Akurate/Klimax DS FAQ!?

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2008-03-11 21:43

I don't know if there is already a FAQ around, but because of the complexity of the topic it would be useful!?

Maybe this could be taken for a start:

--- Snip ---

What is a DS, how does it work?

The DS (=Digital Source) is not so different to a usual CD player, but with an "outsourced" control panel and an "outsourced" media drive. These three parts, DS, control panel and media drive, will be connected via network stuff. The advantage of this is great flexibility: The DS is not dependent on build-in drives or specific media anymore, furthermore a lot of hardware can be used for the "outsourced drive" or "control panel". For example the "control panel" part can be run on an ordinary PC, but on a handheld as well, giving you a very comfortable remote control.

So instead of inserting CDs, you select the CD with the "control panel" software. Afterwards you can use the ordinary Linn remote to skip tracks, use fast forward etc., but the "control panel" software as well.

What do I need?

Since the Akurate/Klimax DS is a so called "UPnP Audio Media Renderer" device, you need an "UPnP A/V Media Server" (responsible for holding and serving the audio files to the DS) and an "UPnP A/V Control Point" device (responsible for controlling the system, remote control) additionally to make the whole UPnP Audio system complete.

This answer may sound fuzzy, but in fact the "real" requirements (NAS? network router? network switch? cables?) depend on your personal needs: Do I need a NAS or do I want to use the PC as server where the music data will be stored? Do I need a wireless Control Point device as remote, or do I want to use the PC for controlling the DS as well? Please don't despair, I will give some "real world" examples later on.

What is UPnP?

UPnP (=Universal Plug and Play) is a network protocol which is capable of managing many devices on the internet, for example network printers, but (of course) also devices responsible for serving or playing music files. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPnP

Don't worry, you don't have to understand what UPnP is or how it works, you just need to know that the software you are using as server and (remote) control have to be UPnP complaint, so all three parts (server, control, and your DS) are talking the same language.

What UPnP A/V Media Server should I buy?

Twonky Media is the UPnP server software which Linn recommends, so using a PC or NAS (=Network Attached Storage) where this software can or is already running at. For a list see http://www.twonkyvision.de

Of course other UPnP server software will usually work fine, too, but you should take care that it fully supports the FLAC file format, for example MediaTomb does this, see http://mediatomb.cc/.

What is a NAS server?

NAS stands for Network-Attached Storage and is simply one (or more) hard disc with a network interface. Some NAS server offers RAID5, which means that the data will be stored in a redundant form, spitted over many hard discs, so a defect of a single hard disc does not make any harm to the data at all - the defect hard disc can be replaced without any data loss. As alternative to this you could use a NAS with only one single hard disc (this will be quieter and less power consuming than a one with many hard discs), and do backups from time-to-time to another hard disc or NAS. Or you don't backup your music data at all, which means you have to rip your CDs again after a hard disc failture.

Many NAS server comes with pre-installed TwonkyMedia, see http://www.twonkymedia.com for a list.

What UPnP Control Point should I buy?

There a many possibilities: For example you could use a Windows PC running the LinnGUI software. Or an Nokia 770/N800/N810 running the Nokia Media Streamer software. Or... All these different applications have their own strongs and weaks, so it is difficult to answer this question in general. Maybe http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=242 could help you finding the right one for your needs.

At the moment only the LinnGUI software offered by Linn, and Leia DS are using the full capabilities of the DS and are able to play the tracks without annoying short gap between them. But the list will hopefully grow in the future.

Something else?

The DS needs an IP address, which is given to it from a so called DHCP server. (When switched on, the DS will show a blinking dot until this need is fulfilled, afterwards the display changes to the Linn logo.) Many NAS devices and network routers have a build-in DHCP server, but you can use software on your PC as well. (See also
http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=242)

What is an IP address? What is a network switch? What is a WLAN? What is a WLAN access point? (etc.)

You'll find many explanations on the internet, e.g. in Wikipedia (www.wikipedia.org) I also find the appendixes B and E of the Netgear FWG114 reference manual quite useful, you'll find this manual here: http://kbserver.netgear.com/products/fwg114pv2.asp

Examples?

