Sound difference between Unidisk 1.1 and Klimax DS

[Hugo]

Frederic,

I will have both connected in the future. What is the reason for your recommendation of having only one device connected? Do you want to eliminate the influences of the cable or do you think there might be side effects?

[lejonklou]

The reason is that the difference will be easier to hear when you do as ML just wrote.

Power cords, interconnects and inputs on the preamp - these can all sound slightly different. The units can also disturb eachother electrically when they are both connected.

The combined effect could be very small, but not always.

[zeedje]

Zeedje,
currently I cannot say 100% for sure that the Kontrol is defect, I just have a strong indication in that direction. However, I have tested all 4 inputs of the KK and the effect is the same on all of them.

Hugo,

Maybe your KK is not faulty, but only put together in a faulty way. Which on the other hand gives an underperforming preamp.

Let your dealer check the direction of the cabling from the brilliant to the mother card. Opening of the case and changing of direction is a real swift operation - takes 10min at most.

Had mine fixed and the results are massive :D :D :D It is like going from an Exotik with a little polished sound to an absolutely magic preamp. Rumours says that Linn has started to take care of the direction of the internal cabling so hopefully this is a vanishing problem. But the cold truth is that 50% (as cables can be put in two directions) of all Linnproducts can be underperforming :(

Good luck! / Zeedje

[hcl]

Had mine fixed and the results are massive :D :D :D It is like going from an Exotik with a little polished sound to an absolutely magic preamp.

Is this really the case? I have hard to believe that the wrong cble directions can make a KK sound ike an Exotic. I do believe that it makes a noticable different, but not in the same league as changing gear.

[zeedje]

Is this really the case? I have hard to believe that the wrong cble directions can make a KK sound ike an Exotic. I do believe that it makes a noticable different, but not in the same league as changing gear.

hcl,

Ok, maybe I was underrating the performance of the KK before the mod. It is always hard to discuss percieved improvements in absolute numbers isn´t it? But as I lived with an Exotik with a Lejonklou internal cable for 18 months and a KK for one year I have a good picture of the difference.

I would say that the performance difference between a good Exotik and a bad KK is less than most people thinks it would be. But a KK that performs as it should is a very, very good preamp. I have finally got to understand what all the rave reviews are all about. It is very musical and totally transparent.

So to put some number on this I would say going from an Exotik to a KK was a 20% improvement but still not at the top. By switching direction of the internal in the KK I got up on the top :!: And I value those last percent much more...

/Zeedje

[Chris Morton]

Something that has always puzzled me is the wide performance variations you get with a Unidisk 1.1 depending on which firmware revision you have installed. There's one combination that is way better than all the others on my Unidisk (version 3 motherboard) and it's not the latest release of the firmware. The latest release of ESS really skrews up the sound on my Unidisk 1.1. I'm sure the latest release is optimal for the latest version of Unidisk 1.1 but there seem to be problems with newer versions of the firmware installed on older hardware releases. Yikes, I know of people who prefer earlier releases of firmare compared to the version I have installed on my player (they have version 2 motherboards or earlier). It's all a bit of a mess--you have to watch out when upgrading firmware. Do some listening, don't just assume it is going to be better.

I can guess that there are some Unidisk 1.1s out there that are not performing at their best for these reasons. It looks like it is the Klimax Kontrol that is the problem in this thread though...

[lejonklou]

Chris,

please read through the following discussion and tell us if you agree with the conclusions:

http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopi ... 29&start=0

I have tried all firmwares on quite a few machines of different age, and I am quite convinced ESS221 is the best in all cases.

[Chris Morton]

Hi Lejonklou,

My findings are different. I have an L3 board and I believe I am using ESS 223 and H8S 217. I know many prefer ESS 221. I've done some fairly systematic tests between 221 and 223 and, in my case, I just found the 223 to make much more musical sense and provide way more enjoyment (tune-dem better).

