Tune Dem of Headphones

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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AlbannachFE
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by AlbannachFE »

Thank you Tendaberry & ThomasOK - lots of helpful info., much appreciated. :-)

ThomasOK - any plans, in the near future, to further investigate the current Grado range, to see which you feel are the 'stand out' models (they seem to have a lot of 'phones, these days!)?
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by teatime »

lejonklou wrote: 2020-01-16 15:26 Yes, that's what I'm saying.
Amazing. I need to hear them at some point.
lejonklou wrote: 2020-01-16 15:26 [...] a really good headphone amp. Source First - the headphone amp is more important than the headphones. And I know some headphones can change a lot when being driven properly. I haven't got around to doing this yet, although I have a headphone amp design in a box here. I've been busy [...]
I for one will be curious to hear it, should it materialize. :)
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by ThomasOK »

AlbannachFE wrote: 2020-01-17 00:18 Thank you Tendaberry & ThomasOK - lots of helpful info., much appreciated. :-)

ThomasOK - any plans, in the near future, to further investigate the current Grado range, to see which you feel are the 'stand out' models (they seem to have a lot of 'phones, these days!)?
I would like to do that, it is mostly a matter of finding the time. We are going to be moving Overture Audio sometime in the middle of next month so preparations are already getting underway. Then there is also running Nokturne Audio and trying to have some private life too!

But if I get some more snow days where nobody comes in the store, and I'm able to work my way through the backlog of LP12s which rarely seems to shorten, and I get all the latest Lejonklou upgrades done, I'll give it a shot. ;-)
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by AlbannachFE »

ThomasOK wrote: 2020-01-21 20:19
AlbannachFE wrote: 2020-01-17 00:18 Thank you Tendaberry & ThomasOK - lots of helpful info., much appreciated. :-)

ThomasOK - any plans, in the near future, to further investigate the current Grado range, to see which you feel are the 'stand out' models (they seem to have a lot of 'phones, these days!)?
I would like to do that, it is mostly a matter of finding the time. We are going to be moving Overture Audio sometime in the middle of next month so preparations are already getting underway. Then there is also running Nokturne Audio and trying to have some private life too!

But if I get some more snow days where nobody comes in the store, and I'm able to work my way through the backlog of LP12s which rarely seems to shorten, and I get all the latest Lejonklou upgrades done, I'll give it a shot. ;-)
Given that you've so little on your to-do list, I'll expect a detailed report, say, next week? ;-)
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by knoslean »

Just a comment… I have found the Grado SR325e useful over the years, yet underused because of comfort issues. But as I stumbled upon a third party upgrade of the pads, things have changed for the better. Silvian at Beautiful Audio (NZ) makes a variety of pads, he guided me to the merino/leather pad, bass better without overdoing it, and a somewhat smoother treble, still warm mid. The pads also made the Grado comfortable.

I have found the headphone amp with the Majik DSM (2015 make) hard to beat. Recently tried the Lake People G109 (don´t go well with Grado), and also Hagerman Audio Tuba (valve, glows nicely in the dark, excellent reviews, not bad at all but… ), and before that a few more that somehow seems to filter out the swing from the music.
Last edited by knoslean on 2020-01-29 10:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by Ron The Mon »

knoslean wrote: 2020-01-28 21:25 I have found the Grado SR325e useful over the years, yet underused because of comfort issues. But as I stumbled upon a third party upgrade of the pads, things have changed for the better. Silvian at Beautiful Audio (NZ) makes a variety of pads, he guided me to the merino/leather pad, bass better without overdoing it, and a somewhat smoother treble, still warm mid. The pads also made the Grado comfortable.
knoslean,
Can you please provide a link to purchase? I have a set of Grado SR60 which sound really good. I am looking to make them sound good for a longer period of time; over four listening hours or so.

Like many on this thread, my favorite headphones (tune-dem, over the Grado) are the Apple in-ear give-aways. The problem I have is wearing them for extended periods without them falling out. I have to keep touching mine and pushing them in every 15 minutes or so. I sometimes use "ear muffs" to hold them in place. This also improves the bass.

Any advice is welcome.