#1:
- A PC or laptop running Windows XP with Twonky Media, a DHCP server software, and the Linn GUI
- A so called crossover network cable to directly connect the PC with the DS, without router or switch

#2:
- A NAS running Twonky Media, with build-in DHCP server and WLAN access point (e.g. from Intradisk)
- A crossover network cable to connect the NAS with the DS
- A WLAN capable control device, e.g. a Samsung Q1 or Nokia 770/N800/N810

#3:
- A NAS running Twonky Media (e.g. from Synology or QNAP or ...)
- A combo product which contains a WLAN access point, a network switch and a DHCP server, often labeled as "WLAN router" (Note: We don't use the router part of the product here.)
- Two so called patch cables, one to connect the DS to the router, the other to connect the NAS to the router
- A WLAN capable control device, e.g. a Samsung Q1 or Nokia 770/N800/N810

#4:
- A NAS running Twonky Media, with build-in DHCP server
- A network switch
- A network WLAN access point
- Three patch cables for connecting NAS, WLAN access point, and DS to the network switch
- A WLAN capable control device, e.g. a Samsung Q1 or Nokia 770/N800/N810

--- Snap ---

Comments? Questions? Additions?

DigitalSources · Post by **DigitalSources** » 2008-03-12 19:24

Sommerfee,

thank you for this comprehensive set of information. Would you mind if I copy it onto www.digitalsources.info?

Thanks,
Andreas

DigitalSources.de
... everthing for your digital music collection

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2008-03-12 20:37

Hi Andreas,

A FAQ only makes sense if it will be revised & improved, and hopefully additions will be posted from others (and me) in this thread. So in my eyes it makes no sense to copy it, but spread links to it instead.

Axel

Post by **lejonklou** » 2008-03-13 15:50

Excellent initiative, Axel!

If we get a fairly comprehensive FAQ, I think it makes sense to put it on top as a sticky.

Per A · Post by **Per A** » 2008-03-25 20:02

When comparing different ways to listen to computer-stored music there is one thing I don't understand.

1)The simplest way is to connect PC with a cable from the soundcard to the preamp. This way you use the DAC in the PC and quality depends on the DAC. Control of music with Mediaplayer/Itunes

2) Next a separate DAC with USB input can be used. Example Benchmark USB DAC and PC + AVI ADM9 speakers with amps. In most cases a step-up in quality. Control of music with Mediaplayer/Itunes

3) A digital source, e.g. Squeezebox or Linn's DS. Control of music with Slimdevice/Linn software
What is it in no. 3 that makes separate software necessary? Exactly what is that makes no.3 a source component compared to 1&2? :?

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2008-03-25 20:54

Per A wrote:What is it in no. 3 that makes separate software necessary? Exactly what is that makes no.3 a source component compared to 1&2? :?

In simple terms, the difference is that in options 1 and 2, the PC is converting the stored media (i.e. the ripped CD or downloaded FLAC) into an audio stream, either analogue or digital. With option 3, the PC just passes the media file to the player (Squeezebox, DS etc.) which decodes it into an audio stream, then converts from digital to analogue.

This explains both why the control now sits with the player, and why the player is seen as a source.

Hope that helps.

Also, note that there is an option 4, where the PC outputs a digital stream through a SPDIF output, and a conventional (i.e. non-USB) DAC is used to convert this to an analogue signal. This is somewhere between options 1 and 2 in your list.

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2008-03-26 09:21

One addition:

Per A wrote:What is it in no. 3 that makes separate software necessary?

The UPnP AV stuff is defined that way, always three there are: Media Server, Media Renderer, and Control Point. But these don't have to be separate software, one software can also contain two (or three or...) UPnP devices.

So in fact it does not make it necessary, but possible. Which is a benefit, since it gives you a greater flexibility. For example the Control Point software can run on a complete different device, e.g. a WLAN handheld, which gives you a remote control.

Per A · Post by **Per A** » 2008-03-26 19:15

Thank You Sommerfee and rowlandhills,

This gadget takes USB and outputs digtal or analogues and calls itself source too

http://www.trendsaudio.com/EN/Product/U ... o_desc.htm

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2008-03-27 08:33

Per A wrote:This gadget takes USB and outputs digtal or analogues and calls itself source too

http://www.trendsaudio.com/EN/Product/U ... o_desc.htm

The site of TrendsAudio seems to be down at the moment, but I doubt that this is really a "source".

When looking at the UPnP architecture and how it's implemented in the DS and TwonkyMedia, you see that the DS is the unit which reads the tracks from the PC/NAS. The Control Point software is not telling the PC/NAS what tracks to transfer to the DS, but instead it's telling the DS what tracks to read from the PC/NAS and play. The DS is the "master", the PC/NAS the "slave".

So the design is different to a CD drive + DAC combo, where the CD drive is the "master" and the DAC the "slave". Instead the design of the DS is not much different from a usual CD player, but the DS is not using a CD/SACD/DVD-Audio/... as media, but a PC/NAS instead. It's like a CD player with an outsourced drive (just the bare drive = UPnP MediaServer) and an outsourced front panel [1] (= UPnP ControlPoint). If you press "1" on the CD player (or on the CD player remote), the CD player reads track 1 and starts to play it. If you press "1" on a handheld running the UPnP ControlPoint software, the DS reads track 1 and starts to play it.

