Outstanding Linn products of their era

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Charlie1
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Outstanding Linn products of their era

Post by Charlie1 »

We all enjoy the benefits of an upgrade to our system and delight at the many improvements. To the best of my knowledge, Linn have always succeeded in developing newer products that outperformed the older ones at the same level, and moving up the Linn ladder has always given a boost to performance. However, over the past few decades, Linn must have particularly hit the sweet spot once in a while, no matter how good their overall product standard and consistent steps forward. These rarer products seem to generate their own legendary status. I suppose this can be for any number of reasons, such as a product that represented outstanding value for money and challenged more expensive models further up the range, or a real leap forward in Linn's reference Hi-Fi at that time, or simply a product that was able to draw the listener into the musician/s performance at a whole new level (Akiva! :D ) I'd love to know which Linn products other forum members would put forward.

Another reason for asking is that, until a few years ago, I hadn't taken an interest in new Hi-Fi products for about 15 years (a great way to retain your earnings!) and am aware that there are some classic Linn products that have simply passed me by. Reading through old forum topics, some products are written about with great enthusiasm by members, and not being familiar with them, I wonder what made them so special.

PS If Linn really hit the sweet spot every so often, I would expect that there was the occasional below par performer or possibly even an upgrade that represented a step backwards in some way? :( It would be interesting to hear what you think they were too.
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Post by hcl »

Each of the following products represented (in my opinion) a major performance step for any Linn system or has marked themselves as (more or less) legendary (LP12, Isobarik, CD12, ...):

LP12 (no kidding :wink: )
Isobarik (active!)
Lingo
Briliant power supply (switch mode power supply upgrade for Kairn, Karik and Numerik)
CD12
Keel
Klimax DS (To Be Confirmed)
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Post by vicdiaz »

KANS!
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Post by ThomasOK »

I'll start out by noting that I agree with the lists of both hcl and Vic although I wouldn't limit the Isobarik to the Aktiv version.

Overall I think most of the memorable Linn pieces are their reference products as they have tended to define what is possible in music reproduction. This leads to adding several other products to the list such as:

Klimax Kontrol
Ekos (standard and SE)
Linto
Klimax Solo

Also such older goodies as
Klout
Kairn
Kremlin
LK1
LK280

I particularly want to mention the LK1 as it really was a breakthrough product. Even though it was one of Linn's first two electronic components (along with the LK2) it was very forward thinking and set new levels of performance for the time. I was still happily using mine until 1998 when I upgraded to the Kairn. In a comparison of phono stages I did a couple of years ago the LK1 phono stage took on all comers from the NAD PP2 to the Rege Fono, Grado PH-1 and the Kolektor phono stage and handily beat everything by a wide margin except the superior Kairn. And this was a product introduced in 1984!

I would also put in the Classik Music as it is such a wonderful music maker for the money. Combine it with any good small speaker like Paradigm Atoms, Rega R1s, Katans, AVI Neutron IVs and you get a very musical performance. Add a REL sub and it is even better. Many good floorstanders like Ninkas, Vienna Bachs and AVI Duos also work quite well with the Classik. And I would challenge anybody to find better performance than the Classik Music without at least doubling the price - hell, it's hard to find just a better CD player without doubling the price!

As to the duffers they have tended, more often than not, to be speakers. Among the less well regarded are the Helix and Nexus, the AV series - especially the 5110, the Keosa and Centrik and the Komponents (I'm sure I'll get some argument on this one - but not much :)). A lot of this has to do with the changing philosophies of the different head speaker designers as you can see the different implementations they have brought to the lineup. It is also notable that many of the worst were at the bottom of the line: Keosa, AV5110, Komponents.