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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by V.A.MKD »

Hi Ron The Mon,
I have one Apple headphones supplied with iPod, are they same as yours? They have many models ...
I have the same problem wearing them ... :))) must be same as yours ... :)))
Ron The Mon wrote: 2020-01-28 23:06
knoslean wrote: 2020-01-28 21:25 I have found the Grado SR325e useful over the years, yet underused because of comfort issues. But as I stumbled upon a third party upgrade of the pads, things have changed for the better. Silvian at Beautiful Audio (NZ) makes a variety of pads, he guided me to the merino/leather pad, bass better without overdoing it, and a somewhat smoother treble, still warm mid. The pads also made the Grado comfortable.
knoslean,
Can you please provide a link to purchase? I have a set of Grado SR60 which sound really good. I am looking to make them sound good for a longer period of time; over four listening hours or so.

Like many on this thread, my favorite headphones (tune-dem, over the Grado) are the Apple in-ear give-aways. The problem I have is wearing them for extended periods without them falling out. I have to keep touching mine and pushing them in every 15 minutes or so. I sometimes use "ear muffs" to hold them in place. This also improves the bass.

Any advice is welcome.

Ron The Mon
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by knoslean »

Below is a link to Silvian at Beautiful Audio, and I would like to mention: he was giving good advice, asking relevant questions, and listening for the answers, and also did a follow up after I purchased the pads (all indicators of a serious dealer). For anyone who are happy with their Grados, and just would like to tweak the sound, and also get a more comfy gear, I think these pads is worth considering.

https://www.beautifulaudio.biz
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by lejonklou »

Thanks to the kind help of Alex at Concerto Audio in Amsterdam, I'm testing some really interesting headphones. I currently have a collection of pairs of big, serious headphones at my disposal, which is really useful for the development work I'm doing.

I thought I'd rank them in my personal order of preference, but I need to give some of them a little more time. However, the winner of them all is easily picked: Abyss Diana.

Best headphones I've listened to so far. I suspect Concerto thinks so as well, as they put them on their headphone page: https://www.concerto-audio.nl/headphones/
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by Matteo »

Probably also the most expensive ones in the world ... :-)

I own/owned dozens of headphones/headphones amplifier

I’m quite sure that the AK/1’s headphones out with an AKG K92 (45 €) is enough for 99,9% of people (including me)

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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by lejonklou »

Indeed they are expensive, priced like a pair of really good full range loudspeakers!
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by ThomasOK »

Interesting that you are liking the Diana. I haven't heard that model but one of my customers has owned two different pair of the top model Abyss AB-1266. Although physically they are quite cumbersome, they were also quite good. The HIFIMAN HE-1000 we had in the store seemed to be in the same league, for substantially less money. But they were updated twice and are in the price range of the Diana, which I haven't heard. So who knows how they would compare.

I'll be interested to find out what you think about the various models you have on hand.
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by Matteo »

I’m still waiting for a Lejonklou headphones amplifier in a Slipsik case ...

;-)
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by matthias »

lejonklou wrote: 2020-04-20 22:37 I thought I'd rank them in my personal order of preference, but I need to give some of them a little more time. However, the winner of them all is easily picked: Abyss Diana.
Did you by chance listen to the Raal SR1a as well?

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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by lejonklou »

ThomasOK wrote: 2020-04-21 20:47 Interesting that you are liking the Diana. I haven't heard that model but one of my customers has owned two different pair of the top model Abyss AB-1266. Although physically they are quite cumbersome, they were also quite good.
I have the twice as expensive AB-1266 here as well. I think Diana is more musical.
matthias wrote: 2020-04-21 21:51Did you by chance listen to the Raal SR1a as well?
Sorry, those I have never heard.
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by lejonklou »

Matteo wrote: 2020-04-21 21:05 I’m still waiting for a Lejonklou headphones amplifier in a Slipsik case ...
Noted, Matteo. I'll see what I can do.
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by matthias »

lejonklou wrote: 2020-04-21 21:54 Sorry, those I have never heard.
https://raalrequisite.com/sr1a-earfield-monitors/

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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by ThomasOK »

Matteo wrote: 2020-04-20 23:03 Probably also the most expensive ones in the world ... :-)
M.
Not even close. You underestimate how expensive some manufacturers feel everything must be.

https://www.k55.ch/hifiman-shangri-la-h ... ostat.html

Not to be outdone by HIFIMAN, here is a little something from Sennheiser:

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/sennheiser-he-1
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by Matteo »

😵
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by lejonklou »

OK, time for my ranking of the six headphone models I've been testing for a while now.

