Best sounding LAN cable for DS

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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ThomasOK
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Post by ThomasOK »

While checking out switches this weekend I also did a little quick cable testing. I tried to order a couple more of the Microconnect White CAT6 SSTP 3m cables and ended up with STP versions by mistake. Since Music Lover hadn't tested them I decided to open one up and try it. My first impression is that it is OK but not in the top class. This had not been burned in at all so I reserve final judgement for when it is fully burned in. But out of the box it was not as musical as the APC SFTP 1m cable and certainly not as musical as the Microconnect 3m SSTP is. Since I found the Microconnect SSTP musically preferable to the APC SFTP when the APC was burned in and the Microconnect was not I expect the STP version will come in third place but I will report back for sure once it has had more time. However, it does seem that double-shielded is the way to go.

Thanks to tokenbrit we now have a source for Microconnect cables in the UK who will ship to the US. Because of this he and I will have a batch of the correct Microconnect White SSTP cables in a few lengths coming in early August (a couple of the lengths we wanted were backordered). So sometime in August I should have the entire network optimally wired. I will also have Deltaco SATA cables for the NAS that Fredrik has sent me by then so I should be pretty fully optimized sometime next month. I'll report on the cables and the source once everything is sorted out.
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Post by ThomasOK »

A quick addendum on the ongoing LAN cable dilemma.

Well, thanks to Tokenbrit I now have a bunch of Microconnect SSTP RJ45 cables. However, these cables are quite different from the ones I got through Fredrik a year or so ago. I don't have the legend on the cable with me (I'll edit this to add it later) but I did take a photo of the two side by side which I am posting here:

Image

The original, which had markings very close to those Music Lover noted, is on the left, the new one is on the right. Although of the same spec, both the wiring itself and the ends are different. These were sold to us as Microconnect cables and were marked with the correct part numbers. Since we had to wait for a couple of lengths that were backordered I don't think it is likely they substituted different cables. Also all the Microconnect cables we ordered (10 in total in lengths from 1m to 10m) looked the same and came in the same packaging.

Since many "manufacturers", especially of computer and accessory products, don't actually manufacture anything this kind of change to items is quite normal. Microconnect finds a better price or more reliable delivery from a different Chinese vendor so they change. Or their vendor of choice goes with a different subcontractor for the same reasons. Either way they end up with a product that meets their specs but can be completely different from the previous version. This kind of change has been obvious in all the different AC cables Linn have provided over the years, all of which have the same basic electrical specs - and Linn tries to stay on top of the quality of these cables to a much higher extent than a lot of cable vendors.

So what does this mean for us? At the moment I honestly can't tell you conclusively. I have a number of RJ45 cables burning in but am not ready to test them yet. I can say that my DS was sounding quite good yesterday with two of the newer cables in place, but as I didn't do comparisons that is hardly a valid evaluation. I do plan to do comparisons within the next couple of weeks when everything has burned in and I will post my findings here. These will also cover more than the Microconnect cables. I have one of the old and one of the new 3m Microconnect cables in White as shown in the photo so I will be able to do a direct comparison of the differences. I also have 2 - 2m of the new so I can compare 2m vs. 3m. I had planned on doing a color comparison between a 10m White and a 10m Blue but as the White is new and the Blue old, that is no longer likely to be valid. But I will still find out which is best and it will connect the GS108T to the Apple Airport Extreme back in the office.

In addition I purchased two 3m of the fancy AudioQuest CAT7 cables - Cinnamon with a 1.25%silver plate on the copper and Vodka with a 10% silver plate. These are $99 and $379 retail respectively so we'll see if they are worth it (I didn't pay that for them). I decided not to test out the $2095 3m Diamond with its 72V battery pack and solid silver conductors quite yet! These are also burning in so I should be able to do quite an interesting cable shootout in a week or two. Watch this space!

Addendum: here is the text off the two cables as promised.

Older Microconnect:

Type CM 24AWG 60 deg C (UL) E188630 CSA LL81295 CMG ETL VERIFIED TIA/E1A-568-B.2-1 CAT6 Patch Cable S-FTP LSZH EVERNEW 9I020902721

This is the same text as on Music Lover's except for the last series of numbers after "EVERNEW" so I would assume probably just a different batch.

Newer Microconnect:

This only says:
CAT6 SSTP PIMF PATCH CORD CABLE TEST TO EIA/TIA 568B 0801

As you can see in the photos the ends are also quite different with red connectors on the new ones and plastic tabs to protect the clip. They also have "3M" embossed on the strain relief. On the older ones the plug is clear and there is nothing embossed on the ends.