The other products that I would list under the duffer category are products that would have made it into the classics category if it weren't for all the problems with them. They were products where Linn was expanding into a new product type and released them before they were properly debugged causing the dealers to want to pull their hair out dealing with all the customer complaints. I refer to the UniDisk 1.1 and 2.1 and the Karik. These products had wholesale reliability issues that took a year or two to fix leaving the dealer to deal with the customers wrath at having to have their unit updated every couple of months just so it would play discs properly. A task for which the dealers have never been properly compensated or even thanked! Considering the wonderful sound (and picture on the UniDisks) these could have gone down as classics but they have been too tarnished by their problems.

As far as upgrades go, I can happily say that I have never heard an upgrade from Linn - be it a new piece for the LP12 or a switch mode power supply - that was not a musical improvement. Nor have I ever heard a new version of a product that didn't perform better than the old one (we'll leave the Kan IV and V out of this as they were not designed to be improvements over the original Kan and Kan II). In these respects they are really unique in my experience. Even companies I really respect like Rega have had products that I felt were not really an improvement over their immediate predecessors, like the Planet 2000. This is not to say that Linn are flawless in their new product introductions. It sometimes takes them a couple of updates to really get it right, witness the Akurate 242 now entering the third iteration! But even the first versions tend to be quite good and fully competitive products, when they get updated they end up showing you what their real potential was from the beginning.
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Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks for your input folks. I didn't know that about the Classik Music. I'll bear it in mind next time friends or family ask me to recommend something in that price range.

I used to own Kan IIs and agree they were very special - superb timing and perfect match for the LP12 of that era. In fact, it was Kans and the LP12 that got me into Linn/vinyl in the first place. It took approx 3-5 seconds before I knew I was in big trouble :shock: . I went into the store for a pre/power dem and ended up buying a record player and speakers!

Judging from the positive forum comments about the Keilidh, I thought that it might pop up under the 'value for money' category. It looks like a predecessor to the Ninka in terms of design - how does it perform and was it a good seller? Talking of speaker sales, I've got the impression that many Linn dealers are very pleased with the Majik 140 and anticipate good sales. Perhaps that will be a future model that stands out for having great 'sound per pound' (forgive the UK saying.)
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Post by Music Lover »

ThomasOK wrote: Klimax Kontrol
Ekos (standard and SE)
Linto
Klimax Solo
Where is Lingo?
And Komri?
CD12?
I also add Klimax DS to that list...

The reference Klimax series; CD12/KK/Solo/Komri was a HUUUUUGE step up from the previous top of the line Ikemi/5103/4Klout/Keltik-system.
Dont think we ever going to get such a massive improvment on all components again. (hope Linn proves me wrong :mrgreen: )
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Post by Azazello »

Music Lover wrote:The reference Klimax series; CD12/KK/Solo/Komri was a HUUUUUGE step up from the previous top of the line Ikemi/5103/4Klout/Keltik-system. Dont think we ever going to get such a massive improvment on all components again. (hope Linn proves me wrong :mrgreen: )
Wasn't Karik/Numerik the best CD player before Ikemi? I think that Ikemi was a "trickle down" from CD12?

And where is Tukan on your lists? Much better then Keilidh.
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Post by Music Lover »

Azazello wrote:
Music Lover wrote:The reference Klimax series; CD12/KK/Solo/Komri was a HUUUUUGE step up from the previous top of the line Ikemi/5103/4Klout/Keltik-system. Dont think we ever going to get such a massive improvment on all components again. (hope Linn proves me wrong :mrgreen: )
Wasn't Karik/Numerik the best CD player before Ikemi? I think that Ikemi was a "trickle down" from CD12?

And where is Tukan on your lists? Much better then Keilidh.
You may be right regarding Ikemi vs K/N.
Tukan? Not on my short list :wink:
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Post by teatime »

Charlie1 wrote:I went into the store for a pre/power dem and ended up buying a record player and speakers!
Hahaha! The power of demonstration! :D
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Post by ThomasOK »

Music Lover wrote:
ThomasOK wrote: Klimax Kontrol
Ekos (standard and SE)
Linto
Klimax Solo
Where is Lingo?
And Komri?
CD12?
I also add Klimax DS to that list...

