Hi,
My LP12 is out of tune/does not sing and therefor i like to use a torque tool and my ears to make it going again. I have some questions about torque settings for the Akito MKII and Adikt.
1. best torque for height locking screw is between 1,3-1,6Nm?
2. best torque for Adikt screws is 0,2-0,3 Nm?
3. Optimal VTA with medium thickness LP for Adikt is slightly positive (arm pillar a bit higher)?
4. The 1,7 grams for VTF which Lejonklou is is under the recommended downforce of 1,75 grams by Linn, why is that?
KR,
Robin
VTF Adikt
Questions about Akito MKII and Adikt
Moderator: Staff
Questions about Akito MKII and Adikt
Naim SuperNait/CD5si/NAT05/phonoamp?/Allae/Fraimlite/Sonos Connect/TechnicsSL1210 GR/Goldring1006 mm
It's best to think of each torque value as a starting off point. Drivers tend to vary slightly, so you need to tune each fixing yourself by ear. This experience will also help demonstrate the value of this fine tuning. It's worth the effort, rather than just applying the settings and leaving it there.
Also, the performance gap between miles off and quite close is sometimes less than the gap between slightly out and bang on.
There are lots of old threads and you might find answers there too
Good luck
Also, the performance gap between miles off and quite close is sometimes less than the gap between slightly out and bang on.
There are lots of old threads and you might find answers there too
Good luck
Re: Questions about Akito MKII and Adikt
Hi Robin!lplover wrote:1. best torque for height locking screw is between 1,3-1,6Nm?
2. best torque for Adikt screws is 0,2-0,3 Nm?
3. Optimal VTA with medium thickness LP for Adikt is slightly positive (arm pillar a bit higher)?
4. The 1,7 grams for VTF which Lejonklou is is under the recommended downforce of 1,75 grams by Linn, why is that?
1. In my notes, the best torque was slightly below 1.6 Nm, but it certainly makes sense to start lower. Maybe at 1.2 and then start with big steps and when it gets too high, back down and use smaller steps. The height locking screw is easy to get right, as it's a sharp and obvious peak.
2. Yes. Start at 0.2 and go one step up at a time.
3. Yes, I find it to be slightly higher in the pillar end with Adikt. The exact height varies with each stylus, so is best found by listening (using the recommended downforce and a record of medium thickness).
4. The downforce should be set by ear, as it varies with each stylus, with arm height and with temperature. It's usually close to the recommended value, but fine tuning it can be worthwhile.
Re: Questions about Akito MKII and Adikt
Thank you for this!lplover wrote:Hi,
2. best torque for Adikt screws is 0,2-0,3 Nm?
I decided to untighten the screws on a Ortofon 2M Bronze.
And it is a lot softer.
No! It is wunderbar!
ONE QUESTION:
How do you measure 0,2-0,3 Nm TORQUE?
Sunny Regards,
Frank
For lplover, I agree with the advice of both Charlie1 and Lejonklou. I torque the Adikt a little above .2Nm and the arm height on an Akito II close to 1.4Nm. As mentioned different screwdrivers can vary even if they are the same model so fine tuning must be done by ear. Same goes for arm height and tracking force, as mentioned, although you shouldn't be too far off the recommended VTF on an Adikt (I'd say no more than + or - .05 gram).
For morego, in order to make these adjustments, which have musical repercussions on almost all fasteners on a turntable, you need a precision torque screwdriver. The one Lejonklou and I use, as well as several others who have taken up using this system, is the Sturtevant-Richmont CAL 36/4. While there are several other makes of driver from companies like Wera, the CAL 36/4 has two advantages: 1) It covers the fairly large range from .2Nm all the way up to 4.0Nm and can even be used effectively a fair bit below .2Nm in my experience. This allows it to cover the entire range of torques that we have so far found useful on Hi-Fi and then only barely as the LP12 bearing housing to Keel is just over 3.8Nm and the sensor board wires on the Radikal are well under .2Nm. 2) It has a series of notches on the base into which a tab on the torque adjusting handle can fit. Use of these notches allows for torque to be repeatedly adjusted in increments of one or two hundredths of a Nm - and we have found these tiny increments to be audible on most fasteners. Some other torque drivers do not allow such fine adjustment. More information on this driver can be found at the link below:
http://www.srtorque.com/Products/System ... CAL36.html
They are available from a number of online merchants for prices typically ranging from about $150 to $250US. However, they also show up on eBay regularly for much less than that as many computer and telephone technicians use them. If buying through eBay make sure you are getting the CAL 36/4 as they make one that looks virtually identical but it does not have adjustable torque.
