Hello everybody,
we know that Linn for several years have repeatedly stated that the screws supplied to fasten the armboard to the LP12 subchassis were made that way - small and short - for absolutely intentional and substantiated reasons: they guaranteed exactly the right amount of coupling between those two crucial pieces. Any attempt to use other screws - pass through or bigger or longer - would have inevitably worsened the sound.
I've sincerely never doubted this statement was true.
Well, it happens that the last two (new) LP12s I had set up were supplied with considerably longer armboard screws. They are so long that in some cases once tightened they can produce a corresponding visible swell on the upper side of the armboard. Moreover their greater lenght and thus overall volume cause the armboard to more pronouncedly swell also around the screw holes - even though the holes have been pre-drilled in the usual way.
Of course maybe that after all these years Linn has finally discovered that longer screws make the Circused LP12 sound better. But I have some doubts. I sincerely fear they make the coupling between armboard and subchassis less even and secure, probably causing the LP12 to sound worse.
I wonder if this change is intentional or just due to casuality. Has anybody of you tried this new arrangement and compared with the old one? What's your opinion?
Paolo
Circus armboard screws now longer. Why?
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Re: Circus armboard screws now longer. Why?
AFAIK the armboard screws got longer as the armboard itself has changed from 2-part-sandwich to 3-part-sandwich design. So the shorter screws should be used with the old armboard type, the longer ones with the new one.
Axel
Axel
Paolo,
I have run into the longer screws you mentioned. Interestingly, we also received two tables with the longer screws about a year ago but then the most recent tables went back to the shorter screws. I never had a chance to try and do a comparison and since the tables reverted to the shorter screws I figured it was just an aberration. Before the screws reverted back I was going to try and get a set and try them on my table but then they changed back and also the Keel came out and I lost interest in the whole thing.
I have to disagree with Axel. I have armboard screws from LP12s both old and new, slotted and Posidriv and all except for the sets that came with those two tables have been the same length. I also ordered some spare armboard screws from Linn after I saw the first longer ones and I was sent the short ones.
I have run into the longer screws you mentioned. Interestingly, we also received two tables with the longer screws about a year ago but then the most recent tables went back to the shorter screws. I never had a chance to try and do a comparison and since the tables reverted to the shorter screws I figured it was just an aberration. Before the screws reverted back I was going to try and get a set and try them on my table but then they changed back and also the Keel came out and I lost interest in the whole thing.
I have to disagree with Axel. I have armboard screws from LP12s both old and new, slotted and Posidriv and all except for the sets that came with those two tables have been the same length. I also ordered some spare armboard screws from Linn after I saw the first longer ones and I was sent the short ones.
I have never seen a 2-part sandwich armboard and don't believe it exists. Only 1 part (the first and really old version that was painted black) and 3 part (the most common version of MDF with one hard, black layer on each side).sommerfee wrote:AFAIK the armboard screws got longer as the armboard itself has changed from 2-part-sandwich to 3-part-sandwich
I have run into the long armboard screws but have not compared them sonically. Just like Paolo I am suspicious. The short screws were in the past said to have been chosen because they sounded good, even though they were difficult to tighten properly - especially if the holes in the armboards were getting worn. The longer screws are perhaps meant to be more practical, but I wonder if there has been a musical evalutation as well.
Axel, Thomas, Fredrik,
thank you for you replies.
What you say Thomas reinforces my suspicions about the fact that the longer screws have been supplied for a fortuity more than a conscious choice. The two LP12s where I've found the long screws are very recent ones so maybe that Linn has not completely reverted to short screws but is still randomly supplying both types.
That said I remain with the strong feeling that short screws are the way to go for the best sound - coupling is better cause armboard surface remains more even.
Paolo
thank you for you replies.
What you say Thomas reinforces my suspicions about the fact that the longer screws have been supplied for a fortuity more than a conscious choice. The two LP12s where I've found the long screws are very recent ones so maybe that Linn has not completely reverted to short screws but is still randomly supplying both types.
