ATC internal amplification

[matthias]

Fredrik really enjoyed the system and was pretty impressed with the music coming out of the ATCs. I think it would be best if he commented on what he thought of the ATCs, but I still thought they were better than anything else I have yet heard.

Fredrik,
are you happy to pass a comment?

Matt

[lejonklou]

Sorry about the late reply! This is my last day at half speed, tomorrow I'm diving full force into a pile of orders that have accumulated since the beginning of July.

Thomas' ATC sounded really good! I have only heard small standmount ATC models before. This was a different beast, with a more full range sound and in particular a very expressive midrange. For sure a highly involving speaker, but the top end is not as rich in detail and information as modern Linn speakers are. Then again, neither are the Klångedang T1's, which I still find more musical than any other loudspeaker. Both the passive Linn Akubariks and Thomas ATC's have, however, got me longing for a pair of full range loudspeakers.

Something I became aware of on my US trip is how different most American rooms are from typical Swedish ones. And how different loudspeakers can sound due to this. Here in Sweden, we sometimes say that a loudspeaker sounds "American", by which we mean that it has a certain character with elevated low bass and high treble. Now, really big rooms - like the one where we had the demo at Overture Audio - eat both that low bass (due to lossy walls) and the high treble (due to the massive amounts of carpets and fabrics). And voilà: The reproduction appears rather flat and balanced.

[matthias]

For sure a highly involving speaker, but the top end is not as rich in detail and information as modern Linn speakers are.

Thanks, Fredrik,

there is a new ATC tweeter, so this should not be an issue:

https://www.facebook.com/TransAudio/pho ... =1&theater

Matt

[lejonklou]

there is a new ATC tweeter, so this should not be an issue:

https://www.facebook.com/TransAudio/pho ... =1&theater

Thomas told me about that. Sounds interesting!

Considering that power amps are more important than loudspeakers to the final result - how good are actually ATC's interal amps? I'd like to hear them driven by Tundra Mono's, but don't know the parameters of the active filter.

[matthias]

Considering that power amps are more important than loudspeakers to the final result - how good are actually ATC's interal amps? I'd like to hear them driven by Tundra Mono's, but don't know the parameters of the active filter.

Yes,
there are two different internal amp packs for the ATCs. I asked Thomas about:

http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopi ... y&start=25

I would like to listen to passive ATCs with Tundra Monos but they are extremely power hungry and Sagatun Monos are more important than Tundra Monos.

Matt

[lejonklou]

there are two different internal amp packs for the ATCs. I asked Thomas about:

Yes, I remember now.

... and Sagatun Monos are more important than Tundra Monos.

I agree!

[matthias]

there are two different internal amp packs for the ATCs. I asked Thomas about:

Yes, I remember now.

... and Sagatun Monos are more important than Tundra Monos.

I agree!

Yes, the bigger ATCs are really expensive and it does not make sense to change the standard amp pack without driving them with Sagatun Monos.

[ThomasOK]

there is a new ATC tweeter, so this should not be an issue:

https://www.facebook.com/TransAudio/pho ... =1&theater

Thomas told me about that. Sounds interesting!

Considering that power amps are more important than loudspeakers to the final result - how good are actually ATC's interal amps? I'd like to hear them driven by Tundra Mono's, but don't know the parameters of the active filter.

Is this an offer to build me a Lejonklou active crossover for the ATCs if I can get you the parameters? If so I accept and will get them by hook or by crook!

It is late so I won't go into the ATC thing too much but, as noted, I had mentioned the new tweeter. I have already checked and it will not be available for separate sale until Q4 of this year so we have to hold our breath a little longer. Considering that it has taken ATC something like 10 years to develop the tweeter, that the version for my speakers is the last one coming out of three different versions, and that it is basically a high-frequency version of their superlative dome midrange, I have some pretty high expectations for it.

As to the amps, while I'd love to hear the ATCs with a six-pack of Tundra Monos, I don't really worry about the amps anymore like I did when I first got them - more about that later.

[lejonklou]

Is this an offer to build me a Lejonklou active crossover for the ATCs if I can get you the parameters? If so I accept and will get them by hook or by crook!

Not exactly an offer. Yet. But I'm interested in how complex the crossovers are. Some filter types can be incorporated into power amps without much trouble. Others will require more work.

[ThomasOK]

Here are the promised additional thoughts in regard to the ATC amps. I had the same thought when I first got them: How good are the amps? Of course the hierarchy tells us that the amps are more important than the speakers so would I be better off with Tundra Monos (or originally Solos) and another speaker. I honestly don’t worry about this anymore as I have done a couple of comparisons that mostly put this to rest. I have had home the latest 242s and a pair of Solos to compare and both Debbie and I felt there was no comparison - the ATCs were easily more musical. Same thing with 212s and Solos. So the logical conclusion is that the ATC amps must be quite good, at least for their intended purpose, in order to outperform Solos and a good speaker like the last 242s undoubtedly were. Now maybe if I had Klangedangs and Tundra Monos I’d change my mind – you never know. ;-)

[clasch66]

Optimistic conclusion Thomas ;-)

[anthony]

Here are the promised additional thoughts in regard to the ATC amps. I had the same thought when I first got them: How good are the amps? Of course the hierarchy tells us that the amps are more important than the speakers so would I be better off with Tundra Monos (or originally Solos) and another speaker. I honestly don’t worry about this anymore as I have done a couple of comparisons that mostly put this to rest. I have had home the latest 242s and a pair of Solos to compare and both Debbie and I felt there was no comparison - the ATCs were easily more musical. Same thing with 212s and Solos. So the logical conclusion is that the ATC amps must be quite good, at least for their intended purpose, in order to outperform Solos and a good speaker like the last 242s undoubtedly were. Now maybe if I had Klangedangs and Tundra Monos I’d change my mind – you never know. ;-)

I definitely prefer 350P with one Tundra stereo to 350A (non Exakt)
so the ATC amps must be pretty good!