So the new versions are quite a bit different - I hope they are as good.
Last edited by ThomasOK on 2013-10-02 20:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by donuk »

If anyone is doing any comparative listening in the UK, do call in your local "Pound" shop. I got a couple of nice sounding Belkin CAT6, 1 metre cables, for, err, £1 each. Worth a try.
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Post by ThomasOK »

“A Tale of 9 Cables and 8 Ports”
Or how to drive your family crazy without really trying!

(OK guys, get ready for a really long post - I haven’t written it yet but I know it will be a long one).

I finally decided this was the weekend and I sat down to do my Ethernet cable comparisons. Since I had 9 cables to compare this was no small undertaking. So for starters here is a list of the cables I tested:

MicroConnect old style 3m White SFTP
MicroConnect old style 3m White STP
MicroConnect new style 2m White SSTP
MicroConnect new style 3m White SSTP
MicroConnect new style 10m White SSTP
APC 3m Blue SSTP
Generic 3m CAT 5e UTP?
AudioQuest Cinnamon 3m CAT7
AudioQuest Vodka 3m CAT7

With the exception of the AudioQuest and generic cables all are CAT6 types.

On to the testing. For music I picked a track that I find very telling that can use a little description. It is “All Souls Night” from “The Visit” by Loreena McKennitt. There is a lot going on musically in this piece and I find the instruments very useful. The tune starts with tamboura. For those not familiar with the tamboura it is a drone instrument most often heard behind sitar, flute or sarod in classical Indian music by the likes of Ali Akbar Khan, Ravi Shankar, etc. As mentioned it is a drone instrument, it has only four strings and is not fretted. In playing it the four notes are strummed in a specific fashion repeatedly in the time of the piece of music being played. In Indian classical it sets the tempo and gives a background drone. While this sounds rather simple the tamboura, when tuned properly and strummed in the correct fashion makes a very harmonically rich and dense sound as the strings buzz off the gently curved bridge to emphasize the harmonics. It is tuned so as to emphasize those harmonics and to give the rich sound you hear as all the strings vibrate together. You can hear this to good effect as it is the first instrument in “All Souls Night” and starts the piece by itself (as is typical in Indian classical pieces). I am explaining this because the tamboura can be a very telling instrument with the careful tuning sounding off on a system that doesn’t play in tune and the harmonic richness requiring a truly musical system to come through properly. But also because I have been playing tamboura (as well as tablas) for about 40 years. I was taught the art by an Indian vocalist who had seen me play tablas and asked me to learn tamboura so I could accompany her for a concert. She taught me the proper way of strumming the strings and how to tune it correctly for the most musical effect. So I am very attuned to how this instrument can “sing” when in true form.

After the tamboura plays a bit a violin comes in followed by balalaika, drums, bass and voice and the rest of the instruments: accordion, cello and electric guitar. It is a hauntingly beautiful piece of music with powerful drums and beautiful vocals as well as the instrumental diversity.

So this is the main piece of music I used to compare the cables, cross-checked here and there with a coupe of other pieces. For those who don’t want to read the whole process I’ll give the rankings up front:

1 MicroConnect new style 3m White SSTP
2 MicroConnect new style 10m White SSTP *basically a tie (but see testing for 10m vs. 2m)
2 MicroConnect new style 2m White SSTP *basically a tie
4 MicroConnect old style 3m White SFTP
5 APC 3m Blue SSTP
6 MicroConnect old style 3m White STP
7 Generic 3m CAT5e UTP?
8 AudioQuest Vodka 3m CAT7
9 AudioQuest Cinnamon 3m CAT7


All these rankings were made with the cables going from the switch (Netgear GS108T-200NAS) to the DS being swapped while the cable from the LS-NAS to the switch was a MicroConnect new style 2m White SSTP. All cables except the Generic Ethernet CAT5e were burned in for at least two weeks. All cables were used in their most musical direction as determined by listening except the AudioQuest (AQ), which come marked for direction. (The Generic cable sounded best against text – all others with text.)

