Klimax DS & Akurate DS

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2008-01-11 21:09

Moomintroll wrote:Sources that I trust tell me that the Klimax is an even bigger step on from the Akurate than the Akurate is from the Akurate/Unidisk cdp.

I confirm this!

paolo · Post by **paolo** » 2008-01-12 00:57

Moomintroll wrote:Have you also noticed that Linn are now recommending Ripstation MicroDS to rip CDs instead of EAC? A download is available at http://www.linn.co.uk/ds_software MicroDS seems to be twice as fast as EAC.

Very interesting...I've heard from a trusty source that Linn still doesn't have an official opinion about which is the best between EAC and Ripstation. I've tried to rip some CDs with both and they behave differently for sure. With my CD driver EAC takes an average of 30 mins. to rip a CD in FLAC while Ripstation keeps only 4 mins. The files they create (both FLAC) are also different, Ripstation infact creates always bigger files than EAC for the same song.
I'm waiting my Klimax DS for the next week so I don't know really which one of the two programs (if any) makes the more accurate (better sounding?) files....

Anybody of you have tried?

Paolo

jewa · Post by **jewa** » 2008-01-12 22:20

It should be the same, flac is flac. The difference is the compression, it takes the encoder (ripping software) more time to make the file smaller. In flac you can set the compression from 1-8, where 1 is fastest with a large file, and 8 smallest file but with the longest encoding time. But when playing you will have the same output in both cases.

Linnofil · Post by **Linnofil** » 2008-01-13 02:48

When I listened to the DS players at my dealer we tried two different ripping software. One I cant remember the name of, but it wasn't ripstation, that had a FLAC converter integrated. The other was EAC and the usual FLAC converter. The first one was fast and was better in getting album covers etc. EAC was slower, but got a smaller FLAC file.

The big thing for me, apart from the awesome DS performance, was that the files sounded so different! When I heard the big difference in the files (that was supposed to be the same) I realized that there is still a lot to learn in the area of playing files. Why is there a difference? Is it the compression to FLAC? Bug's in the FLAC software? What we didn't try (lack of time) was trying the WAV files before compression. That would have been interesting. Both software reported 100% correct rip. The EAC rip was much better!

My recommendation for any DS buyer out there would be to wait for the delivery of the DS before any rips are made. That way you can compare different ripping software for yourself before ripping an entire collection.

The Akurate DS was a really really nice player. Very good and clearly better than the Akurate CD. I listened to it for an hour or so before we swapped it for the Klimax DS. The Akurate really impressed on all material where I have the same music on CD. On Abba and Bob Dylan, music that I listen to on LP, the Akurate DS was not as impressive.

Swapping it for the Klimax DS was a strange experience. It reminded me of when I first heard the Lingo. The music changed a lot, and the sound also. I think it is a very different presentation of the sound, mainly because it is so much musically better than the Akurate DS. We played a few songs on the Klimax DS and then tried to go back to the Akurate DS. It was like a shock! We had to go back and fourth a few times just to get a reality check! We almost thought that something happened to the Akurate DS during the 15 minutes of playing the Klimax DS! It's very rare to here something that good (Akurate) getting totally destroyed. Sadly I can't afford the Klimax DS. Very sadly... But I can still win it on monday!

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2008-01-13 06:37

I'm not that surpriced.
DS has to read/decode the files in real-time.
I guess both DS units have been developed using EAC...

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » 2008-01-13 10:52

please see:
http://www.digitalsources.info/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7

What I find most interesting is that 90 to 95% of the two is identical! There is just the output stage (and most obviously the case) which are different all other parts are claimed to be identical - even the DSP programming.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2008-01-13 12:43

Anyone know if that German mag use Tune Dem for evaluation.
Or if they rate musicallity high?

bwt, how do they rate CD12?

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2008-01-13 16:31

Music Lover wrote:Anyone know if that German mag use Tune Dem for evaluation.

Definitely not.

Or if they rate musicallity high?