The reference Klimax series; CD12/KK/Solo/Komri was a HUUUUUGE step up from the previous top of the line Ikemi/5103/4Klout/Keltik-system.
Dont think we ever going to get such a massive improvment on all components again. (hope Linn proves me wrong :mrgreen: )
Music Lover,

If you read the beginning of my post you will see that I was agreeing with the two previous lists which included the Lingo, CD12 and, provisionally, the Klimax DS so my list was designed as an addition to theirs. The Komri is not on my list because I have never been impressed by what I have heard from them. Before all the flames start I should explain that the only times I have heard them were at a show where they weren't all that well set up and at the Linn USA headquarters where the Linn Rep didn't even want to turn them on for me because "this room sounds like crap and we don't have the system dialed in properly". In both of these cases they were understandably underwhelming. Although Linn has promised a couple of times to do a musical evening at our store featuring Aktiv Komris they have not so far managed to get it together to do so - at least in part due to the musical chairs game they seem to keep playing with our reps.

I do agree that the CD12/KK/Solos were all huge improvements on the previous top line components - as well they should have been at 3 to 5 times the prices! My Klimax Kontrol made my Kairn (which I truly loved) sound broken. And if it takes another tripling to quintupling of the prices I'm not sure if I want Linn to prove you wrong. :)
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Post by Charlie1 »

I had a lowly K9 at the time, so can't really vouch for it, but what about the Troika?
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Post by Music Lover »

ThomasOK wrote: If you read the beginning of my post you will see that I was agreeing with the two previous lists which included the Lingo, CD12 and, provisionally, the Klimax DS so my list was designed as an addition to theirs.
Sorry, missed that. My bad.
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Post by bonzo »

gotta agree with Klimax Kontrol
also nominating Keel
lp12, Keel, K Radikal, Urika, EkosSe/1 Kandid KK1/D, JBL 708p
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Post by hcl »

bonzo wrote:gotta agree with Klimax Kontrol
also nominating Keel
Keel is also already listed...

You have all listed really good products such as Kan, Troika or the Klimax Kontrol, but were they really THAT "gobsmacking"? I do not know I you feel, but in my opinion such a list kind of looses its relevance if too many products are listed. I would wote for a short list with the most outstanding products.
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Post by Charlie1 »

Hi hcl, thanks for your comments.
I only asked if others would suggest the Troika, because I have no first hand experience with it, but no one did.
Whilst I did own Kan II's, I can't really put them into context as I didn't know the Tune Method back then and wasn't familiar with the other products around at the time. I suspect they were very musical and fast and also offered great timing for their era. Many previous owners are very fond of them, including myself, but as you suggest, I'm not sure whether that makes them a really outstanding product.
I don't have much experience with the K Kontrol, but from what I've read, it sounds like it's a worthy entry.
Personally, I am more interested in why other member's love particular products rather than what the actual list contains, but I take your point about it being diluted if too many products are included. Here's the list as it stands. It's quite long, but as a percentage of Linn products over the years, it's probably not too much: -

The Good:-
Klimax DS
CD12
LP12 (inc Lingo, Linto, Ekos/Ekos SE, Keel and Akiva)
Kremlin
Klimax Kontrol
Kairn
LK1
Klimax Solo
Klout
LK280
Komri
Tukan
Kan
Isobarik
Classik Music - Value for money
Briliant power supply

The Duffer's: -
Helix
Nexus
5110
Keosa
Centrik
Komponent range
UniDisk 1.1 - Wholesale reliability issues, otherwise would have been excellent
UniDisk 2.1 - Wholesale reliability issues, otherwise would have been excellent
Karik - Wholesale reliability issues
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Post by Chris Morton »

Here's my take. My comments focus on development in Linn's product line that for me have brought tremendous musical satisfaction.