Musically here is what I found:

Starting with the 2m new MicroConnect the system was sounding really quite nice. The tamboura had a natural sound and the whole piece flowed smothly. I did a couple of A/Bs to determine that the correct direction was with text and then put in the new 3m MicroConnect and this was even better: better flow, more emotion, the tamboura really sings. Then the moment I’ve been dreading: I swap in the old 3M MicroConnect which I’m sure will be better since you can’t get them any more. But surprise! They are not as musical as the new MicroConnects. They are certainly musical but the new ones are actually more tuneful carrying the power and emotion of the piece better. What a relief - especially as I only have two of the old MicroConnects and need at least three, and preferably four, for my network. A little more comparison puts the old 3m MicroConnect behind the new 2m one as well.

So lets try some of the high-priced spread. Up first the AQ Vodka CAT7. Well it’s not bad – certainly very “Hi-Fi” sounding. I think people who only listen for differences will like this, as it is very “detailed” making all the instruments seem to come forward at you. But it also seems to pull the music apart making it less of a communicative whole and more a bunch of parts. It reminds me very much of comments Charlie1 has made from time to time about items that let you apparently hear more but are less enjoyable. I try to think of an analogy for this and I think of the sharpening tool in Photoshop but that isn’t quite it. Then a really good analogy hits me: Imagine you are viewing a 16th century painting by a great artist that is being displayed under the light of very bright white fluorescent floodlights aimed at a specific angle. Those floods highlight every brushstroke on the painting making them very obvious. But they make the brushstrokes so prominent that it is hard to enjoy the beauty of the painting without them getting in the way. Now you can certainly argue that the brushstrokes are an important part of the painting but certainly not the most important part. When it was painted this kind of lighting didn’t exist so it certainly wasn’t the intention of the artist for it to be viewed this way. It was painted to be viewed in sunlight, most likely indirect so as not to bleach out the painting, or under the light of candles or oil lamps. With this kind of warmer, more subdued lighting it will reveal its true beauty. The brushstrokes will still be there but they will not be noticed so much as a separate entity but as a subtlety that adds to the overall character of the painting. In this more normal light it is only when looking closely and focusing specifically on the brushstrokes that they will be noticed.

This is what I think happens with much of the Hi-Fi out there. It highlights parts of the music, certain instruments or high-frequencies for example, in a way that makes people say “Wow, I haven’t heard that before.” But it is overemphasizing those elements to the detriment of the whole. It is kind of pulling apart the music and analyzing it rather than letting the beauty and emotion wrap around you and touch you. The fabric is revealed but the beauty is lost. This is what I hear which much highly-touted Hi-Fi and this is what I hear, though to a somewhat lesser extent, with the AQ cables. The Vodkas can be a bit fun with the punch of drums and the more obvious tinkle of cymbals but the flow and beauty of the music is not there and the performance leaves you a bit cold.

The AQ Cinnamon are similar but even worse as they don’t have as much of the detail and sparkle of the Vodka yet they still pull apart the music, removing the emotion, and they make it a bit duller and more congested. They also make the tuning of the tamboura sound even more off than the Vodka.

Now that I’ve tested the main cables I wanted to do I pull in a few more to verify how they rank. The APC is just where I found it to be before – musical but not quite as musical as the old MicroConnect. Then an old style MicroConnect with STP construction (single-shieded) rather than SSTP or SFTP. Not too bad either, certainly a musical step up from the AQs but not as good as the SSTP APC. Just for the heck of it I grab a new 3m generic CAT5e cable labeled “E2581066 (UL) 4PR 24AWG CAT.5e Verified For Gigabit Ethernet ROHS COMPLIANT”. This cable isn’t burned in but I want to just check it for fun. A little quick listening determines it isn’t horrible and that it is best against text. A little more listening puts is a ways behind the old style MicroConnect STP but interestingly still more musical than the AQs. It has less flow and emotion than the MCs and APC and is a bit less clear but it doesn’t pull things apart like the AQs. Finally I grab the MicroConnect new style 10m White SSTP and find this is really quite good. At first it seems quite potent and I think it might be even better than the 3m but direct comparison shows that the 3m is still more musical and brings out more of the emotion of the piece. Some more comparison finds it to be more musical than the 2m version so all three of the new style MicroConnects are pretty close. Hearing this and ranking the 3, 10 and 2m as first, second and third I decide I should get an improvement if I swap the 2m that is going from the NAS to the switch with the 10m. Guess what? I’m wrong! For some reason the 2m going from the NAS to the switch is more musical than the 10m when it was the other way around going from the switch to the DS. I have made sure not to change the ports I use on the switch so there must just be some other synergy with the 2m and 3m in the same path that the 10m and 3m don’t have. I have no other explanation. I suppose at some point, preferably when Debbie is out of the house, I might compare the two apparently identical 2ms and see if there is a difference. But for now the ranking stands as above with the 2m and 10m essentially a tie yet not the same.