[hcl]

Here are the promised additional thoughts in regard to the ATC amps. I had the same thought when I first got them: How good are the amps? Of course the hierarchy tells us that the amps are more important than the speakers so would I be better off with Tundra Monos (or originally Solos) and another speaker. I honestly don’t worry about this anymore as I have done a couple of comparisons that mostly put this to rest. I have had home the latest 242s and a pair of Solos to compare and both Debbie and I felt there was no comparison - the ATCs were easily more musical. Same thing with 212s and Solos. So the logical conclusion is that the ATC amps must be quite good, at least for their intended purpose, in order to outperform Solos and a good speaker like the last 242s undoubtedly were. Now maybe if I had Klangedangs and Tundra Monos I’d change my mind – you never know. ;-)

ATC have the power amps also as stand alone units. If you are correct in your judgements they should be better than Solos or maybe it is the active configuration that compensates for the lower performance of the ATC amps?

[ThomasOK]

Optimistic conclusion Thomas ;-)

Well, we do what we need to to keep ourselves happy!

[ThomasOK]

Here are the promised additional thoughts in regard to the ATC amps. I had the same thought when I first got them: How good are the amps? Of course the hierarchy tells us that the amps are more important than the speakers so would I be better off with Tundra Monos (or originally Solos) and another speaker. I honestly don’t worry about this anymore as I have done a couple of comparisons that mostly put this to rest. I have had home the latest 242s and a pair of Solos to compare and both Debbie and I felt there was no comparison - the ATCs were easily more musical. Same thing with 212s and Solos. So the logical conclusion is that the ATC amps must be quite good, at least for their intended purpose, in order to outperform Solos and a good speaker like the last 242s undoubtedly were. Now maybe if I had Klangedangs and Tundra Monos I’d change my mind – you never know. ;-)

ATC have the power amps also as stand alone units. If you are correct in your judgements they should be better than Solos or maybe it is the active configuration that compensates for the lower performance of the ATC amps?

Possibly, but there can be a significant difference between a general purpose amp and one designed to drive a specific driver with a limited bandwidth.

[hcl]

Here are the promised additional thoughts in regard to the ATC amps. I had the same thought when I first got them: How good are the amps? Of course the hierarchy tells us that the amps are more important than the speakers so would I be better off with Tundra Monos (or originally Solos) and another speaker. I honestly don’t worry about this anymore as I have done a couple of comparisons that mostly put this to rest. I have had home the latest 242s and a pair of Solos to compare and both Debbie and I felt there was no comparison - the ATCs were easily more musical. Same thing with 212s and Solos. So the logical conclusion is that the ATC amps must be quite good, at least for their intended purpose, in order to outperform Solos and a good speaker like the last 242s undoubtedly were. Now maybe if I had Klangedangs and Tundra Monos I’d change my mind – you never know. ;-)

ATC have the power amps also as stand alone units. If you are correct in your judgements they should be better than Solos or maybe it is the active configuration that compensates for the lower performance of the ATC amps?

Possibly, but there can be a significant difference between a general purpose amp and one designed to drive a specific driver with a limited bandwidth.

Are the amps different for each driver (apart from the filters ...)? The built in amps may share a common PSU. Anyone keen to share some knowledge?

[ThomasOK]

ATC have the power amps also as stand alone units. If you are correct in your judgements they should be better than Solos or maybe it is the active configuration that compensates for the lower performance of the ATC amps?

Possibly, but there can be a significant difference between a general purpose amp and one designed to drive a specific driver with a limited bandwidth.

Are the amps different for each driver (apart from the filters ...)? The built in amps may share a common PSU. Anyone keen to share some knowledge?

I'm glad this got split off as we were way off topic.

I have a couple more comments about the ATC amps. First of all the three amps in the ATC active speakers are different. The bass amp is 200 watts, the midrange amp is 100 watts and the tweeter amp is 50 watts (in their monster speakers with two bass drivers it is 375, 200 and 100 and they have a different tweeter that handles more power). Unlike Linn where the 55 watt amp is not of the same quality as the 110 watt amp (rated at 8 ohms) the three ATC amps are supposed to be of the same quality and the same design but just with the power output tailored to the driver. They are all driven from the same power supply (as are the amps in Linn Aktiv speakers although some models use two or three PS units to cover the current needed). I am not aware of any other optimization of the amps for the individual drivers except for protection circuits but ATC doesn't go into design specs a whole lot.

The other question I avoided earlier is the quality of ATCs separate power amps. I have never heard one so I don't know how good they are - they might be really good. But, again, you do have to design a full range am that needs to drive a wide range of speakers differently than what you might do for an amp that drives a limited range when you know the characteristics (impedance, power handling, phase characteristics, etc.) of the drivers it will drive. I am not saying that this is what they do but others have made limited range amps that they say could not be made if they had to be full range.

Bottom line, whatever they are doing it sounds really good to me. But I certainly would be glad to try a Lejonklou crossover and a six pack of Tundra Monos! I sent Fredrik the crossover characteristics but I'm not holding my breath.