Interesting point Axel, I can confirm that the two pieces sandwich does exist Fredrik, I have two armboards like this and I think they are at least 2 or 3 years old. Moreover one of the two new LP12s I've set up lastly have 3 pieces sandwich armboard while the other one - supplied with a Rega hole - is a two pieces one (both have long screws). So if Linn intends the long screws for the 3 layer armboards they nevertheless supply screws type in a random way.AFAIK the armboard screws got longer as the armboard itself has changed from 2-part-sandwich to 3-part-sandwich design. So the shorter screws should be used with the old armboard type, the longer ones with the new one.
That said I remain with the strong feeling that short screws are the way to go for the best sound - coupling is better cause armboard surface remains more even.
Paolo
I am not talking about Rega drilled or non-drilled armboards, because I almost never use them (perhaps once in >100 LP12 setups). But the standard Linn laminated armboards - do they exist in several versions? That was news to me!paolo wrote:I can confirm that the two pieces sandwich does exist Fredrik, I have two armboards like this and I think they are at least 2 or 3 years old
I'd really appreciate pictures that can clear up the fog that is surrounding me.
I'm sorry for the delay, but it took me some time to find the old armboard of mine... But here they come:
Old Armboard
New Armboard
I hope someone can see the difference on the photos.
The "new" one was introduced early last year (round about 3/2006) and at least my dealer was told by Linn Germany that new, longer screws needs to be used for the "new" armboard (and so he did).
The update was not a WOW one but made me think that the update was worth the money. Just a little change in tune-dem, and a more "relaxed" sound.
Old Armboard
New Armboard
I hope someone can see the difference on the photos.
The "new" one was introduced early last year (round about 3/2006) and at least my dealer was told by Linn Germany that new, longer screws needs to be used for the "new" armboard (and so he did).
The update was not a WOW one but made me think that the update was worth the money. Just a little change in tune-dem, and a more "relaxed" sound.
This is quite interesting. Although it came as a surprise to me when I read the last post, I can confirm at least part of what sommerfee has observed and was told.
The most recent LP12 we received came in shortly after the introduction of the Keel and belongs to the owner of our store. It was purchased with a Keel, Ekos SE and Trampolin2 so the armboard and screws that came with it are still in the original box. I just checked the box and the armboard does look the same as the "three-layer" one in the photograph. The three armboard screws that are packed with it are indeed the longer ones.
What I find confusing about this is that I received two new turntables early last year that had the longer screws and then a few months later received one with the shorter screws. And I don't remember any of them featuring the "three-layer" armboard. I suppose I could have missed it but as many LP12s as I have worked on I would think I would have noticed. Also I have yet to recieve any Cirkus kits with the long armboard screws even though I have installed a number of them over the last two years - the most recent in late June of this year.
It would certainly be nice for Linn to communicate this type of information to us so we'd know what is going on, but I suppose that is too much to ask. :(
The most recent LP12 we received came in shortly after the introduction of the Keel and belongs to the owner of our store. It was purchased with a Keel, Ekos SE and Trampolin2 so the armboard and screws that came with it are still in the original box. I just checked the box and the armboard does look the same as the "three-layer" one in the photograph. The three armboard screws that are packed with it are indeed the longer ones.
What I find confusing about this is that I received two new turntables early last year that had the longer screws and then a few months later received one with the shorter screws. And I don't remember any of them featuring the "three-layer" armboard. I suppose I could have missed it but as many LP12s as I have worked on I would think I would have noticed. Also I have yet to recieve any Cirkus kits with the long armboard screws even though I have installed a number of them over the last two years - the most recent in late June of this year.
It would certainly be nice for Linn to communicate this type of information to us so we'd know what is going on, but I suppose that is too much to ask. :(
The fog is lifting... thanks Axel. I thought you were talking about the laminate and the MDF, but the numbering was all about the MDF part.
The new armboard could either be a conscious improvement or just a change of manufacturer and then it happened to become slightly different.
There is still no clear relation to the longer screws, which came before the slightly different armboard, if I understand it correctly.
The new armboard could either be a conscious improvement or just a change of manufacturer and then it happened to become slightly different.
There is still no clear relation to the longer screws, which came before the slightly different armboard, if I understand it correctly.