This certainly makes me wish I had another new 3m to test but I didn’t get one as I didn’t know these would be different until I got them. It also makes me wonder what 4m and 5m might sound like (but don’t let Debbie know I said this).

You would think with these hours of comparison using the same piece of music I would be done – but you would be WRONG! After all, as long as I’m at it I might as well test all the ports on the switch. Luckily for you I’m not going to go into a bunch of musical descriptions of the different ports as some just sounded more musical, had better flow and carried the message of the music better. First I tested six ports to the DS with the NAS and router connected to the same ports as in the beginning and then I moved them around to test the other two. (By the way, I did some tests with the cable to the router unplugged but didn’t notice a much difference.) Here is what I found: I didn’t care for ports 3 and 6, they just didn’t do it for me musically. 5 was pretty good, 7 better, 1 better yet, 8 really good and 4 the best. So this is the ranking:

1 port 4
2 port 8
3 port 1
4 port 7
5 port 5
6 ports 3 and 6 not worth ranking individually

But there was still more to check and here is where I found the hierarchy still fully in force. The best cable (3m) from NAS to switch and second best (2m) from the switch to the DS was more musical than the other way around and the difference wasn’t that subtle. Also the NAS should be connected to the best port (4) and the DS to the second best port (8) rather than the other way around. So now I had the system as optimally wired as possible: 3m new MicroConnect cable from LS-NAS to port 4 on switch, 2m new MicroConnect cable from switch port 8 to DS and 10m new MicroConnect cable from router to port 1 on switch. But I needed to try one more thing. The Seasonic PS in the LS-NAS is rated for 120 or 240 Volts and I have both. Which would be better. Since I had one outlet open on the power strip that feeds my system (it was even in the source area) I plugged the NAS into that and listened at 240 Volts. Result? Yet another improvement. Interestingly I didn’t feel it made as big an improvement as the right cables and ports made, but it was still a small improvement in musicality and it is free – gotta love those free improvements (unless you are Debbie).

So after conducting tests with the first minute or so of “All Souls Night” for something like four hours what did I do? I listened to the entire piece! Not only was I still able to listen to it after all that but also the system was so good that this lovely piece of music brought a tear to my eye. Imagine a digital source that can convey that much emotion – will wonders ever cease!

Footnote: As I had noticed once before the switch also sounds better on the bottom shelf of my Yggdrasil than it did on top of the LS-NAS where I had it for convenience in testing.
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Post by donuk »

Great stuff Thomas,
Thank you
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Post by lejonklou »

Thank you for a great post, Thomas!

While to some perhaps prohibitively excessive in length, I found your description of how an "analytical" presentation of music can initially impress but leave one unsatisfied to be enlightening and spot on.
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Post by jiddu_k »

Thanks again for another one of your interesting and detailed post, Thomas.

Few weeks ago I did a similar test on switch ports and can confirm your findings.

I use a Netgear GS108T-100 managed switch in my main system which I prefer to FS105/108, GS105 and Digitus BlackRapid 1000. Cables were APC, because I had several identical 2m, 3m and 5m ones at hand. Before I was using a mixture of different length (3-15m) new and old MicroConnect SSTP which I prefered to the APCs.
After checking on cable direction in this new test setup I started to compare different ports. The differences were really amazing - the most obvious to me was "the band playing together vs. falling apart" in different degrees. Some of the ports or better some of the port combinations made a much bigger difference than cable direction and cable type (cross-checked with old 3m MicroConnec SSTP from my normal setup).

As there are too many possible combinations on an 8 port switch I settled for the best combination found.

When I was changing around DS, router and NAS within my three prefered ports I could not improve on the initially found combination. Therefore I'm not sure if it is wise to rate the different ports as best, second best and so forth as it seems to me that the synergy (or lack of it) between each port combination plays a major role.
Last edited by jiddu_k on 2014-02-27 12:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by donuk »

Can I ask a very simple question?

Before unplugging ethernet cables for experimental purposes, is it necessary to power down the switch, NAS and Streamer?

don, sunny downtown York
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Post by Spannko »

Thanks for a great post, Thomas.