(The UPnP architecture also allows the UPnP MediaServer to be the "master", but this is not how it's implemented in Twonky+DS.)

[1] That's why the Klimax DS doesn't have any knobs on it :mrgreen:

teatime · Post by **teatime** » 2008-03-30 00:18

Great writeup, sommerfee! :D A very well written and useful introduction to the technologies involved.

Just one suggestion:

sommerfee wrote: What UPnP A/V Media Server should I buy?

Since Twonky Media is the recommended UPnP server software, you should use a PC or NAS (=Network attached storage) where this software can or is already running at. For a list see http://www.twonkyvision.de

I think this is worded a bit too strong. Yes, Linn currently recommends Twonky, but this could change and there are other media servers that work fine as well and maybe the paragraph should reflect this? Just to avoid giving the incorrect impression that the DS players are somehow tied to Twonky.

For the record, I use Mediatomb as media server. No problems so far, even though it's slighly less userfriendly than Twonky.

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2008-03-30 08:17

Hi teatime,

I just improved the FAQ, thanks for the suggestion!

(Furthermore I just added a new first paragraph "What is a DS, how does it work?".)

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2008-03-30 11:20

Hi Sommerfee,
Thanks for taking the time to write your FAQ. Previously I'd not understood most of what's been said on the forum about the DS products - it went completely over my head. The networking side is fine, but everything else was new to me. It makes a lot more sense now and whilst I don't own a DS, at least I can understand better what its all about.

I just thought I'd mention one small point. In your example #3, you mention connecting two patch cables, one from DS to router and another from NAS to router. Unless the router is 'bridging' between the two LAN interfaces (very rare these days), then this form of connectivity will require two separate network address ranges on the LAN side of the router - one for a network with the DS and another for a network with the NAS. Obviously, the router would also connect to a third network residing on a WAN (Wide Area Network) interface out to the Internet.
The reason for this is that a router must 'route' between all its interfaces and without going into too much detail, this means each router interface must reside in a separate network (or subnetwork - i.e. 'subnet').

A more common topology is to link all the LAN devices into a switch, including just one LAN interface on the router, and then they can all reside within the same network address space - similar to your example #4.

Just thought I'd mention it in case anyone tries to implement this topology without understanding the additional IP addressing requirements.
Many Thanks again, Rgds Charlie.

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2008-03-30 13:48

Hi Charlie1,

Yes, you are right, I was mixing things there. What I meant to say: WLAN routers usually have a switch, a WLAN access point, and a DHCP server inside, so they can be used for a DS setup (and are usually cheaper than a switch and a seperate WLAN access point), leaving the routing part jobless.

I will do a cleanup later on today...

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2008-03-30 16:41

Ar Yes, I didn't think of that. All the best, Rgds.

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2008-03-30 16:48

I just changed that in the FAQ. Charlie1, could you please take a look at it if it's ok now? That would be very kind.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2008-03-30 17:12

That looks good to me.

Out of interest, do you happen to know what happens if a DS cannot obtain an IP address dynamically via DHCP. I wonder if it defaults to a static IP address in a similar way to Windows? It might be quite useful to know in case of network connectivity problems.

For example, if the DS does default back to a static IP address, you could then assign another static IP to a PC or laptop (within the same network range of course), connect the two machines together via a crossover cable and then run a Ping test between them. That's presuming the DS will respond to ICMP requests (i.e. Ping), but I would be surprised if it doesn't. A test like this would rule out any issues with a router, switch, cabling or DHCP software and be a useful step when fault finding.

I should just add that a static IP is not absolutely necessary for fault finding loss of connectivity unless DHCP isn't working. The problem is you won't know if it's a DHCP failure or some other reason that you haven't got a connection. At least with a static IP, you can rule out DHCP straight away.

It might also prove useful when experiencing other issues such as intermittent packet loss, high latency (delay) or jitter (variation of delay) between the DS and NAS. Connect a PC directly to the DS and you'll be able to test if the DS is OK and just keep testing one step at a time through the network.. Am I making sense? Enough for now - my wife wants me to trim her bush which is far more important! :) That's a jasmine bush by the way.

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2008-03-30 17:51

The UPnP design specification recommends "Auto-IP" if DHCP will fail: A static IP address 169.254.xxx.xxx with subnet mask 255.255.0.0 will be used, afterwards ARP is used to detect if this IP address is already used or not (if yes: it will be changed and tried again).