Once you have one of these the world of torques is your oyster soup kitchen floor wax museum!
Almost forgot, most musical torque for the Ortofom 2m series cartridges I have installed (Black in an Ittok and Blue in a Rega RB1000) have been near .25Nm - one a little above and one a touch below.
For morego, in order to make these adjustments, which have musical repercussions on almost all fasteners on a turntable, you need a precision torque screwdriver. The one Lejonklou and I use, as well as several others who have taken up using this system, is the Sturtevant-Richmont CAL 36/4. While there are several other makes of driver from companies like Wera, the CAL 36/4 has two advantages: 1) It covers the fairly large range from .2Nm all the way up to 4.0Nm and can even be used effectively a fair bit below .2Nm in my experience. This allows it to cover the entire range of torques that we have so far found useful on Hi-Fi and then only barely as the LP12 bearing housing to Keel is just over 3.8Nm and the sensor board wires on the Radikal are well under .2Nm. 2) It has a series of notches on the base into which a tab on the torque adjusting handle can fit. Use of these notches allows for torque to be repeatedly adjusted in increments of one or two hundredths of a Nm - and we have found these tiny increments to be audible on most fasteners. Some other torque drivers do not allow such fine adjustment. More information on this driver can be found at the link below:
http://www.srtorque.com/Products/System ... CAL36.html
They are available from a number of online merchants for prices typically ranging from about $150 to $250US. However, they also show up on eBay regularly for much less than that as many computer and telephone technicians use them. If buying through eBay make sure you are getting the CAL 36/4 as they make one that looks virtually identical but it does not have adjustable torque.
Once you have one of these the world of torques is your oyster soup kitchen floor wax museum!
Almost forgot, most musical torque for the Ortofom 2m series cartridges I have installed (Black in an Ittok and Blue in a Rega RB1000) have been near .25Nm - one a little above and one a touch below.
Thank you for the enlightenment and for the 'Ortofon values'! And ....
No, I will not join the bus of torque on my cartridge screws.
I like all the meals in your kitchen.
But the amount of 40% of a Gaio for a screwdriver does not come across my taste.
But a smale calibration question: The feeling of 20 cNm is like crumpling a leaf of a tree?
Sunny regards... Frank
No, I will not join the bus of torque on my cartridge screws.
I like all the meals in your kitchen.
But the amount of 40% of a Gaio for a screwdriver does not come across my taste.
But a smale calibration question: The feeling of 20 cNm is like crumpling a leaf of a tree?
Sunny regards... Frank
Cool picture, Frank!morego wrote:But the amount of 40% of a Gaio for a screwdriver does not come across my taste.
But a smale calibration question: The feeling of 20 cNm is like crumpling a leaf of a tree?
As Thomas mentioned, they can occasionally be found really cheap on ebay. If they are well worn their setting might be a little off, but as the scale of the tool is adjustable, one can find a known and easy fastener's torque by ear and then adjust the scale to the value it's supposed to have. Has worked quite well on my nine CAL 36/4 bought second hand on ebay.
20 cNm is not very much, but enough to make you feel how the plastic body of a cartridge is being firmly pressed against a tonearm's headshell. As it's a twist of a screwdriver, I can't really compare it to the crumbling of leafs.
thanx for all the info.
But my dealer has done the finetuning by ear this wednesday and i am fully satisfied with the SQ. It sound so good all the aspects (PRAt, drive, extended bass/treble, clear, tight etc) are there.
But my dealer has done the finetuning by ear this wednesday and i am fully satisfied with the SQ. It sound so good all the aspects (PRAt, drive, extended bass/treble, clear, tight etc) are there.
Naim SuperNait/CD5si/NAT05/phonoamp?/Allae/Fraimlite/Sonos Connect/TechnicsSL1210 GR/Goldring1006 mm
Re: VTF
The Vertical Tracking Force is best set by ear. And it's likely close to the manufacturer's recommended value. If you have a digital scale, it's often more accurate than the scale on the arm. But as you're using your ears, it doesn't really matter what the real value is, only that you've found it and can find it again.Mikeg wrote:What do you use to measure the VTF? I have a Roksan scale but it differs from my Ittok's. In fact it varies depending on where it is placed on the record.
Start by balancing the arm with the counterweight while tracking force and anti skating dials are set to zero. The tip of the stylus should balance at in-a-groove-in-the-record height. Then set VTF and anti skating slightly below the recommended values. Listen and gradually increase. When optimal, leave the VTF as it is and try increasing the anti skating a little further. On many Linn arms, it's best slightly above the VTF value.
