Best sounding LAN cable for DS

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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lejonklou
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Post by lejonklou »

True, I have not seen any either.

The Klimax DS also comes with a pair of unbalanced Silver interconnects, but so far I prefer the balanced connection when used with the Kontrol.
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Post by Json »

Thanks for the replies!

I use Apple routers, one Airport Extreme (gigabit) and one Time Capsule. Apple recommend shielded cables and the units seem to have shielded connectors for the ethernet cables, but the power cables are not grounded.

But the NAS, DS and all the computers connected have grounded power cables.

Oh well, I suppose I will just have to try. On one hand it's interesting to try to get the best possible result from the equipment, on the other it is becoming a bit tiresome. I wouldn't mind a future where things like ethernet cables or power cables had as little impact on the system as possible....

Fredrik, you say you prefer balanced interconnects with the Kontrol. Have you had a chance to try with a Kisto?
Otherwise I suppose I could borrow a pair of balanced cables form my dealer and try it myself. :)
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Post by blom »

lejonklou wrote:...so far I prefer the balanced connection when used with the Kontrol.
Would you say this applies to the Akurate DS as well? When my mind has adjusted to the DS I will test this as well, but for now I'm sticking with using the unbalanced. It's a bit overwhelming still; think I'll have to give both myself and the gear some more time before tweaking. Somehow though, I suspect there is room for a retune as well :?
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Post by lejonklou »

I have not tried balanced from Klimax DS to Kisto, but my guess (guess!) is that the result is similar to what you get with Klimax Kontrol.

I have not yet compared balanced with unbalanced from the Akurate DS. I think that one simply has to try each combination to see which type of signal transmission works best in that specific case.

The reason I say that, is that I prefer unbalanced over balanced between all Linn CD players and Klimax Kontrol. The Klimax DS is the first case where I have thought that balanced sounds both more impressive and more involving with better Tune Dem.

The reason might be the transformer based output of the Klimax DS, where the balanced output circuit is no more complex than the unbalanced one is. The Akurate DS does not have the same output stage and will therefore need a separate evaluation. I'll be very interested to read what you people think when you've tried it!

[Please note that balanced almost always sounds more dynamic and impressive, but evaluated with the Tune Method the result is not always that the music is easier to follow and understand.]
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Post by sommerfee »

Music Lover wrote: Do you have the names of the switches?
Linksys WRT54GL "Wireless Broadband Router"
Netgear FWG114P "Wireless Firewall/Print Server"
Netgear FS105 switch

The Linksys was worst regarding tune-dem -- used to the Netgear FWG114P I could not hold it for very long. Furthermore information in the music was missing. Although the difference was not "worlds apart" I was shocked by the amount of the difference since I was not prepared for that result.

The Netgear FWG114P is very good, but lacked a little bit in tonality: It was a little bit too bright.

The Netgear FS105 was just ok on both, tune-dem and tonality.

So at the moment I use the FS105 as switch, and the FWG114P as DHCP server and WLAN access point. Using this configuration, the FWG114P does not seem to "disturb", when I unplug it (after selecting a play list), nothing changes regarding tune-dem and sound.

(Please don't tell the man in white clothes :mrgreen: )
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Post by JohnS »

Hi Sommerfee,
Just a thought, but we've both had lower results going via home wireless routers. Do you think it's the quality of these switches/routers, or could it be the wireless transmitter within causing noise/interference?
I'm not sure how to test or validate the idea, unless someone finds a home wireless router that works well?
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Post by Music Lover »

Sorry to bring the bad news that kill your theory but I tested both FS105 and a Zyxel wireless router/switch and the latter is the best.
DISCLAIMER the system had just been in operation for a day when the tests were made so I get back in some weeks with a follow up.

To my ears - different switches have bigger impact on tune/sound than LANcables.
Power cord phase on the LAN equipment (including NAS) also have an impact.
Do you have same conclusions?


Also, got the opportunity to test a Klimax DS/Kontrol and played with the RS232 cable. Slightly better tune when removed. :|
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by JohnS »

Yes, I've found the switch more important than the cables, although both make a difference. I found that my Netgear GS105 switch was better than my Netgear DG834 wireless router. I also found a small difference between two network interfaces on the same PC when connected directly to the DS without a switch. I think NIC's must put some unwanted RFI noise onto the cable, maybe some are 'cleaner' than others.