Yes and no. Actually they rate "musicality", but only if it's there. Otherwise they rate "sound" or "bass" or "highs" or... So even two total different sounding products can get exactly the same score. The major criteria seems to be the price. Stereoplay is not something like Stereophile. IMHO it's more some kind of boulevard magazine

Axel

jewa · Post by **jewa** » 2008-01-14 13:38

Linnofil: you need to make the flac from the same wave-file, to compare. But the flac part of the software should be the same in both cases.

paolo · Post by **paolo** » 2008-01-14 16:33

Jewa,
with regard to Ripstation and EAC, I'm sure that given the same song on a CD, they don't create the same FLAC file. Ripstation always creates bigger files and they sound louder than the ones created by EAC - maybe it's just a matter of "normalization". I Still don't know anything about how they sound though...

Paolo

jewa · Post by **jewa** » 2008-01-16 17:58

yesterday I made a test: I ripped the hardcore way (terminal mode) with cdparanoia on my Mac. I then converted with the highest compression (8) using flac in terminal mode. I also imported wave file with Itunes (with error correction) with the same results as with cdparanoia.

I then converted the same audio with EAC and also ripped directly from the cd.

The results: using flac manually I got a flac file which was even smaller than from EAC. I then converted all flac files back to wav, and the files where exactly the same.

I saw there was a normalize option in EAC, but why would you use that?

As I've said earlier flac is a totally different thing than MP3 since it is lossless.

jeffrey · Post by **jeffrey** » 2008-01-23 20:55

Hi Steve,

I just re-read your post and noticed you use squeezeboxes in your system. So do I, and I like the slimserver software with browser interface. It appears to be fairly robust as you are able to build and save playlists.

What hardware/software/device are you currently using to access your audio library? I am still trying to figure this part of the equation out. I am worried that I will have a great sounding source [akurate ds] but the interface will be detrimental to the experience.

On a related note, I read somewhere online that the new Apple 1tb 'time capsule' drive will be able to run slimserver software. So maybe this could be an option to the Netgear NAS solution?

Jeffrey.

poppop · Post by **poppop** » 2008-01-24 19:29

Hi Jeffrey

Im not using squeezeboxes yet. It was a thought to use them in other rooms in the house as a cheaper alternative to the DS. But as I read i dont belive that the squeezbox will work with twonkymedia??

However, there are other players recommended on the twonkymedia site that look like they will do the job.

To be sure it was easy to get everthing working Im using all the gear/software suggested by Linn. EAC/twonkymedia/Linn gui. The Netgear NV+ 1 TB NAS is on order. At the minute Im using a 250gig hardrive via router and netgear network switch to the DS and other rooms.

We are having difficulty getting the pda/laptop to work wirelessly. Everything works fine when hardwired. The suggestion being that the problem lies with the router?? But Im getting into areas where I have to leave it with the "netwok" guy!?

Not sure if this is really answering your question!

Steve.

Pediatrik · Post by **Pediatrik** » 2008-01-25 09:44

Is there anybody out there using or considering using DS with Mac?!

I'm struggling with the fact that LINN GUI etc are .NET-applications, not suited for Mac-users. I've found this UPnP-application that might work: http://www.cidero.com/mediaController.html, but what I really want is the possibility to control the DS with an iPod touch, preferably with an application incorporating functions like Apple:s beatiful Cover Flow:
"With Cover Flow on iPod touch, flick through your music to find the album you want to hear. When you do, just tap the cover to flip it over and display a track list. Another tap starts the music. Even view the lyrics while you're listening to the track."

http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/features.html

Azazello · Post by **Azazello** » 2008-01-25 19:21

Pediatrik wrote: what I really want is the possibility to control the DS with an iPod touch

That would really be something! Ipod touch is soooo cool.

paolo · Post by **paolo** » 2008-01-25 19:27

Pediatrik wrote:Is there anybody out there using or considering using DS with Mac?!