From best to worst (among these six):
1. Abyss Diana
2. Abyss AB-1266
3. Grado SR125e
4. AKG 550
5. Audio Technica ATH-AD2000X
6. Bose NC700

Among these six, Abyss Diana is easily most musically rewarding to my ears. It's not that they have a particularly flashy sound, but rather that they make me engaged in whatever song I play. Things make sense! They have also been the easiest to compare headphone amps with, as musical nuances appear so right - or not quite right - or simply missing (when the amp sounds veiled). Addictive!

The even more expensive Abyss AB-1266 may be more resolving, but they are less down-to-earth than Diana and simply don't swing as well to my ears. Stefan Gürtler, who is the headphone expert at Concerto Audio said that if AB-1266 performs worse than Diana, the headphone amp is not good enough. While I agree with him that the headphone amp is more important than the headphones (the hierarchy rules), I did try all six headphones with three different amps: Grado RA-1, Naim Headline with NAPSC power supply and my own prototype. My impressions of the differences between AB-1266 and Diana remained the same regardless of which of the three amps I drove them with.

Grado 125e is far below the Abyss headphones, but still a lot of fun. The music is well timed and easy to appreciate. The sound is pretty straightforward and not particularly impressive.

AKG 550 has the most odd sound of these six. Some parts of the frequency spectrum are elevated and other parts feel constrained. They are also closed (but don't isolate you all that much from your surroundings), which likely elevates the odd sound qualities. The music is however well timed and once you forget about the sound (which you will, and much faster than you'd expect) they are quite enjoyable to listen with.

ATH-AD2000X sounds neutral and well balanced. Definitely more so than AKG and perhaps even Grado. They lack some subtlety, however, and don't quite engage me musically as the others do.

Bose NC700, my own pair that I wear daily when walking in traffic and have previously praised, are interestingly the worst performer in this group. There are some things to note here:
1. When I praised them after having done a quick comparison with a few AKG models, I was using an iPad as source and headphone amp. Using a proper source (HAKAI) and headphone amp, the AKG's benefitted much more than the Bose NC700. Put in another way: The NC700's are forgiving.
2. NC700 was connected by cable, but also need to be switched on. When switched off, they sound very thin and annoying, with no bass at all. When switched on, you will notice that there's a LOT of sound processing going on: It straightens the frequency response and adds noise cancellation (very effective isolation from the outside world). If you decrease the noise cancellation (perhaps thinking it might decrease musical performance), you will notice that this isn't really possible. Instead it adds the sounds from the outside, captured by the microphones, to give you an illusion that you're not wearing the headphones. Noise cancellation and heavy signal processing is always present, regardless of setting. And this is likely the reason why they are not particularly musical. Things sound pretty nice, but the level of musical finesse is low and the timing is a little off.
3. NC700 are wireless (Bluetooth) and made for listening on the move, not for musical pleasure in your home. Disconnecting the cable and going wireless, they perform pretty much the same. There's a little more bass and the sound is more "fat" in wireless mode. This may actually be even more forgiving with a lesser source. And the quality of the headphone amp when listening wired didn't make much difference - perhaps because what's really driving the membranes is Bose's own battery powered miniature amp module inside the headphones.
(4. I used to have a pair of Bose QC35 before, on which the noise cancellation was actually possible to switch off. I never had the opportunity to compare these two models, but now I'd like to. I've got a suspicion that the QC35 is more musical than the NC700.)
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by Tendaberry »

Very interesting and thanks for the comprehensive report. Do try to get a listen to the top Grado models like PS-500e/1000e/2000e though.
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by Matteo »

Thanks Fredrik for your informative report.

The AKG 550 are one of my fav (they are quite sensitive to the pads positioning though).

The Naim Headline is very dependant on PSU (NAPSC / Flatcap / Hi-Cap / Supercap).

I spent a lot of money in (esoteric) headphones and amp (especially tubes) and currently own a lot of (budget) closed headphones.

Casually (I needed isolation for environmental reasons), some years ago I found that I love this kind of cans ... cheap and fun.

My suggestions are to try (if you can):

1. Headphones
- AKG K52/K72/K92
- Audio Technica M50X
- Shure SRH840
- BeyerDynamic DT 770 PRO (80 ohm)


2. Amp
- Lake People G103 / G108
- Graham Slee
- Lehmann Audio
- Rupert Neve RNHP
- AudioQuest Dragonfly Black


Regards

M.
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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

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Re: Tune Dem of Headphones

Post by Spannko »

Fredrik,

The SR125e look like a great budget buy for under £140, but how would you say they compare to the Apple plugin buds in terms of sound and musicality?
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