I'm just going through a similar process myself. I've had a couple of MicroConnect cables for a while and recently received a third, which is slightly different too. The first two arrived in typical OEM packaging (sealed plastic bag), however the third arrived in what looked like low cost retail packaging (sealed plastic bag with a stapled on cardboard hanger).

I've previously found the MicroConnect to be the best, but with all the controversy surrounding the "sound quality" (or not!) of network cables on the Linn forum at the moment, I thought I'd have another listen. I read somewhere that 80% of network cables don't meet the required spec, so I thought I'd get some Belkin CAT5e UTP cables because they state that they are all checked for conformity. I noticed that they do two types - PVC and ? (they don't specify), so I bought both. I chose UTP because many say it doesn't make a difference, and Linn are using it for the Exakt link (a different application, I know). Also, if the CAT5e's I've heard previously were non-conforming, I might get different results this time.

I briefly plugged one of the Belkin's in between the switch and DS. It took less than 10 seconds for me to realise that it's not in the same league as the MicroConnect. I took it out and haven't had the enthusiasm to compare again! How anybody can say that network components don't affect the sound of a DS is beyond me!

It's going to take a couple of weeks, but I'll report back on a proper listening test between the MicroConnect's, Belkins and some beautifully made German Roline cables I've found. I'll also comment on a FS108/GS108 shootout, with and without case earthing.
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Post by Music Lover »

donuk wrote:Can I ask a very simple question?

Before unplugging ethernet cables for experimental purposes, is it necessary to power down the switch, NAS and Streamer?

don, sunny downtown York
No, not if you are careful avoiding ESD (Electrostatic discharge).
But this applies to everything you do with you HIFI system.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by WIJI »

Following the information in the 'Optimizing your DS' thread elsewhwere on this forum, I ordered a pair of Microconnect Cat 6 SSTP LSZH cables, 1 @ 3m & 1 @ 5m, to go between NAS, switch and DS (in Black, as White was O/S).

Unfortunately they turned out to be dissimilar to the ones tested by other forum posters, insofar as the wording was entirely different. However I was happy to try them, and felt that they did bring a small but nice improvement.

Imagine my surprise when, after reading Thomas's excellent post above, I discovered that the cables I have carry the very same markings as the ones he has now compared favourably to the original Microconnects.

Nice to be ahead of the game :)
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Post by Linnofil »

Thank you Thomas for your posts and all your hard work. It's such a pleasure to be here and be able to test and talk about the digital chain. I have been reading a bit on the Linn forum since the Exakt system was launched and it's all "digital is perfect, accept it and shut up" over there.

I bet you have a pretty impressive DS system now and with your LP12 you need it. It is amazing how much you can get out of those files, isn't it?

I need to buy myself some new M.C. cables and test my ports when I get back home again!
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Post by ThomasOK »

Thanks for all the positive comments. I'm sure Debbie will be pleased with all this encouragement! ;-) I'll try to do further tests when she is out of the house, although I seem to be pretty far along in optimizing the LS-NAS so hopefully not a lot more big A/B sessions.

donuk, I admit I'm pretty cavalier about not shutting equipment down before changing connections (Lejonklou equipment excepted). But Ethernet cabling should be pretty insensitive to plugging and unplugging as long as you ground yourself first. After all, imagine the problems if you had to shut down a whole corporate network every time you plug in a computer. Also, turning off and on a switch is going to have an effect on performance. So I definitely plug and unplug live.

jiddu_k, interesting to get some confirmation on this. I notice I left out port 2 in my ranking. This is because it is where I intially had the NAS connected. I did move the NAS from port 2 to 1 and found an improvement similar to moving the DS from port 5 to 1 so I expect port 2 is low in the ranking overall. I did test the NAS and DS in all possible combinations of ports 1, 4 and 8 (the three best ports) and did find that it always sounded better with the NAS in the better port and it sounded most musical overall with the NAS connected to the best port and the DS to the second best.

That said I do agree there is the possibility of synergy going on here as shown by the connection of 2m MC cable -> 10m (NAS to switch to DS) being better than 2m -> 2m yet 10m -> 3m was not as good as 2m-> 3m which was the most musical combination. So there does seem to be some synergy there. Sometime (when Debbie is out of the house) I will have to try the NAS in all the different ports and see if the ranking remains the same or if there is some special combination that sounds best. Trying all the possible combinations could definitely take some time! But I can certainly see how some specific internal paths might sound better than others rather than it just being the port itself that governs it. There are times when I wish the 0s and 1s contingent were right about there being no differences - but that is not my experience.