I'm struggling with the fact that LINN GUI etc are .NET-applications, not suited for Mac-users. I've found this UPnP-application that might work: http://www.cidero.com/mediaController.html, but what I really want is the possibility to control the DS with an iPod touch, preferably with an application incorporating functions like Apple:s beatiful Cover Flow

Hello Pediatrik, the Cidero application works well with the DS, I find it more user friendly than the Linn GUI and better at displaying and browsing the library trees. BTW, it cannot show the cover arts.

About ripping, I've compared some flac files ripped with both Ripsattion and EAC (Linn profile). The files ripped with EAC sound better by a good margin. Moreover, I've tried ripping with EAC using two different PCs (and consequently CD drivers). The result is not the same, infact the flac files created are different by a bit-to-bit comparison. They sound different too, though the difference is smaller than that between EAC and Ripstation. The CD driver which behaves better seems to be the older one, it is both faster and rips better sounding files.
We have still to learn a lot I fear.....

Paolo

hcl · Post by **hcl** » 2008-01-26 11:48

(Hi everyone and especially Fredrik for (in my opinion) your waluable contribution to the music reproduction community!)

Is it possible that the difference (between different rip:s) depends on how fast the DS gets enough buffered data i.e. smaller files are faster to distriute especially on slower connections. The large buffer time (8 secs as someone reported) seem to be a very large margin just to ensure no drop-outs. I would think there are some other reason for this large buffer i.e. the possibility to do some signal processing in order to reduce gitter induced distorsion. This i entirely my own speculations!!! Maybe someone can comment? If this is the case it would also make the difference much larger for the first few seconds of payback as it is during this time the buffer bulds up thus limiting the possibility to do the processing to its full potential. This would also explain why Linn emphasize the requirement on high bandwith which otherwise would not be that important.

HCL

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2008-01-26 13:02

According to my tests (removing the cat-5 cable from Klimax DS) the buffer is just 1-2s. That using CD resolution files.

hcl · Post by **hcl** » 2008-01-27 09:18

I think it would be most appropriate if the dealers and/or Linn would clearify theese issues!

Json · Post by **Json** » 2008-01-27 09:27

It's great that it is possible to use different control software with the DS:es, but does anyone know if it is also possible to use different media server software?

For instance, would it be possible to use slimserver with a DS?

jeffrey · Post by **jeffrey** » 2008-01-29 23:37

Wondering the same thing about slimserver and Akurate DS ... guess I'll find out when I buy the ADS.

Moomintroll · Post by **Moomintroll** » 2008-01-29 23:50

No, the DS's only use TwonkyMedia.

'Troll

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » 2008-01-30 01:58

Sorry I have to disagreew ith Troll:

You can use ANY UPnP Media Server with the DS. That is one of the advantages of Linn's open approach.

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2008-01-30 02:34

I think that both of you are right, to some extent :)

The DS should work with any UPnP media server (Twonky or a different option)...but SlimServer is not UPnP compatible!

However, it is possible to use a Squeezebox with a UPnP server rather than SlimServer, but this option is slightly less user-friendly than SlimServer based systems, IMHO.

I don't yet have a DS, but I do have a Squeezebox and also a Snazio network video player. I run Twonky on my network for serving HD video files, but found it somewhat of a pain for music when compared to SlimServer, so I actually run that too. Both servers point at the same collection of music files. The only problem encountered was conflicts for the server port, so I had to set Twonky to run on 9001 rather than 9000.

jeffrey · Post by **jeffrey** » 2008-01-30 06:18

Oh no. Not what I wanted to hear. On first glance I thought the Twonky interface was kinda clunky; granted I haven't used it extensively. I ran it on my desktop for an hour or so then trashed it out of fear. Fear it would take control of my media server and be impossible to deinstall from my mac. I definitely prefer slimserver. What am I gonna do...

rowlandhills wrote:but SlimServer is not UPnP compatible!

Klimax DS & Akurate DS

There has been a comparison test of Akurate & Klimax DS