I wish the DS wasn't effected by this and could isolate/remove it, as I'd love a server in the basement and the DS in my music room as part of my general home network without worry about the network architecture, but for now they'll be next to each other with a direct shielded cable and either a switch to the rest of the network or two bridged NIC's.
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Post by sommerfee »

Music Lover wrote: To my ears - different switches have bigger impact on tune/sound than LANcables.
Power cord phase on the LAN equipment (including NAS) also have an impact.
Do you have same conclusions?
Yes, I can confirm that.
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Post by sommerfee »

Instead of trying 100 switches, maybe a better approach is to look what switch Linn Glasgow uses for their DS demos!? Does anybody know that?
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Post by Music Lover »

sommerfee wrote:Instead of trying 100 switches, maybe a better approach is to look what switch Linn Glasgow uses for their DS demos!? Does anybody know that?
Visited three different dealers where Linn demoed DS, they use the LAN architecture and the DS in the shop.
Great if Linn provided the "BEST" architecture possible but I think Linn avoid mention sound quality differences eliminating difficult questions.

And we have to remember...the DS sound just great regardless.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by sommerfee »

I tried some different (shielded) patch cables over the last weeks, but always got the impression that I was only walking sideways, not forward. All of the cables had their pros and cons in sound issues, and were quite on par regarding tune-dem. But now I had found a cable which is different and at least in my ears a real step forward. Although I'm used to all these differences, I'm really enthusiastic about this particular cable and it gives me the strong feeling the search is finally over. It's performing excellent regarding tune-dem, and gives a quiet & colourful sound, full of details never heard before. The cable is:

APC enhanced CAT.6 SFTP patch cable:
"RJ-45M to RJ-45M with mold snagless boots 568B wired, 4 pair, 24AWG stranded wire blue PVC jacket, 50" gold contacts, UL verified category 6 components."

It's available in different colours and lengths and costs about 10 Euros. The product code of the blue variant, 2m, is 47322BL-2M-E.
It should be connected with print direction "NAS to DS", and should be used for both, NAS to switch and switch to DS.
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Post by lejonklou »

Thank you Axel! Great work!

I will try this cable asap.
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Post by sommerfee »

Unfortunately the sonic result seems not only dependant on the NAS/switch you use, but to the firmware as well. :shock: It seems that "Auskerry" gives different "best" equipment than "Bute", at least an Auskerry Sneaky DS is doing better in terms of tune-dem than a Bute Klimax DS at my current configuration :shock:

I'll do some tests in the next weeks and report... (in the hope I will not get completely nuts!)

P.S.: Denon has already released its own LAN cable.
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Post by Music Lover »

Is that really possible? :shock:
You are 100% sure...
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by Azazello »

:shock: :| :lol:

And I thought that my LP12 was a pain to set up...
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Post by cremona »

My sneaky sounds different everytime i listens to it .
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Post by sommerfee »

Music Lover wrote:Is that really possible? :shock:
You are 100% sure...
100% sure about the result? Yes, I triple-checked this.

100% sure about the status of my brain? No, not at all! :lol:
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Post by lejonklou »

sommerfee wrote:...an Auskerry Sneaky DS is doing better in terms of tune-dem than a Bute Klimax DS at my current configuration :shock:
That sounds very strange... I'd suspect there's something wrong somewhere!

Please keep us posted!
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Post by Music Lover »

cremona wrote:My sneaky sounds different everytime i listens to it .
Yes, but you are still running it in I assume so that is normal.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by cremona »

Music Lover wrote:
cremona wrote:My sneaky sounds different everytime i listens to it .
Yes, but you are still running it in I assume so that is normal.
Correct wich is why its even harder comparing gear
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Post by chris_m_brown »

Um...

Working in IT, I have access to a huge array of computing devices and cables. I fully understand the tune dem method and have used it over many years to great effect in positioning speakers and judging the efficacy of various upgrades.

As far as I have found there is no detectable difference in any subjective parameters using different LAN cables or storage devices. The only thing that I have found is that placing huge loads on the network can result in sonic dropouts - no surprise there...

I have also written a 'DS emulator' that directly analyses data as presented to the network interface. Once again, no difference in any measurable parameters in the digital domain until network cable quality drops below a tragic threshold or general network traffic becomes an issue.

A previous poster suggested that they yearned for a tweak free future. My own experience and careful testing suggests that we are there...
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Post by vicdiaz »

Been in IT myself for more than 24 years and I agree with what you found. If there is no difference in the digital domain how can there be any perceived difference in sound/musicality/etc.?

It's really cool that you wrote a DS simulator!!!
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Post by Moomintroll »

Hooray!!!

'Troll

Life's too short, get a DS...
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Post by sommerfee »

sommerfee wrote:
Music Lover wrote:Is that really possible? :shock:
You are 100% sure...
100% sure about the result? Yes, I triple-checked this.
Addendum:
I just reflashed my DS back to Auskerry and I was shocked by the amount on how much better it's now again.

With Bute, my APC patch cables were out-of-tune but it was quite listenable with other cables (from Belkin). Now running Auskerry again I changed them back to the APC ones and again it's clearly better. I really thought the new CD from Alanis Morisette is crap, but with the current config it's really really good!

All this is really strange, any maybe it's possible to get an equal (or even better?) result running Bute, but since my DS is singing again I will not try to find it out but listen to music instead.
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