Hi,
Dear Frederik i have a question about soundquality (SQ) related with input capacity phonoamp and Linn Adikt cart.
What would be the difference in SQ between 220, 100, 80 and 68 pF?
Hope to hear from you.
robin
Dear Frederik i have a question about soundquality (SQ) related with input capacity phonoamp and Linn Adikt cart.
What would be the difference in SQ between 220, 100, 80 and 68 pF?
Hope to hear from you.
robin
Naim SuperNait/CD5si/NAT05/phonoamp?/Allae/Fraimlite/Sonos Connect/TechnicsSL1210 GR/Goldring1006 mm
The capacitive load affects the treble response of the cartridge. 220 pF will sound "darker" and 68 pF "brighter".lplover wrote:What would be the difference in SQ between 220, 100, 80 and 68 pF?
What complicates the issue of the capacitive load is that it's not just a number, but also the type of capacitor used. So if one type of capacitor sounds subjectively flat (frequency response flat) at 100 pF with a certain cartridge, a different type of capacitor will sound flat at 120 pF.
Which of the two performs best? That can depend on what best suits the circuit. Trial and error is necessary to make it perfect.
okay my second phonopre amp, a Graham Slee Gram Amp2 SE, has 220 pF. My Naim Stageline N? I have send an email to Naim and they have no info about pF, or not willing to give it!lejonklou wrote:The capacitive load affects the treble response of the cartridge. 220 pF will sound "darker" and 68 pF "brighter".lplover wrote:What would be the difference in SQ between 220, 100, 80 and 68 pF?
What complicates the issue of the capacitive load is that it's not just a number, but also the type of capacitor used. So if one type of capacitor sounds subjectively flat (frequency response flat) at 100 pF with a certain cartridge, a different type of capacitor will sound flat at 120 pF.
Which of the two performs best? That can depend on what best suits the circuit. Trial and error is necessary to make it perfect.
The Graham Slee doesn't sound dark at all with Linn Adikt, The Stageline does more. Will there be a benefit in SQ if i switch the 220 pF for 68 or 80 pF just as it is with you're phonostages?
Naim SuperNait/CD5si/NAT05/phonoamp?/Allae/Fraimlite/Sonos Connect/TechnicsSL1210 GR/Goldring1006 mm
because you have to sum up all the capacity values, from cable to input.lejonklou wrote:Why do you need those values? You still need between 50 and 100 pF on the input of the phono preamp.lplover wrote:does anyone know what the akito mkii tonearm cable capacity is and the external cable?
As I mentioned, this is something that needs to be practically evaluated.
Naim SuperNait/CD5si/NAT05/phonoamp?/Allae/Fraimlite/Sonos Connect/TechnicsSL1210 GR/Goldring1006 mm
Yes you do. The recommended load capacitance for the Adikt is 150-200 pF.
So if you sum up the tonearm and external cable capacitance + the input capacitance it is "better" not to exceed 200 pF. So the input capacitance much be pretty low! With most brands it is about 100 pF for MM.
So if you sum up the tonearm and external cable capacitance + the input capacitance it is "better" not to exceed 200 pF. So the input capacitance much be pretty low! With most brands it is about 100 pF for MM.
Naim SuperNait/CD5si/NAT05/phonoamp?/Allae/Fraimlite/Sonos Connect/TechnicsSL1210 GR/Goldring1006 mm
lplover, you have to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish.
Is it to have the most fun when playing your vinyl, using your turntable equipped with an Adikt?
If yes, then the optimal solution is to get a phono stage that is perfectly suited to Adikt.
If you prefer to tune the cartridge load on your current phono stage(s), then you need to tune them by ear. Use capacitors of different values, I recommend between 50 and 100 pF. Note that different types of capacitors will require slightly different values. And you might end up with different values in different phono stages.
You can also tune the resistive load. Again you need to use your ears, as small changes in resistance gives big differences in sound, although they measure almost identically. I recommend trying values around 47 kohms.
The optimal values can not be calculated. To find them, trial and error is required.
Is it to have the most fun when playing your vinyl, using your turntable equipped with an Adikt?
If yes, then the optimal solution is to get a phono stage that is perfectly suited to Adikt.
If you prefer to tune the cartridge load on your current phono stage(s), then you need to tune them by ear. Use capacitors of different values, I recommend between 50 and 100 pF. Note that different types of capacitors will require slightly different values. And you might end up with different values in different phono stages.
You can also tune the resistive load. Again you need to use your ears, as small changes in resistance gives big differences in sound, although they measure almost identically. I recommend trying values around 47 kohms.
The optimal values can not be calculated. To find them, trial and error is required.