DS to /2 upgrade

[Music Lover]

Linn going to offer an upgrade to DS-players to become Exakt-ready.

Currently we have, if I got it correct:
DS/1 with analog out and digital volume control, without Exakt link
Exakt DSM with Exakt link, without analog out
The combination DSM/1 with Exakt link, analog in/out, HDMI in/out, ADC (for analog inputs) and a pre

The interesting stuff is that apparently Linn enhanced the motherboard in DSM/1. Have missed that!
So upgrading a current DS/1 to DS/2 get you a better(?) performance.

DS/2 likely going to have analog out, Exakt Link and digital volume control.

So...anybody compared analog out from KDSM/1 (or KDS/2)with a KDS/1 ?
It it worthwhile upgrading if you intend staying "non-Exakt" ??

[ThomasOK]

I believe Anthony has reported, or at least hinted, that he found the KDSM/1 to be superior to KDS/1. It appears that some improvements in the clocking and other circuitry were incorporated into the KDSM/1 along with the ExaktLink outlets. The KDS/2 is incorporating these improvements along with the ExaktLink outputs so should perform better out of the analog outputs as well.

The same should be true for the ADS/2 and possibly MDS/1 as well, both of which will also have ExaktLink outputs along with analog.

How it all performs musically remains to be seen but based on the experience of Anthony there is reason to be hopeful.

[stefan]

All details here:
http://linnhifi.blogspot.se/2015/03/lin ... f-our.html
No doubt it will be better, remains to see(hear) if it's the level of ADS/KDS 0->1. For sure it will bring us more KRDS/1 and that's a good thing. No priceinfo, the same or increased for a new /2 ?

[tokenbrit]

Interesting - for a short, short while there I could enjoy my newly acquired KRDS/1 sounding even sweeter in the knowledge that this was essentially the best digital streamer available* for an analogue system... Now Linn come out with a KDS/2 - good news for those waiting for more KRDS/1s coming on to the market. It will be interesting to hear what 'analogue ears' make of KDS/2 vs KDS/1

* I know the KDS/1 is available, but not 'available within my budget' - the Klimax Renew DSs are 'the best' :) I guess I need to start saving for the KRDS/2 ;)

[Music Lover]

I believe Anthony has reported, or at least hinted, that he found the KDSM/1 to be superior to KDS/1.

The earth calling Anthony :)

I like an estimation of the enhancements please.
Is it like ADS to KDS? Or half of that...
Is it purely a musical enhancement or also improving the sound?

[anthony]

I believe Anthony has reported, or at least hinted, that he found the KDSM/1 to be superior to KDS/1.

The earth calling Anthony :)

I like an estimation of the enhancements please.
Is it like ADS to KDS? Or half of that...
Is it purely a musical enhancement or also improving the sound?

I can only comment on findings to date. From experiments tried....

KDSM1 internal volume turned off outperforms a KDS1 into KK or SAgatun, indicating the DS section is better in KDSM1

I prefer KK + KDS1 to KDSM0
I prefer KDSM1 to KK + KDS1

[macrotech2]

... And KDSM/1 into Sagatun Mono was even better!

[jlrchrds]

I don't post much on here, but tend read the forum and generally find it more vibrant (and honest) than Linn's currently. I can only tell you this. My KDSM/1 does not sound nearly as good in the analog world as a KDS/1 into a KK/1. The digital volume control on KDSM/1 provides an inferior sound by far. I converted my former KDS/1 in the interests of going Exakt that was the only reason why... it sure wasn't sound; I still needed an analog output at the Klimax level and was committed to trying Exakt. Surprisingly (thank goodness), the digital volume issues disappeared with my Exakt 212 system. So in the Linn universe it seems that eliminating Phase distortion trumps the use of the digital volume. If I would have been forced to stick with the KDSM/1 as an analog digital streamer, I would have auditioned sagatun monos and either purchased those or a used KK/1. I trust several of the folks with opinions stating that the KDSM/1 run through a preamp sounds better than a KDS/1. That said, I strongly recommend some serious listening sessions before assuming Linn ds/2 upgrades smash the current line. Are they better, ummm probably, but I question if it's worth the losses incurred with upgrading and reselling gear.