One oddity though is that I use the balanced connection between Unidisk 1.1 and Klimax Kontrol. I know that most others prefer the single-ended RCA link. Conventional wisdom would say the latter should be better but my listening tests in balanced mode, using 223 and 217, show that it is superior (tune-dem, especially rhythm component).

The balanced connection could be an additional variable here that might explain my different findings.

When I installed ESS 227 that was a "yikes, that's lifeless and boring" moment and I went straight back to ESS 223. Then the music came straight back...

[ThomasOK]

A few questions I think the forum would find informative and that would be a kind of summation of what has been discovered on this topic. Do you use the matching (to ESS221) H8S software or the latest version of that? Also do you have a MECH software preference? Does the ESS221 work on the Akurate CD player?

If you feel it is a good idea you might move the posts about this to the end of the original thread.

There are times when all of this makes me happy I have a little old Ikemi. And even happier that I do 95%+ of my listening on my LP12 - not to mention how good it sounds!

[lejonklou]

Interesting, Chris... I have not made any firmware comparisons using a balanced connection to the preamp. It seems I have to try that as well.

The choice between balanced and unbalanced is a bit complicated as it can depend on both the sender and the receiver. In other words: One has to make the comparison in each combination. I have usually preferred unbalanced, finding balanced dynamic and impressive at the cost of tunefulness. But last time I set up a Klimax DS+Kontrol, I quickly compared Silver balanced with Silver unbalanced and found balanced a little better. This might very well depend on the outputs of the Klimax DS, as I have preferred unbalanced between Unidisk 1.1 and Klimax Kontrol.

Thomas, my firmware choice using 1.1 and unbalanced out is the latest Mech and H8S, together with ESS 221. I have never heard (or heard of) any advantages using older Mech and H8S. Akurate CD can't use the Unidisk firmware.

I wish I could move posts from one thread to another, but phpBB2 (that this forum is built on) does not allow that! :x It's possible to split posts to a new thread, but not to incorporate them into an existing thread...

[Hugo]

Hi all,

I think I should post the results of my experiences with Klimax Kontrol, Klimax DS and Unisisk 1.1: Things are not always as the seem to be...

I had my Klimax Kontrol checked by my dealer and he did not find any fault in it, it sounded perfect (compared with his KK). So I had to check anything that was left and found the issue in the power cable.

The power cable I used with my KK was a "non-Linn" standard cable that had the Linn-standard ICE-plug and cable but a different power plug. I must have messed up the cable as I changed my TV set months ago. Now with the Linn power cable my KK sounds much better again - and you can clearly hear the difference between DS and 1.1!

So leassons learned:
(1) Do only use Linn cables or plugs (or others that you have very carefully tested).
(2) Do not underestimate the importance of even the smallest parts of a Linn system - they can significantly decrease the overall performance.
(3) Do not mess cables up ...

[Lego]

Glad you got things sorted Hugo and I again I apologize for my previous outbursts :oops:

Lego

[Ceilidh]

Hi all,
Now with the Linn power cable my KK sounds much better again - and you can clearly hear the difference between DS and 1.1!

So leassons learned:
(1) Do only use Linn cables or plugs (or others that you have very carefully tested).
(2) Do not underestimate the importance of even the smallest parts of a Linn system - they can significantly decrease the overall performance.
(3) Do not mess cables up ...

Hi Hugo,

Thank you very much for your writeup!

Your report makes me feel a little more confident about some of my own experiences (I'm still a novice at these things): this summer my folks went Aktiv with their UniSC / Chakra 5100 / Ninka system, and (beyond more bass) none of us could hear any difference after the conversion (which was a major disappointment!). But it turned out the Chakra (a former dealer demo) had a stiff, heavy, shielded, non-Linn power cord, and when we swapped that out for something close to the stock Linn item, the sound** got much, much better. We haven't gone back to passive with the new power cord, so there's no direct Aktiv-passive comparison, but we've been wondering if maybe the power cord, by acting as a bottleneck, was keeping us from hearing the vaunted "Aktiv sound". So your experience with the KK/DS is very intriguing. :D

May you please have much enjoyment with your DS!