Spannko, thanks for yet more confirmation. I look forward to the results of your tests. I haven't tried case earthing on the switch yet so I'll have to add that to the list. While you are doing the FS108/GS108 shootout make sure you swap power supplies and try the different polarities on the AC plugs as I found both to make a difference when I auditioned the switches a while ago.

Thanks Linnofil, while I had played with different Ethernet cables some time ago and found definite differences it was your work on the Super NAS that really got the ball rolling for me on really seeing what I could do on the digital side. I have to say I have never heard digital reproduction as emotionally engaging as it is in my system now with most everything optimized.

That said, I hope you all realize the sacrifice I had to make to spend a day of listening to all these combinations of cables and ports with my stunning Kandid/LP12 sitting there idle! ;-) (I'm sorry, LP12. I won't let it happen again.)
Last edited by ThomasOK on 2014-02-27 18:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by hcl »

Thank you Thomas for your thorough posts!

Linnofil has a point that the over all opinion on the Linn forum is that the digital side does not affect the sound. It does not take much listening to realise that it is not so. I am hopeful that the Exakt systems addresses this to some extent. Some reports suggests that, but also the hype on apparent focus on loudspeaker short comings seems to be quite faar from imåroving the source side of the chain. How people respond to these new stuff and how Linn thinks about it is not the same though. The "source is in the speaker" is just too much of a hype for me. As I see it the source is now spread out over a number of units. If this makes for better music reproduction I am for it. A bit over my budget though :-|

BTW; If You (ThomasOK) are having a bad conscience not using your vinyl rig I would be happy to relieve You of it until You are done fettling with the ugly digital stuff...
Linnofil wrote:Thank you Thomas for your posts and all your hard work. It's such a pleasure to be here and be able to test and talk about the digital chain. I have been reading a bit on the Linn forum since the Exakt system was launched and it's all "digital is perfect, accept it and shut up" over there.
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Post by tokenbrit »

I only have a GS105 (& a ReadyNAS Duo) :/

Is the GS108T (200NAS?) noticeably better that I need to budget for a switch upgrade?

Also, if the 3m is noticeably better than the 2m or 10m, I will have to get another 3m & move the switch into the room with my DS. I'll need a silent NAS too, and use the 5m MC to 'long line' the Netgear GS switch back the router.

I guess digital is not an 'exakt' science yet, after all ;)
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Post by Music Lover »

ThomasOK wrote: For those who don’t want to read the whole process I’ll give the rankings up front:

1 MicroConnect new style 3m White SSTP
2 MicroConnect new style 10m White SSTP *basically a tie (but see testing for 10m vs. 2m)
2 MicroConnect new style 2m White SSTP *basically a tie
4 MicroConnect old style 3m White SFTP
5 APC 3m Blue SSTP
6 MicroConnect old style 3m White STP
7 Generic 3m CAT5e UTP?
8 AudioQuest Vodka 3m CAT7
9 AudioQuest Cinnamon 3m CAT7
Great post Thomas!
What about the cable directions, text from the router or not?

Appreciate if you could specify the complete text on the 2 and 3m new and old 3m MC cables. No 2m old style MC calbe? Pity.
And are there any visible changes on them?
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by WIJI »

With text.
ThomasOK wrote:(The Generic cable sounded best against text – all others with text.)
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Post by Music Lover »

WIJI wrote:With text.
ThomasOK wrote:(The Generic cable sounded best against text – all others with text.)
I know but just checking - What about direction between NAS and router?
Did you check the direction between these units?
If not, please do and report back.
It's all about musical understanding!
tokenbrit
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Post by tokenbrit »

Music Lover wrote:
WIJI wrote:With text.
ThomasOK wrote:(The Generic cable sounded best against text – all others with text.)
I know but just checking - What about direction between NAS and router?
Did you check the direction between these units?
If not, please do and report back.
Wouldn't directionality be an attribute of each cable, individually, rather than what components that cable connects, other than to determine the direction of the signal? Do you have a reason for questioning direction between NAS and router specifically, or are you just trying to get Thomas in trouble (more trouble?) with Debbie?
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Post by lejonklou »

tokenbrit wrote:Wouldn't directionality be an attribute of each cable, individually, rather than what components that cable connects, other than to determine the direction of the signal? Do you have a reason for questioning direction between NAS and router specifically, or are you just trying to get Thomas in trouble (more trouble?) with Debbie?
Music Lover's question makes sense to me. Most of us have a preconceived notion of what "direction" means, but in reality it might not work the way one expects.