[anthony]

I don't post much on here, but tend read the forum and generally find it more vibrant (and honest) than Linn's currently. I can only tell you this. My KDSM/1 does not sound nearly as good in the analog world as a KDS/1 into a KK/1. The digital volume control on KDSM/1 provides an inferior sound by far. I converted my former KDS/1 in the interests of going Exakt that was the only reason why... it sure wasn't sound; I still needed an analog output at the Klimax level and was committed to trying Exakt. Surprisingly (thank goodness), the digital volume issues disappeared with my Exakt 212 system. So in the Linn universe it seems that eliminating Phase distortion trumps the use of the digital volume. If I would have been forced to stick with the KDSM/1 as an analog digital streamer, I would have auditioned sagatun monos and either purchased those or a used KK/1. I trust several of the folks with opinions stating that the KDSM/1 run through a preamp sounds better than a KDS/1. That said, I strongly recommend some serious listening sessions before assuming Linn ds/2 upgrades smash the current line. Are they better, ummm probably, but I question if it's worth the losses incurred with upgrading and reselling gear.

Maybe other things at play, two customers were uneasy for about one month, but on comparing after run in to kk kds said they now prefered kdsm1, many others prefered it straight away.
Perhaps yours wasn't performing optimally? Or maybe it just did not suit your tastes.

[jlrchrds]

Anthony. It's possible that something wasn't setup correctly and it does all come down to taste for sure. I did have the HDMI outputs turned off however. In the end, as an analog piece, something was definitely missing for me.Jeff

[Music Lover]

Got my KDS/2 six days ago. (yeah that is the text on the box)
As always it's playing music 24/7.

The burn-in has been frustrating as always but yesterday it was rather good for the first time. Even better today!
It's the 3rd upgrade to my 2007 model and apparently these units need some time to really perform.

Nice musical flow but two items stand out.
- Voices are more natural (as in real life) and you better understand the intentions. Singers previously considered being good, suddenly are great.
- Harmonies in the music is more in-tune. Guess that is the main reason voices are better now.

Not using harmonies performing Tune Dem evaluations, as I find that less easy.
But the KDS/2 really do this better!

Still a bit dynamically restricted and stiff but the flow is there.
Davaar 25 was installed by Linn but going to upgrade to a better firmware - I'll start with 4.12.357 (previous used in KDS/1)
And it's going to be torqued.
Expect a report in about some weeks, Stay in tune :)

[rowlandhills]

Davaar 25 was installed by Linn but going to upgrade to a better firmware - I'll start with 4.12.357 (previous used in KDS/1)

You may struggle with that. Release notes for Davaar 25 (4.25.1134) say:

Initial release for Klimax DS/2, Akurate DS/2, Majik DS/1 and Majik DSM/2.

You can't normally flash back to an earlier version than the first supported.

[Music Lover]

You can't normally flash back to an earlier version than the first supported.

This is REALLY bad news!
Anyone tried this on any DS, new or older?
What happens if you try?

[rowlandhills]

I haven't tried. I would expect it to give an "Invalid firmware" error or something, similar to what happens if you try to put ADS firmware onto a KDS, or KDS/1 firmware on a KDS/0.

[tokenbrit]

Wonder if it's like the KRDS/1 and trying to use firmware earlier than Davaar 19 - in that case the warning from Linn is that the DS "will not boot"

[Music Lover]

And what do you have to do then?
Reinstall correct FW or using fall back?

[tokenbrit]

I don't know & wouldn't like to guess for someone else's new DS/2 - personally, I'd leave it on 25 upwards unless someone knows otherwise

[DelNaja]

Music Lover, thank you for reporting on this upgrade! I appreciate it and am thinking of upgrading too.

Regarding firmware compatibility, why not ask Linn about it directly?

[pidge22]

You can't normally flash back to an earlier version than the first supported.

This is REALLY bad news!
Anyone tried this on any DS, new or older?
What happens if you try?

I have often gone backwards & forwards on firmware releases...before SPACE 4.12.357 was my favorite...I have a DS/1 here is where old firmware releases can be found

http://products.linn.co.uk/VersionInfo/ ... /Releases/

[donuk]

Has anybody yet compared the internal volume control on, say, the new ADS/2 against the ADS/1
I much prefer running my ADS/1 through my Linn Majik preamp in preference to its internal volume control.
With the new board will this be better? Will I not need my Majik Preamp?