- C

** - sorry: by "sound", I mean musicality in a tune dem sense.... :D

[Hugo]

something close to the stock Linn item, the sound** got much, much better.

Ceildh,
based upon my experiences, I would recommend that you buy a new Linn power cable. It cost me 25,- € at my dealer.

Hugo

[Ceilidh]

Ceildh,
based upon my experiences, I would recommend that you buy a new Linn power cable. It cost me 25,- € at my dealer.

Hugo

Hello Hugo!

Believe me, I've tried!! :D

The audiophile ecosystem looks very different to those of us flitting about the underbrush than it does to you who stride along the pathways: my local Linn dealers don't appear to have time for someone who buys his equipment used, and I've completely failed in my attempts to purchase a Linn power cord, Knekt bananas, and other Linn sundries. (By my "failing", I mean the local dealers will first try to dissuade me from purchasing; then instead of simply saying "No. We will not sell you a power cord or other Linn accessories.", they'll take down the special order info and tell me to wait for a bit; then they'll not say anything about the order for days and weeks; then they'll tell me it's "on the way"; then they'll claim "Linn is delaying the order"; then they'll audibly sigh and sound increasingly irritated when I call for my monthly update; then they'll lose record of and forget about the order entirely; then they'll ask me to stop calling them as they'll call me "when the parts come in".....and then there'll be complete silence!)

(As a related aside, I'm 2/3 of the way through Barbara Tuchman's "A Distant Mirror" -- the current chapter's about the widespread peasant & villein rebellions that spread through France, Italy, England, and Flanders during the late 14th century, and how centuries of neglect and oppression had fostered a growing resentment among the peasantry towards the haughty and disdainful noble classes. That's not to say this situation is anything that dramatic (!) :D, but when the day comes that I can afford something beyond a used Classik Music-based system, I will happily march into a Linn dealership, credit card in hand, to purchase new components, with full warranty, with all the latest updates and (hopefully) a complete absence of interesting used-equipment quirks. And when that day comes, there is absolutely no way in heaven that the shop I walk into will be owned by one of these dealers (nor will it be the one an hour away that wanted to charge me $350 for a Classik Music remote)!)

Anyway, the cord now on my parents' Chakra is a Volex that's close to the one supplied by Linn, and ThomasOK (who's an incredibly helpful individual and part of a dealership that I wish were within driving range of Boston!!) has kindly offered to help me get a real Linn cord. So I hope to be set in the near future.

And if I can put in a word for Linn USA: this forum has never said anything unkind about the parent organization, but on Topica some folks have said disparaging things about the USA office & helpline -- and I just wanted to say that the Jacksonville FL Linn office has been a lifeline for my folks and for me. The eBay / Audiogon / Dealer Demo world has some great bargains for a novice Linn enthusiast -- but it can also be a minefield of unscrupulous sellers, misleading half-truths, shady deceptions, and outright fraud. Piecing together my parents' system and my own has been a fun adventure, but we've only been able to do it thanks to the repeated, concerted, and energetic advice (and occasional intervention) on the part of Linn USA. The dealers won't talk to us, but Jacksonville will. It's because of them (and folks like ThomasOK, Mr. Lejonklou, Music Lover, Sommerfee, Azazello, and the others in this forum) that we're devoted Linn fans for life. :D

Sorry for the long digression and vent(!) -- but yes, I'll track down a genuine Linn power cord, and I'm very glad your (beautiful!) system is now performing as you had hoped. Many happy wishes, and please have a great week!

-C

P.S. -- Although I may not be especially happy with my local dealers, nothing they've done has ever suggested they don't take good care of their real customers, or that they've deliberately misled me! They're just understaffed and have their priorities, and when it comes to choosing between remembering to order some minor Linn accessories for someone who's never purchased from them, vs. fixing an installation hiccup for a longterm customer who's just bought a $50k system upgrade and wants everything to be just so, they'll of course spend their time with the $50k fellow! So, rationally speaking, I do sympathize with the dealers (but irrationally, my feathers are a bit ruffled, and if and when I become more prosperous, I'll prefer to deal with someone who was kind to me even when I was "poor"!). But nobody's been deliberately unkind. :D

[Music Lover]

A good dealer have time to support all customers!