But I don't know if this is actually implemented in the DS. Once I saw a DS "blinking" for over 10 minutes, trying to obtain an IP address, so I assume it's not.

(But there are free DHCP server applications available, at least for Windows and of course Linux.)

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2008-03-30 18:18

That's a huge IP range, so it's easy to pick one that doesn't conflict, but all pretty academic if a DS doesn't assign an address once DHCP fails.

Pediatrik · Post by **Pediatrik** » 2008-03-30 21:46

Hi! I'm considering different ways of setting up a future DS in my home. As you might already know from other treads, I'm using Mac computers and would ultimately like to control the DS via an iPod Touch. The latest info from LINN seems promising but the timetable is unfortunately still a mystery.:?

In the meantime i'm trying to decide which of Sommerfees (Thanks for the FAQ buy the way!) set up examples I should use. What are the pros and cons when it comes to a NAS with build-in DHCP server and WLAN? Both Intradisk Server with WLAN http://intradisk.com/en/produkte/basisprodukt.html and QNAP TS-109 without WLAN http://www.qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=78 seems interesting. I'm a bit sceptic when it comes to integrated solutions, but should I be when it comes to NAS?

vicdiaz · Post by **vicdiaz** » 2008-03-31 04:13

Hi,

I just finished installing my Akurate DS using a D-LINK DNS-323 NAS and have a few comments about the configuration.

1. Make sure you use a network switch and NOT a network hub. Network collisions will cause gaps in music.

2. On the D-LINK NAS install TwonkyMedia. The included uPnP AV server does not support FLAC.

Besides that, the setup was really easy.

One caveat is that I'm getting music gaps when streaming 24bit/96K music. I'm going to test the setup with a Gigabit switch to see if it is a network bottleneck. If that does not solve it then I suspect that the NAS is not keeping up...

Besides that, it sounds fantastic!!!!

Vic

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2008-03-31 07:58

If the data stream is sensitive enough to be effected by collisions on the Ethernet, then better check that all device interfaces are either set as or negotiating to Full Duplex. If any are half duplex then you'll still be getting some collisions.

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2008-03-31 09:08

vicdiaz wrote: One caveat is that I'm getting music gaps when streaming 24bit/96K music. I'm going to test the setup with a Gigabit switch to see if it is a network bottleneck.

I used a Netgear FWG114P "Wireless Firewall/Print Server" without problems. At the moment I use a Linksys WRT54GL "Wireless Broadband Router" without any problems, too. Both are consumer stuff not supporting Gigabit speed, only 10/100 MBit/s.

When I do a little math, I get: 24Bit/96K needs about 2.3 MBit/s, 24Bit/192K about 4.6 MBit/s. There is some overhead because of the protocols, but FLAC is compressed which should compensate for this. Anyway, this is far below 100 MBit/s.

If that does not solve it then I suspect that the NAS is not keeping up...

Have you already tried to use your PC as UPnP Media Server to see if it's the NAS which is causing problems or not? What switch are you currently using?

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2008-03-31 18:05

sommerfee wrote: What UPnP Control Point should I buy?

There a many possibilities: For example you could use a Windows PC running the LinnGUI software. Or an Nokia 770/N800/N810 running the Nokia Media Streamer software. Or... All these different applications have their own strongs and weaks, so it is difficult to answer this question in general. Maybe http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=242 could help you finding the right one for your needs.

At the moment only the LinnGUI software offered by Linn is using the full capabilities of the DS and is able to play the tracks without annoying short gap between them. But this will change in the very future.

Any more news regarding this?
Seems the best option today is to use a PC wth LinnGUI SW- who like gaps between the tracks? :roll:

Pediatrik · Post by **Pediatrik** » 2008-03-31 18:55

Promises, but still no timetable:

HelplineLinn wrote:We are aware of external parties working on a UPnP but cannot confirm a date of when this will be available. Once confirmation on a launch date has been released we will inform our network of authorised Retailers.

Nobody with any comments regarding my question wether to aim for the fully integrated Intradisk or ex QNAP + WLAN-router?!

seanhinde · Post by **seanhinde** » 2008-03-31 23:58

I use a QNAP TS109 with a simple ethernet switch. The QNAP has a built in DHCP server so that takes care of making the DS happy.

The only downside of having no wireless is that I have a LAN cable alongside the power cable to the Samsung Q1.

So far I'm very happy with the QNAP. It's quiet, and works well.

Sean

Akurate/Klimax DS FAQ!?

Akurate/Klimax DS FAQ!?

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