What I am saying is that if a cable sounds better 'with text' than it does 'against text' in one application, we tend to explain this to ourselves with a model such as "the signal travels in this direction" or "the current flows this way". But in many cases, there is no definitive direction of the signal or the current. The model is often false, but the difference is still there: It does sound better 'with text' this application.

Move the cable to a second application: Which direction is now the best? You can guess based on your model but unless you've verified it by experience, it's better to try it in practice and see what happens.
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Post by tokenbrit »

lejonklou wrote:
tokenbrit wrote:Wouldn't directionality be an attribute of each cable, individually, rather than what components that cable connects, other than to determine the direction of the signal? Do you have a reason for questioning direction between NAS and router specifically, or are you just trying to get Thomas in trouble (more trouble?) with Debbie?
Music Lover's question makes sense to me. Most of us have a preconceived notion of what "direction" means, but in reality it might not work the way one expects.

What I am saying is that if a cable sounds better 'with text' than it does 'against text' in one application, we tend to explain this to ourselves with a model such as "the signal travels in this direction" or "the current flows this way". But in many cases, there is no definitive direction of the signal or the current. The model is often false, but the difference is still there: It does sound better 'with text' this application.

Move the cable to a second application: Which direction is now the best? You can guess based on your model but unless you've verified it by experience, it's better to try it in practice and see what happens.
On that basis, every connection could have a different optimal length and direction...
I plan to send my 3m & 5m MicroConnects to Thomas so he can test whether the best length is the same between NAS & switch, and between switch & DS, or some different length in different applications.
I was curious if there was any particular reason to query the NAS to router connection specifically, as if this had been found to behave differently...
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Post by ThomasOK »

Music Lover wrote:
WIJI wrote:With text.
ThomasOK wrote:(The Generic cable sounded best against text – all others with text.)
I know but just checking - What about direction between NAS and router?
Did you check the direction between these units?
If not, please do and report back.
Oh, goody! Something else to test! No, I didn't try between the NAS and router so I will have to give it a try. While all network cables handle data traveling in both directions I assumed that, since the musical 1s and 0s went one direction it would be consistent. Have you found this not to be the case?

As to the text on the cables and physical differences, that is all covered in the post I made on 10/1 above so I didn't repeat it in the post on the testing.
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Post by hcl »

ThomasOK wrote:
Music Lover wrote:
WIJI wrote:With text.
I know but just checking - What about direction between NAS and router?
Did you check the direction between these units?
If not, please do and report back.
Oh, goody! Something else to test! No, I didn't try between the NAS and router so I will have to give it a try. While all network cables handle data traveling in both directions I assumed that, since the musical 1s and 0s went one direction it would be consistent. Have you found this not to be the case?

As to the text on the cables and physical differences, that is all covered in the post I made on 10/1 above so I didn't repeat it in the post on the testing.
I too have found that how a cable is oriented has some noticeable impact. Why, I have no real clue? Maybe it is that different connectors fits the female better or worse (mechanically, electrically), maybe its the electrical properties of the cables and the ports that are better or worse matched. Digital connectors are quite bad in this respect so I would not be surprised that this also is a reason. It could be that it has little to do with the transmission of the desired signal and instead that the miss match is maximized for throughput of some significant disturbances from the source network parts (NAS, computers, switch, router,...).
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Post by lejonklou »

tokenbrit wrote:On that basis, every connection could have a different optimal length and direction...
Yes, but experience shows that they don't. You wrote earlier 'Wouldn't directionality be an attribute of each cable, individually' and in my experience this is the case.

What I wanted to question was the theoretical model for directionality. It seems most of you are defining the DS as the target which all digital cables should be directed against. It can just as well be the switch.
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Post by lejonklou »

hcl wrote:I too have found that how a cable is oriented has some noticeable impact. Why, I have no real clue? Maybe it is that different connectors fits the female better or worse (mechanically, electrically)
I have made a lot of experiments with this, inside and outside both analogue and digital circuits. My conclusion is that there are several separate effects:

The cable itself can be directional (some are more than others).
The cable itself has an optimal length.
The particular application benefits from a certain load/length of cable.
Joints and connectors vary and have a level of quality in themselves.
Connectors vary and can have a better or worse match with other connectors.
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