Yes, I will be home auditioning in due course, but has anybody got any experience of this yet?

Don, beautiful downtown York

[Ozzzy189]

I'm not sure don, maybe the ads2 will be better than the majik, but compared to an ak, kk or sagatun I'd say it's definitely going to still be inferior. Just an educated guess however.
Hope you're well and still OK to pop over soon, it's almost time!

[u252agz]

Had the KDS/2 for a few days now and hooked up to the Tundra Mono 2s and Sagatun Monos.

Only comparing KDS1/TM1 combination with KDS2/TM2 here as TM2s arrived when KDS was with Linn.


After the first few hours of KDS2 , when the sound was a little bright /harsh, it is settling into its rhythm and is sounding better by the day.

Even at 20 - 30 hours , much, much better than KDS1 / TM1 - all parameters significantly improved.

Flow is better ( was already extremely good) and bass is just fantastic.

Most impressive though is the massive improvement in the subtle parts of the music - the quiet and delicate bits. I suspect that this is a major contribution to the character and nuances of vocals which, along with the bass, are just sublime. The quiet parts of the music are just pin drop silent - just great.

If it continues to improve as Anthony says it will - I will be even happier.

Always tricky going ahead with upgrades without listening first, but both TM2 and KDS2 seem like excellent products and well worth the expense.

[stefan]

Has anybody yet compared the internal volume control on, say, the new ADS/2 against the ADS/1
...

Yes I have, yesterday evening. Big difference really! What I would like to have done is to compare them with a good preamp. But that we didn't do. No doubt you can live with (or actually even prefer) ADS/2 directly to poweramps than to a Majik Kontrol but I suspect the best preamps (Sagatuns and KK) still would improve on the ADS/2 internal volume control. All speculations of course as it remains hear it.

I reckon ADS/2 and the latest ADSM (/1?) should perform on equal level now. Might be worth to upgrade to DSM instead for the digital inputs and (a good) phono stage. You never know, It's not that much more.

Also of interest is of course how ADS/2 and KRDS/1 compare. Don't take for granted that KRDS/1 will win until you heard it.

[yellowelans4]

Notes on first month with KDS/2:

Out of the box IMO it was clear that this was more than a trivial update to the KDS/1 there is more information, more nuance, more insight essentially more music - it was and is very easy to recommend the upgrade to anyone who is trying to make the decision. Has it got better? - clearly yes - some part by burn in and some part by understanding the improvement in the KDS/2, the /1 is a very fine DS but the /2 is better in ways that allow you to understand, enjoy and appreciate music more, complex passages difficult lyrics are opened up - makes you go back to archived music rarely selected and try again usually resulting in a big smile.

For those considering the digital volume control - Chris (Hidden Systems) was encouraging me to try it out I don't use it due to my system being analogue only via a KK-Solos-350P. So as an experiment I went from the /2 direct to solos and IMO it was clearly worse. I could not find one aspect of the presentation that matched the analogue standard that I was by now used to, one of the most significant issues for me was there was clearly a loss of information vs analogue, the increased insight of the /2 was now mostly gone. Listening volumes were about 52 for both analogue and digital sessions so not the best for digital but I am not going to defend the digital result - for me - analogue KDS/2 is easily the winner.

[Charlie1]

Thanks for posting Yellowelans4 - interesting to read your experiences and glad you're enjoying it so much. Sounds like a really solid source first upgrade. I've had similar experiences judging by the way you describe it, particularly source upgrades that didn't improve the sound quality hugely, but did improve the musicality a lot, like Ekos SE. I recall the SE took me a little while to get my bearings and understand what had changed. Of course, some tracks stood out straight away and were just plain more fun, more emotive etc.

Quick question for you cos I'm always interested in the Source First topic. Do you think KDS/2 direct into Solos is better than KDS/1 into KK? In theory, I'd expect the KDS/2 to be better because the source element is better, but a theory are not the same as listening yourself and maybe the digital pre-amp just makes it so much harder to dial into and appreciate. Maybe KDS/2 into Solos is better at tune dem, but somehow less accessible? What are your thoughts?