a number of people in the business who feel that steel should be avoided although I have not confirmed this personally.
A dedicated spur is likely to help. I ran a dedicated line to my system and it definitely improved things. The UK wiring system is different from that in the US so I'm not sure how big the differences would be there. As to the improvement at night I'm afraid that is typical almost everywhere as the load on the lines is generally much lower then. If you can arrange to cut the power to your neighbors for several kilometers during the day I believe you could cure that problem. :)
Thanks Thomas - as helpful as always. I suppose I could buy some US Linn mains leads and a US block like the CablePro. I'd then be rid of the fuses within my existing Linn cables at least. I'll probably leave it as something to come back to when funds permit. I've really enjoyed picking up tips on the forum such as using an extension block instead of just mains sockets because it's been a really cheap upgrade and well worth the effort. Once it starts getting more expensive, it makes it harder to just try things out - you really have to commit to the change and be sure that's it going to be a move in the right direction.
I was looking at mains related tweaks on the internet last night and found an interesting site: http://www.acoustica.org.uk/
They suggest that a dedicated earth rod can provide as much benefit as a mains spur. Has anyone any experience of this? Again, not something I could afford to do now, but whilst we're on the subject it could be useful to know about for the future....
I was looking at mains related tweaks on the internet last night and found an interesting site: http://www.acoustica.org.uk/
They suggest that a dedicated earth rod can provide as much benefit as a mains spur. Has anyone any experience of this? Again, not something I could afford to do now, but whilst we're on the subject it could be useful to know about for the future....
Hi all,I went to woolies(that place is weird) to grab a couple of their blocks, and Charlie is correct they are very good,although I am tempted to change the plugs, or would that be a bad idea?I played a Bill Evans and I got a feeling he was trying to play the keys more softly with the £2 jobs,amazing.Live broadcasts on the Kremlin sound more dramatic and compelling.The AKiva tracks better towards the end of Lps . Music makes much more sense.It's all gone a bit full circle.I remember with my first set up I decided to plug my rega and 3020 straight into the wall with a cube adapter great bass and treble but the music was all over the place,couldn't follow it so I went back to the cheap plastic job which sounded really good. I started reading hi-fi magazines and it was downhill from then on. If business is good next week I might even buy one for the shop system.
Thanks for doing all the donkey work Charlie.
Leo
Thanks for doing all the donkey work Charlie.
Leo
I know that tune
Hi Leo, really glad to read your post, not just because I'm pleased your 200 pence was well spent, but because I've recently added a Linto to my system and, in my excitment, I just plugged it straight into the last free socket in the mains block. The Linto is proving to be a real performance boost, but there was one area in which it was not up with the phono board in the Majik Kontrol. The Linto is more tuneful, especially the bass, but it was somehow not as effortless. Anyway, after reading your post, I promptly changed the order on the mains block and 'hey-presto', it all began to flow as freely as before.
I did very briefly try an RS plug on the mains block and couldn't hear much difference, but I was running short on time. I would recommend checking that the fuse is the best way around. Mine already was, but you wouldn't want it the other way - it sounded slightly cloudy and weak plus Tune Dem was worse.
I agree, Woolies is very weird - I always want to get out as soon as possibe!
Hi-Fi magazines are written by very bad people. Mind you, I still buy Hi-Fi World each month!
I did very briefly try an RS plug on the mains block and couldn't hear much difference, but I was running short on time. I would recommend checking that the fuse is the best way around. Mine already was, but you wouldn't want it the other way - it sounded slightly cloudy and weak plus Tune Dem was worse.
I agree, Woolies is very weird - I always want to get out as soon as possibe!
Hi-Fi magazines are written by very bad people
. Mind you, I still buy Hi-Fi World each month!