Aktiv Isobariks--I think one of the reasons why this product has received so much stick in the past is that careful and informed setup, front-end quality and powerfull amplification are all critical, otherwise you get muddle, harsh and shouty sound. They are just not forgiving to the rest of the system. It's amazing how tuneful, rhythmic and informative they are in the right system. The Slimline upgrade for the Aktiv was a big benefit from an tune perspective.

Keel--yes, I would also include other LP12 components (Lingo was very important, as was Ekos which makes Ittok sound totally wrong) but for me the Keel is special. In my opinion, the Keel solves problems with the LP12 that in certain respects made it inferior to my Unidisk 1.1. With some music where there's a lot of velocity in the playing (Four Seasons, Winter for example) the LP12 before just couldn't keep up. Not so on the Unidisk 1.1. The Keel just solves all those problems and give you more. From a pitch-rightness point-of-view the Keel is magical. It's amazing how now you hear low notes (a base line for example) that are so harmoneous with the rest of the music.

Klimax Kontrol--as a previous Kairn owner (and LK1 a long time before), the KK for me was a revolution. I did this upgrade blind, listening to opinions from TSwam and others on the Topica forum. They were so right. The KK is a breakthrough. It's amazing just how much the Kairn was taking away, from an information point-of-view. The KK also is just so much more pitch right compared to the Kairn. The Kairn was a great product in its day though!

Unidisk 1.1--an amazing CD player although the merits of SACD and DVD-A (yuck) are questionable, but ability to play DVD-V (music/movie) so well is great. I agree, a big discount should go to this product for the mess with disk read errors. Fortunately for me, I have a later version (L3 board), and I didn't encounter much in the way of operation problems.
LP12 SE/Radikal/Urika,KK, Aktiv Isobariks
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Post by Charlie1 »

Hi Chris. Good to hear your take on some Linn favorites. I doubt I'll ever get the chance to hear Isobariks, especially at their best, but you never know I suppose :( . Welcome to the forum by the way. Rgds, Charlie.
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Post by Lego »

Linn Saras were pretty special,no?
I know that tune
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Post by vicdiaz »

I just spent a few minutes reading this thread and for what its worth the first real Linn product I ever heard was the Linn Basik phono cartridge back in 1984. It was part of a Rega Planar 3, Creek CAS4040 amplifier and Wharfedale Diamonds (I) system and it was so musical at that time that I'm still trying to find out were my jaw is!!!!

Back on 2008 I've listened to hundreds of 'musical' systems thru the years but this is like virginity, you always remember your first time!

So, let's include the Linn Basik cartridge on the list!!!

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Post by Lego »

Agree!When I had the basic arm there were 4 of us sharing a flat and the LP12 so cartridges didn't last very long.It was a goldring 1040?A&R Cambridge and AR18s speakers.Got fed up forking out 40quid so I said I was going to use the freebie cartridge to my surprise it blew the goldring out the water and that was the point I decided from now on I would only buy Linn.The one thing Linn have going for them is they are and have always been very good value for money(not the same as affordable),they are even doing it to themselves with the DS lot
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Post by Lego »

I'm sure The Flat something magazine said the basik was far superior to the Koetsus good old Chris Franklin we miss you dearly
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My First Linn experience

Post by bonzo »

was with a pr of Kabers, walnut finish, passive mode.. there was a local shop going out of business..i hardly knew anything about linn, much less the lp12...the dealer demo'd the kabers on a cd player (dont even know which brand or model), then demo'd on an lp12 (dont know specs) and i thought there was a trumpet player in the room.. Funds being limited (was only 20) i ended up getting the kabers for just under 1000usd, and later went on to activate them with 3 lk100s, and its all history from there...So, i say lets not forget the Kaber..the "sleeper" speaker...
lp12, Keel, K Radikal, Urika, EkosSe/1 Kandid KK1/D, JBL 708p
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Post by Music Lover »

Kaber is likely the speaker that benefit most being active.
A LOT better active.

Also, Kaber benefit from good powerful amps.
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