Also, some customers bying second hand AND getting good support...going to (later on) have money to buy new equipment.

[JohnS]

Hugo,

How do you identify the original Kontrol power cable?

I have a number of cables from Linn and elsewhere, and I've no idea if it's the right one....

Any clues

Thanks
John

[Hugo]

John,

it was quite easy: the wrong cable has the power cable going straight into the plug while the Linn cable has the cable going into the plug like a "L".

The cable itself and the plug into the device was the same as the original cable.

Although there are different cables from Linn, they all have the "L" shape power plug. I know there were Lists of the different power canles here in this forum. If you want, I can post the specs of my cables?!?

[JohnS]

Hugo,

I'm amazed it made such a difference, as I have a KK and I'm just buying a Klimax DS, so I was following your initial problems with attention and you've got me looking!

For the history, I had some Nordost power cables, which made a big difference in the Kairn, Ikemi, LK280 days. After lots of upgrades however it seems that they didn't make such a difference in Klimax equipment (although it does make a small difference). But they Nordost cables won't plug into the KK as they are too big. I'm selling them via ebay, one by one.

So I have a pile of previously unused black Linn mains cables, from which I took a random one, but which one came originally with the KK? no idea!

I don't have any with an L... they all go straight in. I'm in the UK, which country are you in, maybe there's a difference there?

I have two that I use for the Klimax twin and KK, they are a bit different! One is black and has lots of white specifications printed on it, but it is made by Tongyuan, and one is all black with Korde Kabel imprinted in the plastic.

Is this what you have, or do you have something else?

What does anyone else in the UK have that is correct for a KK?

Thanks
John

[Charlie1]

Hi John. I've purchased three new different Linn products within the last 12 months (in the UK), and they all have the same mains kettle lead. Sorry none of them was a KK. The leads are all marked with the following white text:
"H05VV-F 3G0.75mm2 <VDE> KEMA-KEUR +S+S+S <OVE> CEBEC IEMMEQU SABS 1574 BAOHING GTSA-3 N14586 CE LF"

[Hugo]

JohnS, I live in Germany. So we have different plugs. The "L" shape plug I referred to was to one that goes into the wall, not the one which goes into the device.

Here are my GOOD LINN cables:
H05VV-F 3G1.0mm2 <VDE> KEMA-KEUR +S+S+S <ÖVE> CEBEC IEMMEQU SSABS1574 BAOHING GTSA-3 N14586
WITH VOLEX V1625
and Volex M2511A

H05VV-F 3G1.0mm2 <VDE> KEMA-KEUR CEBEC +S+S+S <ÖVE> IEMMEQU S/370 SABS 1574 NF-USE TONGYUAN
WITH VOLEX V1625
and Volex M2511A

<VDE> <ÖVE> KEMA-KEUR +S+S+S IEMMEQU CEBEC H05VV-F 3G1.0mm2 N/14475 CHING CHENG
WITH EL701
and EL202

[GSL]

Would anyone happen to know where I might find information on power cables marked with:

H05VV-F 3G1.0mm2 <VDE> KEMA-KEUR CEBEC +S+S+S <ÖVE> CEBEC IEMMEQU SABS 1574 (S) (N) (D) (FI) BAOHING GTSA-3 N14586 CE NF

[lejonklou]

Hi GSL and welcome to the forum!

The cable you describe sounds just like the European Volex Baohing. It's a good one.

What information are you seeking? Where to find it or you already have it and want to know something about it?

[GSL]

Well I have about 400 of those which are the straight ones, and about 500 of the ones that are angled. I'm trying to find out anything I can about them because I need to sell them for work.

[lejonklou]

Are the plugs Shuko (European)? If so, please contact me with a pm, I might be interested if the plugs, connectors and the direction of the cable are all of the right type.